From ziplock@yabbs Sun Nov 8 18:01:31 1992 From: ziplock@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Sun Nov 8 18:01:31 1992 In message re: @ & econ, optick said: > The Americans did not act as they should have; Offensive and Brutal. > The US Army fought basically a Defensive war, never launching any mjor > offensives into North-Vietnam. A mistake that I believe will never be > repeated by the American Army. Get a clue, man, we had *major* offensives into NV. We bombed them into the fucking stone age up in Hanoi. You all are just talking about *ground* offensives. By your standard we had no offensives in Iraq either. The fact that the NVA and the guerilla army were still able to kick the US Army's ass in _high_style_ in the face of insane military, civilian and infrastructure damage is a tribute purely to the conquest of ideology over technology. ˙ From mute@yabbs Mon Nov 9 01:43:42 1992 From: mute@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Mon Nov 9 01:43:42 1992 If I remember correctly, the NVA did not kick the US army in high style. The NVA suffered more casualties than we did, but they just didn't give up. I don't know what the ratios were, but it was more than 1 NVA:1 US. Vellmont From ziplock@yabbs Mon Nov 9 04:20:34 1992 From: ziplock@yabbs To: mute@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Mon Nov 9 04:20:34 1992 In message re: @ & econ, mute said: > If I remember correctly, the NVA did not kick the US army in high style. > The NVA suffered more casualties than we did, but they just didn't give > up. I don't know what the ratios were, but it was more than 1 NVA:1 US. Hmm, well guess it depends on how you consider "high style". I certainly agree they suffered massive casualties. Total losses for the Vietnamese population (not NVA, necessarily -- including civilians) have been estimated between one and three million dead. Naturally our 50,000 don't really compare to that. On the other hand, they won against really incredible odds, using mostly weapons that they stole from their enemies, without air support or chemical warfare, both of which were heavily used by their opponents. They furthermore defeated not one but two foreign armies -- ours and the French before us. I consider that quite a victory. ˙ From kapt-k@yabbs Wed Nov 18 14:47:32 1992 From: kapt-k@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: boosh Date: Wed Nov 18 14:47:32 1992 Imagine what it would be like to be president. Wouldn't it suck? Getting put in a room with a few agents to get your asshole and other cavities searched before doing ANYTHING? Before going on TV, rehearsing every single move you're going to make, every word, evrything. The president is a neurotic fiend. I saw him on TV the other day, escorting his wife onto a plane. He was wearing a suit that looked like retirement clothes since he lost the race. He held out his hand as a gesture of letting Barbara get on the plane first. Then he followed her in. That took about 30 seconds. It probably took about 3 hours to prepare and rehearse in a little room. It's sick. From optick@yabbs Thu Nov 19 02:40:43 1992 From: optick@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Thu Nov 19 02:40:43 1992 If the NVA operated with weapons stolen from the enemy, Then how do you explain the 500,000+ AK weapons that made their way into Vietname, Or the sudden appearance of large amounts of RPG rockets? How about those Russian pilots that ended up in Vietnam, How did they get there? Bombing is not considered part of offensice actions. It's what is called Strategic warfare where the object is to destroy factories, population centers, and fixed military targets. Offensive actions involve pushing back armies and capturing targest and masses of land. From htoaster@yabbs Thu Nov 19 08:39:51 1992 From: htoaster@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Thu Nov 19 08:39:51 1992 The problem with strategic bombing is that it usaully isn't so strategic (look at the gulf war were we ended up killing more civilians than military). Yes, it can be hard to decipher who is who, but that doesn't give anyone the right to just kill people because they are with military personel. In broader terms (ie, offense and defense), strategic bombing certinally falls into a sick offense. htoaster From charta@yabbs Wed Nov 25 12:54:07 1992 From: charta@yabbs To: bricks@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Wed Nov 25 12:54:07 1992 All *real* anarchists are against capitalism, there are a few "wannabees" who thinks anarchy is throwing bombs who maybe say they want capitalism. Some of them (us?) wants "Marxistanarchy".. From ziplock@yabbs Wed Nov 25 14:22:22 1992 From: ziplock@yabbs To: charta@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Wed Nov 25 14:22:22 1992 In message re: @ & econ, charta said: > All *real* anarchists are against capitalism, there are a few "wannabees" > who thinks anarchy is throwing bombs who maybe say they want capitalism. > Some of them (us?) wants "Marxistanarchy".. The problem is defining what a "real" anarchist is since they always attempt to defy definition by any means at their disposal. Noam Chomsky, for example, says "all anarchists must also be socialists" but there are plenty of anarcho-capitalists out there, ready to defend a fundamentally libertarian ideology. ˙ From uufnord@yabbs Wed Nov 25 22:38:05 1992 From: uufnord@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: "real" Date: Wed Nov 25 22:38:05 1992 defining anarchy? BLAH! I don't want to be an anarchist because that would mean I'd have to belong to something.. or as my friend Pete says, I'm not an anarchist because all anarchists want to get rid of (or drastically change) the current government. I don't believe in the government, so I guess I can't be an anarchist. Just thought I'd share those two thoughts.. On a lighter note, I got to hear RMS Richard Stallman talk about his version of "leftist anarchism". It's such a shame, too.. I have lost much respect for Dr. Stallman.. Peace and Cooperation? Yuck! The really funny thing during his talk (which was on behalf of the LPF for the whole Software Patent thing) was that he described all manners of idiocy in bureacracy(?) currently going on in lthe legislation of software field, and he seemed to have a wonderful little plan which enabled him to wipe away all these things, by throwing more bureacracy at it.. IT was good. Y'all shoulda been there.. From buddha@yabbs Thu Nov 26 01:09:26 1992 From: buddha@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re: Capitalism vs. anarchy Date: Thu Nov 26 01:09:26 1992 Capitalism is IMPOSSIBLE under a TRUE anarchy, as capitalism relies on laws which protect private property. If LAW is abolished, there can be no capitalism... -Boo From charta@yabbs Fri Nov 27 09:42:53 1992 From: charta@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Fri Nov 27 09:42:53 1992 Don't know how to quote...Can somebody tell me..? Hmm, "anarcho capitalists", my opinion is that they ain't anarchists, it's just a popular (right word?) name for liberals.. (Damn, my English is bad) Well, do you think that anarchy is an utopia? From charta@yabbs Fri Nov 27 09:46:23 1992 From: charta@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Fri Nov 27 09:46:23 1992 Are there many socialists in USA? Are there any socialistic parties? From ziplock@yabbs Sat Nov 28 03:26:54 1992 From: ziplock@yabbs To: charta@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Sat Nov 28 03:26:54 1992 In message re: @ & econ, charta said: > Are there many socialists in USA? Are there any socialistic parties? Too many to count. There are "back to M-L" groups like Workers World, anarcho-syndicalists like the IWW, Trotskyites like SWP, RWL, etc., Maoists like Maoist Internationalist Movement, and the RCP (hah!), democratic socialists like DSA and the Greens (sort of). You name it. ˙ From htoaster@yabbs Sat Nov 28 13:59:17 1992 From: htoaster@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Sat Nov 28 13:59:17 1992 To quote use the editor joe (you can't quote with the internal editor, I jut haven't taken the time to hack it out). To select joe, hit j)oe from the config menu. It only works with vt100 compataible terminals though (very annoying). As for socialist parties, there are a lot of them, but nothing that widely known (ie, something that more than 50% of the people would have heard of, all though in the us, 50%of america might not know what socialism is either). htoaster From ziplock@yabbs Sun Nov 29 14:46:14 1992 From: ziplock@yabbs To: htoaster@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Sun Nov 29 14:46:14 1992 In message re: @ & econ, htoaster said: > As for socialist parties, there are a lot of them, but nothing that > widely known (ie, something that more than 50% of the people would have > heard of, all though in the us, 50%of america might