read new nonstop follow 93372 21-AUG 18:29 New Uploads PCPower news letter typo From: DOMM To: ALL In the PCPower News - article 1396 - it was reported that: >..."D.A.V.I.D"... was an "OS/2 derived" thing. Well...after consulting with Mike Rowen..I was assured it must be a typo. This misaligned information just would't do ....so....I emailed them... Just got the reply... says...it has now been fixed to read "OS-9" (enough is enough, ya know? ---Dom -*- 93375 21-AUG 21:26 New Uploads RE: PCPower news letter typo (Re: Msg 93372) From: JOHNBAER To: DOMM (hehe) Yea, I can see them scratch'n there heads.. "What happened to 3 to 8!!!!" . -- John - Windows isn't a virus .. Virus's _do_ something. -*- End of Thread. -*- 93373 21-AUG 21:25 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93370) From: JOHNBAER To: WDTV5 Gene, I have no idea who that could be .... :) -- John - Windows isn't a virus .. Virus's _do_ something. -*- 93377 21-AUG 21:41 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93355) From: DBREEDING To: 01GEN40 > If I am not too mistaken, I think I posted such a message here right > after Bob was released. So this is probably where I got it in the first place > Saw it in one of the computer publications > here in San Diego and thought people here might enjoy reading it. I > laughed so hard I fell out of my chair. I thought it was really neat. Of course it exaggerated a little, I suppose, but in a way, it truly captured the essence of MS. > By the way, does anyone know the pronunciation of BOB if it is > spelled backwards? ;-) Let's see.. I'll write a program that will reverse the letters and I'll have it print the new name out. I'll have to see what it looks like first -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93378 22-AUG 00:54 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93373) From: WDTV5 To: JOHNBAER Touche' -*- 93387 23-AUG 00:20 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93365) From: WA2EGP To: DBREEDING But why do the big guys give us so much ammunition? Actually, I'm surprised that the people doing the satire haven't been contacted by Microslop's lawyers to cease and desist. I just about every news article about weak 95 mentions that there will be bugs. They aren't even falling back on the old saying that bugs are just undocumented features. I saw one article where a Mac user was blasting weak 95 by saying Macs were doing what was was being hyped several years ago. Gee, does that sound familiar? -*- 93388 23-AUG 00:21 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93377) From: WA2EGP To: DBREEDING Actually the next release of BOB will have a second "O" in it. Somewhat describes the user. -*- 93409 24-AUG 21:27 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93387) From: DBREEDING To: WA2EGP > But why do the big guys give us so much ammunition? Actually, I'm > surprised that the people doing the satire haven't been contacted by > Microslop's lawyers to cease and desist. Well, I'd guess that if they went after these, it would be some rather bad publicity. > I saw one article where a Mac user > was blasting weak 95 by saying Macs were doing what was was being hyped > several years ago. Gee, does that sound familiar? In the US News story I saw, there was a sidebar by a Mac user comparing MacOS and Win95. They are actually right about the way Win 95 looks more like a Mac than previously. It's sad that the most popular system going has to upgrade to catch up with the underdogs. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93410 24-AUG 21:28 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93388) From: DBREEDING To: WA2EGP > Actually the next release of BOB will have a second "O" in it. Somewhat > describes the user. Probably _very_ descriptive. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93429 26-AUG 13:24 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93320) From: JOHNREED To: DBREEDING Another OS-9er in Windoze-land. NO, this is NOT another "goodbye" note. OS-9 remains alive and well on my desk, and the MM/1a will be my "main" computer until it smokes or gets hopelessly outmoded -- then I will get ANOTHER OS-9 machine. OK, I couldn't resist the hype. I went out and bought Windows-95 for the messydos machine. So far, so good. Installation was pretty much "idiot-proof" and took about 45 minutes. Windows-95 looks to me like a cross between a Mac and OS2. Everything works, and seems faster than before. Christie's cute koala videos come up real fast now. That was the BIG test. If it couldn't show those koalas, Christie would have rejected Win-95 completely. She hauled me all over a zoo in Chicago this spring looking for the little