not know what > socialism is either). Well the IWW (Wobblies) are quite well known among unionists, which is a pretty big chunk of people, and when people say "The Communist Party" they are usually thinking about the CPUSA, which was the main target of the House Unamerican Activitees Committee investigations spurred on by Joe McCarthy in the '50s. As it turns out, the CPUSA wiggled out of a lot of charges regarding foreign contacts (with the Soviet Union) when many of those we have now found out were true -- the CPUSA got a lot of money from the Soviets, though not very recently. All that got uncovered after the Soviet government collapsed and all sorts of records were made public. ˙ From ziplock@yabbs Wed Dec 16 21:43:27 1992 From: ziplock@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: gathering Date: Wed Dec 16 21:43:27 1992 From bbrigade@world.std.com Wed Dec 16 21:28:13 1992 MID-ATLANTIC REGIONAL ANARCHIST GATHERING 1993 P.O. BOX 31889 PHILADELPHIA, PA 19104 Hi, We're organizing a Mid-Atlantic (VA, WV, PA, DC, DE, MD, NJ, NY) Regional Anarchist Gathering in Philadelphia in the Summer of 1993. We're planning four days of workshops, networking, music, schmoozing and cruising. Depending on the availability of space possible dates (all Fridays through Mondays) are July 16-19, July 23-26, July 30- Aug 2, or Aug 6-9. We want to be in touch with as many folks in the region as possible, and we need your help. Right now we're compiling a mailing list and looking for financial support. we'd like to find people willing to be local contacts who can copy & distribute flyers and posters and generally let other people know what is going on. We also need people to organize nasty, grungy rock 'n roll shows and send us the money. Or, if you're in a band who would like to play a benefit we organize, let us know that, too. Of course if you can come by cash in any other ingenious ways, feel free to send it along. Our organizing meetings are on the first Sunday of every month at 12:30 pm at 4722 Baltimore Ave, Philadelphia. for more information, call Wooden Shoe Books at (215)569-2477. -Philadelphia Troublemakers and Anarchists (PTA) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please fill out this form & send it back along with any information you think might interest us. __ Add me to the mailing list. Add these people: _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ __ I want to be a local contact. __ I'm interested in coordinating a workshop so send me info when you get to that. __ I'm sending you money because I know how expensive mailing stuff is. By the way, here are some stamps, too. (Checks or M.O.s should be made payable to Wooden Shoes Books. Please mark on it that it is for the Gathering.) ========================================================================== This electronic version re-created courtesy of the Boston Anarchist Drinking Brigade. Please download, print and distrubute. thanks, blaine ========================================================================== ˙ From htoaster@yabbs Sat Jan 2 09:22:37 1993 From: htoaster@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: new pres Date: Sat Jan 2 09:22:37 1993 Bill is going to be inagurated in a few days... htoaster ˙ From charta@yabbs Mon Jan 4 12:55:04 1993 From: charta@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re: new pres Date: Mon Jan 4 12:55:04 1993 Yo, I wonder if there are any socialistic computer groups somewhere in the world, and how can i get in touch with them? From silicon@yabbs Mon Jan 4 16:38:38 1993 From: silicon@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: gathering Date: Mon Jan 4 16:38:38 1993 I will be there. Wooden shoe books is cool. I don't know about making any other comittments though, right now. - silicon - From ducky@yabbs Mon Jan 4 21:30:16 1993 From: ducky@yabbs To: htoaster@yabbs Subject: re: new pres Date: Mon Jan 4 21:30:16 1993 heheh. . .apparently if you act fast by calling your congressman or senator, YOU TOO can be the rpoud possesor of tickets to the inauguration itself on the Capitol lawn. . .heheh. . .since it looks like i'll be in dc at the time, mebbe i'l try & get tickets & then see if they let me in dressed completely inappropriately. . .somehow i don't think this is the sort of thing you'd wanna make too much of a scene at tho. . .the SS tend to be a bit touchy about places where the prez is gonna be. . .go figger . . . anyone got any idea for creative anarchy at the inauguration? lately i've been feeling kinda drained and not living up to my creative potential. . . KD From marquis@yabbs Tue Jan 5 07:45:11 1993 From: marquis@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: various Date: Tue Jan 5 07:45:11 1993 Well, i am an Anarchist. Not the type that builds exploding flashlights or tortures the neibours dog. More in the tradition of Proudhon and Kropotkin. Blaines post looks sort of interesting. NON SERVIUM! ...Md ˙ From tyrant@yabbs Fri Jan 15 23:07:05 1993 From: tyrant@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: gathering Date: Fri Jan 15 23:07:05 1993 In message gathering, ziplock said: > what is going on. We also need people to organize nasty, grungy rock 'n > to play a benefit we organize, let us know that, too. Of course if you > Our organizing meetings are on the first Sunday of every month at 12:30 Boy, a lot of mention of organizing an Anarchist meeting. hehhe. ˙ From ziplock@yabbs Wed Jan 20 11:20:57 1993 From: ziplock@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: Mailing list Date: Wed Jan 20 11:20:57 1993 Watch for a new radical-left mailing list starting up in the next month, to be announced in places like alt.activism, alt.society.anarchy, and alt.society.revolution. Myself and many others are getting sick of the Liberal dogshit that is ruling misc.activism.progressive and alt.activism and we're going to do something about it. Watch for alt.politics.radical-left, a new unmoderated group, to be proposed in alt.config by the Autonome Forum dudes maybe today or tomorrow as well. zip PS: direct queries to pauls@umich.edu˙ From exavious@yabbs Sun Feb 7 14:17:56 1993 From: exavious@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sun Feb 7 14:17:56 1993 Hey, I don't know if this base is only for left wing anarchy. If it is, I apologize for taking space. Otherwise I would like to introduce myself. I am Baron Exavious and I am a Republican anarchist. I commit anarchy to give me power. I LOVE POWER!!! E mail me at c_s01159@appstate.edu or change the end to conrad.appstate.edu. The machine has temper tantrums. From htoaster@yabbs Sun Feb 7 23:25:47 1993 From: htoaster@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sun Feb 7 23:25:47 1993 Hey, no problem about being a repub anarchist...in fact, this is really just a political base, just wanted a name to get some people posting... htoaster ˙ From buddha@yabbs Thu Feb 11 07:20:47 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Thu Feb 11 07:20:47 1993 OK- tried to write back to exavious, but he's passed on in the world. I was just wondering how one 'commits anarchy' to 'get power'. Power usually implies control over people which is anything but anarchy... -Boo From optick@yabbs Sat Feb 13 00:31:23 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: htoaster@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Sat Feb 13 00:31:23 1993 Why on earth would anyone support a dead old idea like Socialism??? In essence you belive that YOU should work at the factory, but the government should own it. Or You own it, but the government gets all the profits while you get all the work of just running it. Optikal From buddha@yabbs Sat Feb 13 13:53:02 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Sat Feb 13 13:53:02 1993 See the idea is that since the gov't runs it, all the money goes back into running the country, and benefitting society, rather than just into some old fat guys coke habit... Of course, it won't work because the beaurocracy required to set up a socialist system would waste more money on useless salaries than would be made through profits... -Boo From optick@yabbs Sat Feb 13 23:19:52 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: uufnord@yabbs Subject: re: "real" Date: Sat Feb 13 23:19:52 1993 If you do not believe in government, then why do you find yourself standing in line at the DMV to get license plates for your car? (if you have one). You can disbelieve something but that cannot keep it from exsisting. It is there wherether you accept it or not. From optick@yabbs Sat Feb 13 23:30:47 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: re: Capitalism vs. anarchy Date: Sat Feb 13 23:30:47 1993 I do not believe there will be capitalism under Anarchy, It would be impossible. But I do believe it would be replaced by a system of 'Feudalism' and 'Monarchy'. I like the idea of 'Feudalism' and 'Monarchy'. From optick@yabbs Sat Feb 13 23:33:45 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Sat Feb 13 23:33:45 1993 The DEMOCRATIC party is nothing more than a Socialist party itself. Just look at all the no good commie pinko bastards like Ron Brown, who run it. From optick@yabbs Sat Feb 13 23:42:06 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: charta@yabbs Subject: re: new pres Date: Sat Feb 13 23:42:06 1993 Hmmm... I once wrote a textfile on Techniocracies. A Techniocracy is where you apply the theories of government to running a BBS. In other words, If you were running a BBS under a Socialist-Techniocracy then you would be running it like a socialist regime. A techniocracy designed after the U.S. would have a President (SysOp), A vice-President (Co-SysOp), A congress, a senate, a judicial system, etc... I think a BBS ran in such a way would be interesting for user participation. From optick@yabbs Sat Feb 13 23:45:45 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: Mailing list Date: Sat Feb 13 23:45:45 1993 AH! So you are a right-wing Socialist?? From optick@yabbs Sat Feb 13 23:50:59 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sat Feb 13 23:50:59 1993 To Exavious; I am right-wing Anarchist myself... well sort of. I am an advocate of feudalism, Some have called me a Fascist but I am not a rascist. I love to make assaults on left-wing factions every time I get the chance! Optical From optick@yabbs Sun Feb 14 00:06:16 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sun Feb 14 00:06:16 1993 That is why I believe the end result of anarchy results in feudalism. When a government falls, the state it represented will break apart and fragment into smaller states ruled central powers (kingdoms). If the U.S. were to break up and fragment tommorow, some place like New York city could become the 'Kingdom of New York' being ruled by the former Mayor who is now Chancellor Bradly. I believe that one day feudalism may return. From buddha@yabbs Sun Feb 14 14:19:05 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sun Feb 14 14:19:05 1993 Re: Anarchy --> Feudalism: I don't think that, if there was some huge political collapse, present politicians would hold any power. The only thing that ensures the Mayor power over his people now is a judicial system which allows him to punish people who break laws. If that judicial system were destroyed, he wouldn't have any more power. I think power would fall into the hands of people who could enforce their beliefs by beating others down... Then they'd become mercenaries, who would be hired to protect individuals' private property in return for the sharing of the property... In effect, the mercenaries would become lords (because they'd control part of the land) under a king (the landowner who hired them all). Then, I suppose, the mercenaries would grant land to people in return for their working the land that the mercenaries were hired to protec (in NY, I guess the mercenaries would hire people to clean the streets, etc) Now is that monarchy? feudalism? both? -Boo From ziplock@yabbs Sun Feb 14 23:05:57 1993 From: ziplock@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: Mailing list Date: Sun Feb 14 23:05:57 1993 In message re: Mailing list, optick said: > AH! So you are a right-wing Socialist?? eat me, cop.˙ From ziplock@yabbs Sun Feb 14 23:07:00 1993 From: ziplock@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sun Feb 14 23:07:00 1993 In message re: Right Wing Anarchy, optick said: > I am right-wing Anarchist myself... well sort of. I am an advocate of > feudalism, Some have called me a Fascist but I am not a rascist. You are a social darwinist, facist and racist.˙ From ziplock@yabbs Mon Feb 15 01:46:14 1993 From: ziplock@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Mon Feb 15 01:46:14 1993 In message re: @ & econ, optick said: > > The DEMOCRATIC party is nothing more than a Socialist party itself. > Just look at all the no good commie pinko bastards like Ron Brown, who run > it. don't go around calling the democrats socialists, or us no-good commie pinko bastards will get pissed. the democrats are capitalists; they are just slightly more opportunist and disingenuous than the republicans. you'll get all the mayhem and bloodshed you've come to expect optick, just like in the last 500 years -- the republicans don't have a monopoly on it yet.˙ From optick@yabbs Wed Feb 17 00:47:34 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Wed Feb 17 00:47:34 1993 You are 100% correct in your observation Buddha, If a huge political collapse takes place I doubt any politicians will even survive! They will be nearly the first ones executed or murdered. People would soon be breaking up into small groups or roaming bands of nomads. Strong leaders will eventually pop up and pull the people together. It will not be a hard task pulling people together with terror-filled images of murderous nomadic bands, starvation, and other such things lingering in the back of their minds. Soon enough those leaders would be laying claim to land which is to be farmed and lived on. The people will rely heavily upon the knowledge, strength, and wisdom of their leader. And that leader will eventually appoint an hier to replace him when he is gone (most likely a good friend or family member). As these groups grow larger, the leaders will see the need for more farmland and living space and it t(will eventually lead to land aquisition from neighboring groups through means of either conquest or negotiations. And no one can control that age old hunger for power. soon you have one group that will formulate into one big group that soon becomes quite a major Kingdom or Empire. Thus you have Feudalism and Monarchy, Buddha. If the government collapses tommorow (And I believe it's going to happen), the inevitable results are going to be feudalism & Monarchy. Optical From optick@yabbs Wed Feb 17 00:49:45 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Wed Feb 17 00:49:45 1993 Cop??? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Social Darwinist? Maybe, Afterall it is survival of the fittest! Face it, Socialism don't work. From optick@yabbs Wed Feb 17 00:57:31 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Wed Feb 17 00:57:31 1993 If the democratic party is not a socialist party in diguise, then will you please write the chairman and tell them to quite dumping those old dead socialist ideas all over the American people. Apparently you are not doing your homework Ziplock, if you want I will enlighten you on the subject. I think I know a little more about it than you seeing as how I live not more than 50 miles from the democracy capitol of the world, and apparently (from the picture you paint) you are living in another country. Optical From wurzle@yabbs Wed Feb 17 19:22:39 1993 From: wurzle@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: Collapse? I think not... Date: Wed Feb 17 19:22:39 1993 I'm a little unclear by what you all mean by a "collapse" of the Amerikan gov't. From the previous posts, I'm assuming you mean that D.C., the Pentagon, and all government offices nation-wide just up and disappear, as if by magic. (And all the people associated with them, of course.) The aftermath of such a disappearance wouldn't be nearly as dramatic as you're all describing anyway -- the grab for power and land would come from overseas, and have little to do with home-grown revolutions. After all, they have the big guns and know how to use them. If, say, the political branches of government would up and go away, then we'd be under military control overnight.... and, if for some reason, ALL governments and militaries vanished, our fate would lie in the hands of the national and multinational conglomorates. Anyways... the point I'm getting at is that the aftermath of the collapse depends highly on the nature of the collapse itself. And I doubt if the government came to an end, many people would really notice. They're too busy watching TV. From optick@yabbs Thu Feb 18 01:07:53 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: wurzle@yabbs Subject: re: Collapse? I think not... Date: Thu Feb 18 01:07:53 1993 What makes you think it cannot happen Wurzle? The Roman Empire never thought in their most wildest dreams that the Republic would be ruled by a "King", but it happend! Even worse yet no Commander was allowed to entew3r Rome at the head of his legion, but how quickly things can change. You are living under the illusion that America (USA) is going to exsist forever, but the cold, hard reality is that Empires rise and fall like the tides, and so shall America fall into ruins one day and there is nothing anyone can do to save it. What you are witnessing now are the seeds of destruction just being conceived. -Riot(s), Over-Taxing, Moral decay, Military resisting bequests of the government, "Multi-Culturalism", "Political-Correctness", ect... - Indeeed when/if America crumbles there will be other foriegn countries who will make land-grabs here, but when America goes down, a great majority of other countries will follow close behind. Think about it, the world economy would collapse and alot of people will be unhappy. When America finally does fall, the world will be drastically changed. Optical From buddha@yabbs Fri Feb 19 16:22:33 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Fri Feb 19 16:22:33 1993 Re: Anarchy --> Monarchy/Feudalism... So do you think that if there WAS a political collapse, and we ended up in a monarchy, we'd again make the transition to constitutional monarchy then democracy? Or do you think something else would evolve? -Boo From buddha@yabbs Fri Feb 19 16:23:19 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Fri Feb 19 16:23:19 1993 Re: Socialism don't work... It's never really been tried. From buddha@yabbs Fri Feb 19 16:28:46 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: Collapse? I think not... Date: Fri Feb 19 16:28:46 1993 But there was no dramatic collapse of the Roman empire, like we're talking. It's pretty silly to suggest that the political system in the US will just *collapse* without anyone else coming in immediately to take power. But the question is what if it did? Also, whadda you mean by a social darwinist? -Boo From ziplock@yabbs Fri Feb 19 18:18:44 1993 From: ziplock@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: re: Collapse? I think not... Date: Fri Feb 19 18:18:44 1993 In message re: Collapse? I think not..., buddha said: > Also, whadda you mean by a social darwinist? One who applies Darwinian evolutionary theory to human society, to justify why those on top should stay there, by virtue of their biological and/or social superiority. An elitist and reactionary dogma.˙ From dr. k@yabbs Sat Feb 20 16:39:18 1993 From: dr. k@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sat Feb 20 16:39:18 1993 You too? I am also a great attacker of those hanging out on the left wing. I would probably call myself more of a National Socialist, but I can't get into that Jew thing. Anarchy, though, is fun. Dr. K. From ziplock@yabbs Sat Feb 20 20:48:40 1993 From: ziplock@yabbs To: dr. k@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sat Feb 20 20:48:40 1993 In message re: Right Wing Anarchy, dr. k said: > You too? I am also a great attacker of those hanging out on the left wing. > I would probably call myself more of a National Socialist, but I can't get > into that Jew thing. Anarchy, though, is fun. Dr. K. ok, great attacker, fire away and we'll tell you why you're full of shit.˙ From optick@yabbs Sun Feb 21 01:35:26 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sun Feb 21 01:35:26 1993 I am sure if the process would repeat itself, But I am sure it would be rather close. The main thing about monarchies of the past was that religion played a key part. I am not sure if it would in the future or not. However it may turn out you can be best assured the end results will be more intense than the last. It may go so far as to where power is always inherited in a darwinistic manner (survival of the fittest) where power is acheived through domination and the removal of foes. America just hasn reached the era in her history yet (I believe), But I think that it may be inevitable. I really would not call it Monarchism, I tend to lean toward centralism acheived by divine right, or at least it will develop that way. From optick@yabbs Sun Feb 21 02:00:45 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sun Feb 21 02:00:45 1993 Sure it has, most of the nations of Europe have implemented it's theories. The problem with socialism is it lives by the fantasy that ALL people are equals and/or the working class are the ones that should be embodiment of power, and success should be punished with burden. In socialism there is no individualism, there is only collectivism. I used to be a Socialist, But not long ago I stood before other fellow Socialists and denounced Socialism (and socialist!), and renounced my Socialism. Why did I do this? The answer to that is quite simple, It has become quite clear that the Socialist Movement(s) have been identifying itself more and more with other radical left-wing groups that I have a great hatred for! Those left-wing groups being Liberals, Homosexuals, Feminists, Marxists, Other Socialist groups, Democrats, Cultural Awarness organizations, and enviromentalist! (Quite a liest eh?) I might add I was quite sick and tired of left-wing politics altogether, It is turning into one big cesspool of class-envy and criticism. Just ask any socialist today, they are all blinded by class-envy and criticism of the right, you can't have a political conversation with a Socialist without Class-Envy or Criticism popping up somewhere in there. Optical Illusion From optick@yabbs Sun Feb 21 02:07:33 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: re: Collapse? I think not... Date: Sun Feb 21 02:07:33 1993 Oh no! You're right, The Roman Empire did not come to a sudden climatic (and dramatic!) end, It gradually fell apart over time, Decay as it might be. What I mean by an abrupt end here in the U.S. would be more like the end of the Republic in Rome. ie; Some great disaster or Assination that would would split the people so badly that riots would a break out, and eventually lead to armed conflict. State militias and the army might split and in the end, the government as we know it would die and the declaration of an Imperator would take place. America could fragment into smaller states. /s From buddha@yabbs Sun Feb 21 13:11:09 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Sun Feb 21 13:11:09 1993 Oh god... I smelled intelligence up until the part about "left wing groups I have a great hatred for... Feminists, Homosexuals, Cultural Awareness groups." WhatEVER. Go back into your little paranoid hole... But what you were saying about religion aiding monarchy is definately true... notice that during most revolutions (Russian, French) there was a rejection of religion. Monarchs claiming "divine right" will not be able to get much authority THAT way in the future. -Boo From optick@yabbs Tue Feb 23 01:06:38 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: Collapse? I think not... Date: Tue Feb 23 01:06:38 1993 >why those on top should stay there, by virtue of their biological and/or >social superiority. An elitest and reactionary dogma So Ziplock, You think that success should be punished? That the children of the successful have no right to enjoy fruit of their labor??? Ziplock you have to understand that the rich do not get there by sitting on their hands and doing nothing, and their children cannot help the fact that they happen to be born into such a family. What are they to do, give up all of thier money and start from scratch just to make a few envious people happy? Now tell me if I am right Ziplock, You believe that all classes high and low should be made to pay their fair share of the burdern, Am I correct in that assumption? If I am correct, then please give me your definition of what "Fair" is? Optical Illusion From optick@yabbs Tue Feb 23 01:18:15 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: dr. k@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Tue Feb 23 01:18:15 1993 Well you don't have to be a Rascist to be Facsist Dr. K, The assumption that all fascist are racsist is some garbage spread around by the left-wing to discourage people and to generate hate for fascist movements. It's been the ignorant follies of the Nazi party and the KKK that have given the Fascists a bad reputation. Most right-wing groups should make it a goal to alienate such groups as White-Supremascist, Nazis, and the KKK and work toward the decline and dissolution of them. Race should NEVER EVER play a part in political power. Any such groups that do make race a or culturalism a central issue are doomed to failure. This is one of the problems plaguing America today. Optical Illusion From optick@yabbs Tue Feb 23 01:33:19 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Tue Feb 23 01:33:19 1993 AHA! So you are a leftist! I knew it when you started pulling the same old liberal/leftist tactic of protecting your ego by trying to insult mine! Alright... which one are you? Are you the Marxist, the Homosexual? The Feminist Feminazi?, The liberal? I believe that it would still be possible for Monarchs to claim the throne through divine right. If you think about the possibilities of a cultural revolution taking place and the return of the Inquisition (I for cultural revolution taking place, divine right becomes a possibility. (The return of the Inquisition would be quite a site!) Otherwise power would be achieved through the old-fashioned Roman way; The Army goes to the highest bidder, and the losers get to fall on their swords! Optical Illusion From buddha@yabbs Tue Feb 23 18:03:34 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Tue Feb 23 18:03:34 1993 Yeah man, I'm a real hippie fag, you know I voted Green party last election... Whatever. People of all political persuasions use insult as a way of boosting their own egos, it was pretty weak of you to try + tie THAT in with liberalism... Fascism: 1. A political philosphy, movement, or regime ... that exalts NATION and often RACE above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and FORCIBLE SUPRESSION OF OPPOSITION. Fascism is CLEARLY reliant upon either xenophobia or rascism, which pretty much boil down to hatred because of IGNORANT prejudice (as opposed to EDUCATED prejudice). Yes, it may make for a very successful dictator, but what happens if you don't like him? Did you read the last part (in caps) of the definition? -Boo From riben@yabbs Tue Feb 23 23:33:59 1993 From: riben@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: socialism Date: Tue Feb 23 23:33:59 1993 from optik's writings, the most i can glean of his criticism of socialism and his renouncement thereof is that it is not based on any real, concrete objections, but rather he feels it is not fashionable (in his own circles) to be socialist. he has given no reasons for denoucing socialism, other than "it's a bunch of dead ideas." it is a common misconception that "old" ideas are somehow outdated, and "new" ideas are better (in all cases except those biblical, patriarchal, or Clearly American). socialism is actually a much newer idea than anything in force in this country. and how has it failed? look at one of our big national crises: health covereage. people everywhere are screaming about it, the president's wife is devoting her life to it, and it's just a bad thing all around. why don't we hear the same gripes in other countries? (to those unaware: nearly every other country has a form of socialized medicine, including Canada and the UK) From optick@yabbs Wed Feb 24 01:48:41 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: re: Right Wing Anarchy Date: Wed Feb 24 01:48:41 1993 Well, First of all you have not seen me making insults at YOUR intelligence have you? Everytime I debate with a liberal and he/she starts losing the argument, the same old ego defense comes up everytime; "Oh you are just ignorant" or "You're just a bigot!". SAnd sure enough YOU made the comment about about my intelligence when you felt your ego threatend. It's quite typical, Liberals always tend to be hypocritical. Typical hypocrites you wonder? Well let's take one; Enviromentalist, They are so fanatical about saving trees to make this world a better place to are so fanatical about saving trees (to make this such a wonderful world to live in), that they are willing to drive spilkes into trees which will (and has) end up killing some innocent lumber worker who is just trying to make a living to feed his family and get by. We need fascism to do away with such fanatics who would risk the lives of people just to save a lump of wood! FASCISM Let enlighten you here Buddha, It's easy to see you are only familar with the old Webster definition of fascism. Fascism is Nationalism in the highest degree, Fascist regimes seek isolation of their borders which means no immigrant. (ie; America is for Americans only, No outsiders allowed in), Fascism uses brutality to enforce law in some regimes. But is that bad? I could form the Amercian Fascist Movement tommorow and it could include people of all colors (Black,White,Oriental) and it's purpose would would be anti-immigration and the promotion of American values only, which means all those (foriegnors) living here now would have to abandon their non-American cultures and accept the American culture. The assumption that fascism has to be racially motivated is another liberal (and left-wing) assumption. Why is that??? Because the liberals and left-wing groups promote the most racist policy of them all; Multi-Culturalism. Optical Illusion From optick@yabbs Wed Feb 24 02:01:52 1993 From: optick@yabbs To: riben@yabbs Subject: re: socialism Date: Wed Feb 24 02:01:52 1993 And those countries you have named have dreadful health care systems (America has the best in the world), and they have smaller populations. When the government foots the bill, quality is going to suffer badly. Army and Veteran hospitals are run by the government here in America (just like regular hospitals in your great socialist countries), And I will garuntee you this, if you ever go in a Army or Veteran Hospital here, You will be BEGGING to get out!!! How much quality care do you think you are going to get from a doctor who is being paid 5 bucks per hour??? Riben, Why don't you tell me of one country that has successfully instituted the ideas of socialism? I have already told you why I denounced socialism. It is nothing more that a philosphy based on class-envy and ppunishment of the successful. The system of Socialism cannot define the terms of what 'Fair' is. Optical Illusion BTW: Where is Ziplock???? I enjoy debating with him! From buddha@yabbs Wed Feb 24 19:21:02 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: re: socialism Date: Wed Feb 24 19:21:02 1993 America has the best health care in the world? Then why is it that American health is so far behind countries such as Japan, Germany, etc? I mea higher rates of heart disease, high blood pressure, and so forth. Don't blame that on American super-consumerism... Its a product of people not being able to afford normal treatment and medication. Health shouldn't be a luxury, like cars or TVs... We need a health care plan modeled after those in West Germany or Canada, where health is a right of EVERYONE, not just the financially fit... "America is for Americans only... promote American values??!?" Let me explain something: no matter how right-wing you'd like to be, you'd be one of the first victimized by fascism. Hacking, phreaking, and generally ANY form of liberty which could undermine CAPITALI$M would be eliminated by fascist control. The government intends to defend the $$$ which keeps it powerful, hacking and phreaking make that $$$ unsafe, and if they could, they'd crack down. Fascism would give them that chance. You could say bye-bye to all your little hacking groups and so forth... You wouldn't like it so much, then, would you? Um, also-- "no immigrants?" America is a country of immigrants... Who are you to say who's a true American. -Boo From lostboy@yabbs Wed Feb 24 21:22:05 1993 From: lostboy@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: definitions Date: Wed Feb 24 21:22:05 1993 I had an interesting conversation with a young man about his definition of anarchy the other day. He flat out asked me, "Cool man. You're into anarchy, huh? What kind?" I had no clue what he meant and told him so; he responded: "I mean, are you into revenge, or guns, or explosives or what?" I was appalled. Obviously he had never really thought about anarchy and decided to put it into a category with all of his negative emotions - hate, anger revenge, etc. I infromed him that the true anarchist (in my opinion) is one who is dedicated to overthrowing the status quo and create a new structure based on the concepts of responsibility and personal freedom. We had an interesting chat, since even after I told him my viewpoint he continued on ranting about how he was "gonna blow this guy to Hell and back" with his homemade explosives because the guy in question insulted his girlfriend. And he called THAT anarchy! From fredbisc@yabbs Mon Mar 1 15:40:58 1993 From: fredbisc@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: to all the liberals and con Date: Mon Mar 1 15:40:58 1993 ...they spend the day sitting at swamps with fishing rods, thinking themselves profound; but whoever fishes where there are no fish, I would not even call superficial. that's by friedrich nietzsche, a very profound thinker. hitler took some of his doctrines and misinterpreted them for his own good. why don't all you liberals and conservatives take these words and interpret them for the common good. arguing amongst ourselves is useless. while we argue, they take away. oh well, maybe it's just me, but i hate politics. anyone here ever heard any of jello biafra's spoken word stuff? try to find some. fredbisc From buddha@yabbs Mon Mar 1 16:29:13 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: fredbisc@yabbs Subject: re: to all the liberals and con Date: Mon Mar 1 16:29:13 1993 Yeah, I've got Jello's "I Blow Minds for a Living". Wow. I haven't gotten around to listening to any of his other stuff, but I LOVE it... What else have you heard? -Boo From jasonlee@yabbs Mon Mar 1 19:49:39 1993 From: jasonlee@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: re: to all the liberals and con Date: Mon Mar 1 19:49:39 1993 Yeah, I've got that tape, too (hear that Fredbisc?). It's damn good. I've heard a couple other of his spoken word stuff, but I don't remember what the names of the tapes were. He seems to be a pretty nice guy, but it doesn't seem like he does a lot besides talk. I don't know, though. I could be wrong. JasonLee From fredbisc@yabbs Mon Mar 1 21:57:56 1993 From: fredbisc@yabbs To: buddha@yabbs Subject: jello Date: Mon Mar 1 21:57:56 1993 that's his third spoken tape. he used to sing for the dead kennedys, and has had projects with al and paul from the ministry (called LARD), as well as DOA and nomeansno. also some other stuff i can't think of off hand. hmmmm. his first spoken tape is mostly about censorship, although there are some cool things about why he's glad the space shuttle blew up, and how to choose band names. the second is about him getting sued for distributing harmful matter to minors (he included an H.R. Geiger painting in the dead kennedys frankenchrist record). ahhhhh, i could go on for days. mail me on musak or whatever if you want more info. From jasonlee@yabbs Fri Mar 5 13:43:42 1993 From: jasonlee@yabbs To: fredbisc@yabbs Subject: re: jello Date: Fri Mar 5 13:43:42 1993 Hm...I really didn't know he was in Lard. I was listening to some of their stuff in a bookstore, and the whole thing sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it. Maybe I'll have to get some o that Lard stuff. JasonLee From kingpin@yabbs Fri Mar 5 23:17:36 1993 From: kingpin@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: Novatel cellular phone part Date: Fri Mar 5 23:17:36 1993 Hey I've been looking for this part for my Novatel transportable bag phone for a while.. It is the plastic 's' shaped insert that goes inside the bag to seperate the battery from the transceiver and from the handset cradle.. Novatel doesn't make them anymore.. hmm.. if anyone has one available, I will pay CASH (thats right.. real money) for it.. so let me know.. thanks.. Kingpin - 617 RDT Posse From ziplock@yabbs Tue Mar 9 10:01:13 1993 From: ziplock@yabbs To: lostboy@yabbs Subject: re: definitions Date: Tue Mar 9 10:01:13 1993 In message definitions, lostboy said: > I had an interesting conversation with a young man about his definition of > anarchy the other day. He flat out asked me, "Cool man. You're into > anarchy, huh? What kind?" I had no clue what he meant and told him so; > he responded: "I mean, are you into revenge, or guns, or explosives or > what?" Hey, can I use this response you gave for the alt.society.anarchy FAQ? ˙ From novice@yabbs Sat Mar 13 17:42:14 1993 From: novice@yabbs To: optick@yabbs Subject: American culture Date: Sat Mar 13 17:42:14 1993 A while back, you meantioned in your discussion of fascism that if America were to "become fascist," (quite a feat...) then its borders would close (I know this is simplified) and all of the AMERICANS inside would have to embrace AMERICAN values, regardless of their ethnic origin. The trouble being...then you have to define AMERICAN culture, and I thik you'd have a hard time doing that without acknowledging the presence of ethnicity in American culture. Which, it seems to me, kind of negates the purpose of fascism, doesn't it? ...novice... (LGILBER@opie.bgsu.edu) From novice@yabbs Sat Mar 13 17:48:10 1993 From: novice@yabbs To: lostboy@yabbs Subject: re: definitions Date: Sat Mar 13 17:48:10 1993 RE: Definitions of anarchy. It's funny, isn't it...how definitions get *$&%ed up depending on who wants to use what word to mean what and it what context? I've always considered myself "anarchist," but (aside from recreational reading of The Anarchist's Cookbook...mostly for the drug recipies..) I also always considered it to be a purely personal thing. In other words..you don't infringe on my rights, I won't infringe on yours. 'Nuff siad. ...novice.. (LGILBER@opie.bgsu.edu) From gambit@yabbs Sun Mar 14 03:13:32 1993 From: gambit@yabbs To: novice@yabbs Subject: A's Cookbook Date: Sun Mar 14 03:13:32 1993 Speaking of, any idea where I can get a copy of that? I've heard about it, and it sounds like fun reading. And Id have to agree, anarchy is almost entirelly a personal thing. It can be interpereted and defined in enough different ways that almost no two anarchists have the same ideas and beliefs. Then of course, there's "Hey, we made a pipe bomb.. we're anarchists now..." No, boys and girls, no no no... sheesh. From buddha@yabbs Sun Mar 14 14:34:18 1993 From: buddha@yabbs To: gambit@yabbs Subject: re: A's Cookbook Date: Sun Mar 14 14:34:18 1993 The Anarchist's Cookbook can be ordered from a bunch of places, it's usually $20+. Frankly, I don't think its worth it considering that the info is 20 years old and better techniques for doing most of the stuff in there can be found floating around cyberspace (for free, might I add). The drug stuff is OK, but I have heard rumors about how accurate the recipies, etc, are. You'd be better off ordering some of the more recent stuff from Books-By-Phone or FS Books or Loompanics... Better info and price... -Boo From laurel@yabbs Sun Mar 14 23:10:04 1993 From: laurel@yabbs To: gambit@yabbs Subject: y Date: Sun Mar 14 23:10:04 1993 Altough it says from "Laurel" it's actually novice and I just coudn't--for some reason--log on with novice. However.... The only copy of The Anarchist's Cookbook that I've seen for sale was at a coffee shop in town (this town is Bowling Green, Ohio...which is worse than Dante's hell...) called Grounds for Thought. However, I think it's gone now. The library where I work, which is the Popular Culture Library at BGSU also has a copy, though I'm not sure if they let books out on innerlibrary loan or not. It's about 100 pages...maybe I'll make one of those illigal copies that we're warned against and bring it home. It's hard to find, but I know it's still attainable, if not in print, because the copy I saw at the coffeeshop was new. ...novice.. (LGILBER@opie.bgsu.edu) From natepalm@yabbs Sun Mar 14 23:57:17 1993 From: natepalm@yabbs To: laurel@yabbs Subject: re: y Date: Sun Mar 14 23:57:17 1993 hwy bother with the Anarchists cookbook, when you ahve the Jolly Rogers' on line? I love that! I'mnot ever going to use any of it, either .because it would be illegal. but I bought the Anarchists in Minneapolis (i'm sure they've got lots of copies left) and it was 1/2 drugs (which I don't do) and the rest was killing people (which I don't do..) so it was pretty useless. From novice@yabbs Mon Mar 15 20:58:06 1993 From: novice@yabbs To: natepalm@yabbs Subject: Anarchy Date: Mon Mar 15 20:58:06 1993 RE: The Anarchist Cookbook Yeah, it's half drugs (no comment) and half killing (which I haven't done...yet), but it's interesting, and one should always keep an open mind I think. Maybe it's the weather, maybe it's the sunspots, maybe it's just middle of the semester blahs....but anrachy--total--seems like a lot of fun right now. I've decided to become a virtual person. Appropriated song lyrics: "We are living In a virtual world, And I am a virtual girl... (Oh yeah) we're living In a virtual world And I am a virtual girl.. (hey hey hey ...novice.. From natepalm@yabbs Tue Mar 16 12:40:53 1993 From: natepalm@yabbs To: novice@yabbs Subject: re: Anarchy Date: Tue Mar 16 12:40:53 1993 Oh, I never said that other people woudn't like it.. =^) I was jsut saying that for waht i was looking for, the JR here is jsut about right. and once again, i'll never use it... but total Anarchy would hit the spt, methinks. I love it whan people say "In an anarchy, the strongest would overpower everybody, and you'd be their slaves, blah blah, blah." wll then, it wouldn't be proper Anarchy, would it? Megadeths "Anarchy in the UK" is the best version, IMHO. (no disrespect to the Pistols, of course..) From enigma@yabbs Tue Mar 16 22:22:14 1993 From: enigma@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: freedom??? Date: Tue Mar 16 22:22:14 1993 Okay, I've got a little social commentary for you all: Tomorrw, I go tto court to defend my right (?) to not be beat up by big men w/ guns--namley, the cops. The COPS broke into my home a month ago, chased me down when I tried to run from them, (I'll stress right now that they had NOT arrested me at that time) beat me up, took me into "custody" (we'll dispute the definition of that later) took me to the station, threatened me some more, and THEN arrested me for (you ready for this..........) *******************RESISTING ARREST*************************************************************** So, tomorrow I go to plead my side (thanks to the free university lawyer). Granted, i did fight back when the cops tackled me, and they say that they can arrest someone with out telling they are arrested and so, I was arrested at the time I ran; however, I really have a problem with the situation as a whole. Who gave them that right to break into my house (a window inmy door got broken) and take me ito "custody" for something that I didn't do AND isn't illegal! (I told someone I was going to kill myself) Now, where the FUCK are my individual rights? What kind of a nazi Police state are we really living in???? And those pigs have the nerve to go into the schools and brainwash little kids how great the cops are and how everybody is supposed to TRUst them!! Yeah, right. From natepalm@yabbs Wed Mar 17 16:10:13 1993 From: natepalm@yabbs To: enigma@yabbs Subject: re: freedom??? Date: Wed Mar 17 16:10:13 1993 You weren't playing their little game. and you got busted for it. Ain't our society grand? To pull stupid shit like that... did they have a warrant? Did they say any anything before they busted in? Knock? Maybe even a nice, "Hey. We heard you were going to kill yourself. don't do it, ok?" My guess wiould be big no... but hey. Hope you get off... From weezal@yabbs Thu Mar 18 00:46:56 1993 From: weezal@yabbs To: gambit@yabbs Subject: re: A's Cookbook Date: Thu Mar 18 00:46:56 1993 In my town here, a couple of morons in their 20's blew up a Junior High School girls restroom, and made another bomb that wouldn't work. Besides that, they got caught. I imagine they think they're anarchists. From weezal@yabbs Thu Mar 18 00:49:29 1993 From: weezal@yabbs To: natepalm@yabbs Subject: re: Anarchy Date: Thu Mar 18 00:49:29 1993 The only people who think anarchy is the strongest ruling and support it are those who think they're the strongest. Someone needs to knock them down a bit. From mohawk@yabbs Thu Mar 18 01:33:34 1993 From: mohawk@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re: A's Cookbook Date: Thu Mar 18 01:33:34 1993 If anyone is interested in books like the Anarchists Cookbook, try Loompanics, they have a pretty good selection of underground books, the address is:Loompanics Unlimited, PO Box 1197 Port Townsend WA 98368, the catalog costs $5. Amok also is an underground book distributer, their address is: Amok, PO Box 861867 Terminal Annex, Los Angeles CA 90086-1867. The catalog is $9, but its 400 pages. mohawk From enigma@yabbs Fri Mar 19 20:54:20 1993 From: enigma@yabbs To: natepalm@yabbs Subject: re: freedom??? Date: Fri Mar 19 20:54:20 1993 You guessed it! No warrant, no REASON to arrest me, no response to the fact that I told them several times NOT to come into my home, nothing except a good old bump/cut on my head where theyrammed it inot the sidewalk and arrest charges! Assholes! As for my lawyer, he got them to chance it to disorderly conduct and told me to accept that because there was no way I get off in a trial. Well, I did and I got fined $125.00 for it. I'really pissed that I did that becasue it's like admitting that I was wrong, when I know that I what I did wasn't wrong! But, I can't change it now. I'm really pissed at this whole society--it sucks, and ther's nohing I can do but go to Canada (amd probably get fucked ther too). And you're right, for someone who's supposed to be "protecting" me and convincing me to trust them and that I shouldn't commit suicde, thay sure did a bang up job! I still have to replace the galss they broke in my door! From gambit@yabbs Sat Mar 20 15:15:01 1993 From: gambit@yabbs To: weezal@yabbs Subject: re: A's Cookbook Date: Sat Mar 20 15:15:01 1993 Yeah, I live in the same place you do. Went to that school, actually. Those guys were fucking morons, first oiff foor even doing what they did, and second for getting caught doing it. Sheesh. From oderous@yabbs Sun Mar 28 22:43:12 1993 From: oderous@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re:Jolly Rogers Date: Sun Mar 28 22:43:12 1993 hehe... speaking of this fine publication, some kid in Ohio was selling Hardcopies of it in his middle school.... needless to say, a lot of people were very upset, and a lot of kids/parents think that he's a maniac for having it. If only they knew that their 12-13 year old could waltz into Waldenbooks/Community Newscenter and pick up the AC fer $22.50 , or if have a modem, get 20 times as many equally (more) dangerous text files as this. odd From fredbisc@yabbs Tue Mar 30 20:14:07 1993 From: fredbisc@yabbs To: enigma@yabbs Subject: re: freedom??? Date: Tue Mar 30 20:14:07 1993 my band played a show at my former high school one night and some off-duty pigs were hired to act as security. well anyway during our set, the last of the night, a couple (a bunch) of friends decided to mosh it up, or closer to the truth act silly by dancing (strictly forbidden), well the gist of the story is one of my friends got a flashlight busted (literally) over his head, a maglight no less, and another got arrested for assaulting a pig when he shrugged one's hand off his shoulder. fucking stupid. not quite the same as your situation, but nevertheless a shining example of a fucking pig's stupidity. fredbiscuit From johndeer@yabbs Wed Mar 31 14:50:54 1993 From: johndeer@yabbs To: fredbisc@yabbs Subject: re: freedom??? Date: Wed Mar 31 14:50:54 1993 how could your friend be charged with assaulting a pig when the pig was off-duty? if the pig was off-duty, he would be charged with assaulting a normal citizen. (actually, it's battery, not assault, but nobody's being picky)... john Deere From fredbisc@yabbs Wed Mar 31 21:35:17 1993 From: fredbisc@yabbs To: johndeer@yabbs Subject: pigs Date: Wed Mar 31 21:35:17 1993 i guess it was because the cop was in uniform. in any case, my pal got a nice fine and a suspended sentence due to a judge who must love pigs. oh, did i forget to mention that my friends had long hair? fredbiscuit From johndeer@yabbs Thu Apr 1 15:33:26 1993 From: johndeer@yabbs To: fredbisc@yabbs Subject: re: pigs Date: Thu Apr 1 15:33:26 1993 damn longhairs.... :) john Deere From fredbisc@yabbs Sun Apr 4 19:34:42 1993 From: fredbisc@yabbs To: johndeer@yabbs Subject: re: pigs Date: Sun Apr 4 19:34:42 1993 that's what the rest of my band said and shaved theirs off. oh well, at least the pigs felt good about themselves, right? fred... From greywolf@yabbs Tue Apr 13 23:12:27 1993 From: greywolf@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: anarchy Date: Tue Apr 13 23:12:27 1993 Boy oh Boy, we all seem quit intent on anarchy don't we? Not apost in a fortnight? From swami@yabbs Tue Apr 13 23:16:45 1993 From: swami@yabbs To: greywolf@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Tue Apr 13 23:16:45 1993 In these days, I think libertarianism is the closest to anarchy you can get. Maybe Clinton will give us cause, eh? Swami From fredbisc@yabbs Thu Apr 15 15:39:48 1993 From: fredbisc@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Thu Apr 15 15:39:48 1993 i've just been saying too much. subscribe to the blue ball entrepreneur! From tom@yabbs Thu Apr 15 22:47:30 1993 From: tom@yabbs To: johndeer@yabbs Subject: re: pigs Date: Thu Apr 15 22:47:30 1993 what's funny is when i (being of longish hair) am nice to people...not rude at least...they always act surprised...like people with long hair are supposed to be always stoned and real obnoxious... From greywolf@yabbs Fri Apr 16 01:02:47 1993 From: greywolf@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: blue ball entrepenuer Date: Fri Apr 16 01:02:47 1993 what's the #? From fredbisc@yabbs Fri Apr 16 16:31:51 1993 From: fredbisc@yabbs To: greywolf@yabbs Subject: re: blue ball entrepenuer Date: Fri Apr 16 16:31:51 1993 e-mail to fln2jes@cabell.vcu.edu for an issue or just info. fredbisc From ziplock@yabbs Sun May 2 15:39:47 1993 From: ziplock@yabbs To: swami@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Sun May 2 15:39:47 1993 In message re: anarchy, swami said: > In these days, I think libertarianism is the closest to anarchy > you can get. Maybe Clinton will give us cause, eh? Which is sorta moot since libertarianism isn't anarchy at all -- libertarians advocate destruction of the state, but no end to social hierarchy that creates states.˙ From swami@yabbs Thu May 6 11:36:51 1993 From: swami@yabbs To: ziplock@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Thu May 6 11:36:51 1993 Sure libertarianism isn't true anarchy, but for Joe American it's a hell of a change. Gee, he might actually have to be productive and think for himself. While I find many libertarian ideas very interesting, I simply cannot see such a drastic depart from current society. Swami From ziplock@yabbs Thu May 6 19:44:03 1993 From: ziplock@yabbs To: swami@yabbs Subject: Libertarians Date: Thu May 6 19:44:03 1993 For people who thing that anarchism and libertarianism have anything in common, I recommend Bob Black's essay "Libertarian as Conservative". He makes some decent points (though I don't support his every word). You can ftp it or gopher it from uglymouse.css.itd.umich.edu (141.211.182.53) in /pub/Politics/Essays/Anarchy˙ From bit@yabbs Mon May 10 08:50:08 1993 From: bit@yabbs To: htoaster@yabbs Subject: re: @ & econ Date: Mon May 10 08:50:08 1993 Couldn't the civilian deaths be because Saddam kept putting the things the allies wanted to bomb in non military areas? I'm not too sure about this though. From jasonlee@yabbs Sun Sep 19 12:28:06 1993 From: jasonlee@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: .... Date: Sun Sep 19 12:28:06 1993 Hm, no anarchists this year? JasonLee From admiral@yabbs Sun Sep 19 18:10:21 1993 From: admiral@yabbs To: jasonlee@yabbs Subject: re: .... Date: Sun Sep 19 18:10:21 1993 Nah, I guess they blew themselves up when they were trying to make nitroglycerin or something. Hey, anybody know any good shit to pull? Something that works good in small cities... I'm kinda bored here.. heh llatta From jasonlee@yabbs Mon Sep 20 14:17:05 1993 From: jasonlee@yabbs To: admiral@yabbs Subject: re: .... Date: Mon Sep 20 14:17:05 1993 You could always try some billboard alterations, though that may take a while, and requires a great degree of skill. The results are always interesting. That's one way to defeat boredom. JasonLee From lobster@yabbs Mon Sep 27 19:00:09 1993 From: lobster@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: anarchy Date: Mon Sep 27 19:00:09 1993 SystemSez>> No new messages in Anarchy in the US (why not post one?) Ok. Whenever I pass a metermaid on the street (Boston) I hum the theme to Dragnet. Because they are so /<-RaD writing tickets and such. Actually how about some useful information...all right...twice I got a parking ticket, which was totally my fault. I parked on the wrong side of the street when street cleaning was being done. $15 bucks or so. Ok now I mean tWICE this happened. Get this: both times I appealed the ticket (sent in a letter instead of a check) and I won both times. So if you get a parking ticket don't pay it. Appeal it...even if it WAS your fault, what is the worst they can do to you? Tell you are incorrect and tell you to pay up. That's all really... /*-- Lobster --*/ From xenon@yabbs Mon Sep 27 22:36:19 1993 From: xenon@yabbs To: lobster@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Mon Sep 27 22:36:19 1993 Ya know, way-back-when I used to put $ in those damn machines. In the space of a couple o' months, I recieved 3 tickets when my meter had expired in the last 2-4 minutes. Sounds like some asshole was just sitting there waiting. Anywayz, I put my last hunk o' change in those damn rip-off meters October of '92 and have NOT gotten a single ticket since then and I've been parking in the worst places. Actually, I rarely park in a space anymore. I just stop at the side of the road and put my blinkers on. Maybe that's why I haven't been ticketed... --> Xenon From admiral@yabbs Tue Sep 28 17:49:49 1993 From: admiral@yabbs To: lobster@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Tue Sep 28 17:49:49 1993 I miss boston. Can't wait till december. I'm gonna be up there staying with a friend. Gonna have shitloads of fun.... Anarchy rulez! llatta From lobster@yabbs Wed Sep 29 19:29:49 1993 From: lobster@yabbs To: xenon@yabbs Subject: parking meters Date: Wed Sep 29 19:29:49 1993 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ since then and I've been parking in the worst places. Actually, I rarely park in a space anymore. I just stop at the side of the road and put my blinkers on. Maybe that's why I haven't been ticketed... \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ That's a good scheme. But if they see you there for over an hour or so I'm sure they'd ticket you. What city are you in? Here in Boston the BTD (people who hand out tickets) is a mutli-million dollar business...I don't know that for a fact but seeing how many cars have thos damn flourescent orange tickets on them, they must be raking in lots of dough. lobster From xenon@yabbs Fri Oct 1 10:46:18 1993 From: xenon@yabbs To: lobster@yabbs Subject: re: parking meters Date: Fri Oct 1 10:46:18 1993 Im in Ann Arbor and by the size and tech. advanced state of our great, (ahem), police force, ya know they gotta get the moneyy from somewhere. Damn meter maids w/ their little ticket computers. Oh, I got a ticket once, but the meter-maid entered the last number of my lisense plate wrong...too / Xenon From wonko@yabbs Fri Oct 1 11:10:36 1993 From: wonko@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: parking Date: Fri Oct 1 11:10:36 1993 i drive a large white Chevy C-20 van with Faller's Pretzel Co. grafix plastered all over it. (my dad's place, company truck) and i get to park in the neatest places. all i have to say is that i'm delivering pretzels. just leave the blinkers on and i can park just about anywhere in Reading,PA for ever. i get into places free too. great thing this system of ours. -wonko From lobster@yabbs Sat Oct 2 20:35:57 1993 From: lobster@yabbs To: xenon@yabbs Subject: re: parking meters Date: Sat Oct 2 20:35:57 1993 >> Damn meter maids w/ their little ticket computers. Every time I walk past a meter maid I hum the theme to dragnet. pisses them off From lobster@yabbs Sat Oct 2 20:40:26 1993 From: lobster@yabbs To: wonko@yabbs Subject: re: parking Date: Sat Oct 2 20:40:26 1993 >> and i get to park in the neatest places. all i have to say is >> that i'm delivering pretzels. just leave the blinkers on and i That's pretty damn funny. Hey are you Wonko from Uncensored! BBS in the 914 area code (PEarl River, NY)? /*--Lobster--*/ From wonko@yabbs Mon Oct 4 14:48:02 1993 From: wonko@yabbs To: lobster@yabbs Subject: re: parking Date: Mon Oct 4 14:48:02 1993 nope, where the sam hell is 914?? where the fuck is my area code/prefix map?? can't find the damn thing. i don't call bbses much anymore. simply because i live in the computer lab at school so i can have access to inet. only boards i really ever called where in virginia. Chiba City Blues & the otherone , damn can't think of the name. fucking lag. l8r all, -wonko From Dcypher@yabbs Tue Oct 5 11:55:27 1993 From: Dcypher@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: Date: Tue Oct 5 11:55:27 1993 Just want to see if I can leave a message, the college interface I am using is all screwed up. BTW: Anyone have a list of Outdials ?? Later, Dcypher From phragger@yabbs Wed Oct 6 12:21:39 1993 From: phragger@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re: Date: Wed Oct 6 12:21:39 1993 >BTW: Anyone have a list of Outdials ?? I'd be interested in one as well. ++phragger From lobster@yabbs Thu Oct 7 12:11:00 1993 From: lobster@yabbs To: wonko@yabbs Subject: re: parking Date: Thu Oct 7 12:11:00 1993 >> nope, where the sam hell is 914?? where the fuck is my area 914 is Rockland County, NY. Suburb area of New York City. Yeah now I remember, the guy's name was Wonko the Sane. When I moved the 516 (Long Island) some crazy phreak actually redirected a line back to that BBS so you could make a local call from 516 to connect to the bbs in 914. It was so fucking hilarious. God knows how he did it (phreaking's not one of my specialties) /*--- Lobster ---*/ From wonko@yabbs Thu Oct 7 12:25:26 1993 From: wonko@yabbs To: lobster@yabbs Subject: re: parking Date: Thu Oct 7 12:25:26 1993 well, we found some interesting things. direct data lines to other states. don't know how to use them, or if we can at all. found this HUGE system in Reading, PA. about 10 dialin/dialout lines setup as extender lines, and these fucking data lines to about 12 other states. -wonko (the new local admin for fubar, yea) From comrade@yabbs Fri Oct 15 20:22:43 1993 From: comrade@yabbs To: xenon@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Fri Oct 15 20:22:43 1993 Well since this is anarchy... What me and a friend do when we can't find a parking space is we park and we smash the meter. We're only fucking over the city, and we can't put money into a broken meter, now can we? So always keep a hammer handy... jason From swami@yabbs Sun Oct 17 15:04:50 1993 From: swami@yabbs To: comrade@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Sun Oct 17 15:04:50 1993 Heh, I like that method of parking. I read about some dude who took a professors parking spot, so the professor proceeded to ram him car repeatedly into the other dude's car. Ahhh, nothing like letting out a little aggression. So does the same method apply to mail boxes, etc? swami From ACiD@yabbs Sun Oct 17 15:07:21 1993 From: ACiD@yabbs To: swami@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Sun Oct 17 15:07:21 1993 bleh... i know this is wrong place but who gives a shit... you knkow some good IRC sites with login / passwords? From Phrancis@yabbs Thu Oct 21 19:49:46 1993 From: Phrancis@yabbs To: all@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Thu Oct 21 19:49:46 1993 What is going on here? I thought this was going to be a rippin' anarchy/phreaking conference. Does anyone actually log on here? Phrancis From xenon@yabbs Thu Oct 21 22:11:09 1993 From: xenon@yabbs To: Phrancis@yabbs Subject: re: anarchy Date: Thu Oct 21 22:11:09 1993 no one but u...actually all the /