critters. (They were asleep). It seems pretty good at identifying hardware. It correctly identified my VGA card, CD, faxmodem and sound card and set them up without asking a lot of questions. I watched it hunt down and interrogate the modem (you know the kind, generic, white box, not a clue who built it). It left a text file describing the hardware hunt. Early in the installation process, the machine warned me that it had found OS2 on the hard drive (I'll swear it was holding its nose), and said I might not be able to use it after installing Windows-95. The instructions referred me to the "Setup.txt" file for further instructions re OS2. That file contains a couple lines about making OS2 work, and a couple paragraphs on deleting OS2 completely. I never did get real fond of OS2, anyway. It was slower than Windows 3.1 and tended to crash now and then. I got it to boot after the Win-95 install, and it worked , but it didn't like the new windows programs (surprise). I decided to kill off OS2 for now, I still have the two CD's it came on, and the dozen or so floppies full of patches that make the CD's work, so I can put it back on if I want to. OS-9000 and LINUX are still alive and well. I have to boot them from floppies now, because Windows-95 found and killed the boot manager I was using. It was the Mark Williams Boot Manager that came with COHERENT, and it had managed to survive and work long after I removed the COHERENT system, but it couldn't hide from Win-95. Snoopy and very selfish - - it wants the whole computer for itself. It didn't mess with the non-DOS partitions though. I finally found that boot manager stashed in a backup file. Might install it or LINUX LILO loader later -- floppy boots are OK for now. I have (so far) resisted the temptation to check out the Microsoft Network. I think I am subscribing to enough online services for now. (More than enough, some might say). I'll have to read the instructions -- maybe there are some free hours I can use and then quit. I did fill out the online registration form and let the machine zap it to an "800" number somewhere. I expect to get a lot of junk mail. This is painful to admit, fellow OS-9ers, but I think Mr. Gates and crew have done a pretty good job here. We can point out that OS-9, UNIX, (LINUX, etc), Macs, Amigas etc have been doing some of this for a long time, but now the OTHER 90% of the world has a pretty capable system. A good feature of Win-95 is the ability to set up "shortcuts". You can get into a program fairly fast, then shove that silly rodent to the back of the desk, grab the keyboard, and do something useful. I like that. John Wainwright -*- 93431 26-AUG 16:57 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429) From: BOISY To: JOHNREED > Another OS-9er in Windoze-land. Alas, I came back from California with a new 486DX/33 notebook so I can work on the road. And it has Windows 95 on it too. > I did fill out the online registration form and let the > machine zap it to an "800" number somewhere. I expect to > get a lot of junk mail. I did that too. Nice, easy way to register. > This is painful to admit, fellow OS-9ers, but I think Mr. > Gates and crew have done a pretty good job here. We can > point out that OS-9, UNIX, (LINUX, etc), Macs, Amigas etc > have been doing some of this for a long time, but now the > OTHER 90% of the world has a pretty capable system. Yes, I must agree here. It is a nice piece of software. -- Boisy G. Pitre__ __ __ Delphi: BOISY |_ _| \ \/ / CompuServe: 74464,3005 I use... _| |_ > < Internet: boisy@os9er.waukee.ia.us |_____|NFO/_/\_\PRESS 1.2.0 OS-9 -- King of Operating Systems -*- 93441 27-AUG 09:44 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429) From: JOHNBAER To: JOHNREED John, > OS-9000 and LINUX are still alive and well. I have to boot > them from floppies now, because Windows-95 found and killed > the boot manager I was using. Wonderfull.. did you get a prompt that this was going to happen, or did the installer just go ahead and do it ? > I did fill out the online registration form and let the > machine zap it to an "800" number somewhere. I expect to > get a lot of junk mail. I would be leery of using that. I don't have first hand experience with this, but have heard that it snoops your hard drive. John -*- 93442 27-AUG 11:45 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93377) From: 01GEN40 To: DBREEDING Hi Dave, The piece I posted here WAS greatly exaggerated, but, in my opinion so is Microsquish. I would say that this is were you read it. $300,000,000 for promotional gimics, HA! That would be equivalent of me spending $20.00 at an arcade! Must be nice to have that kind of dough to throw away. WINDOZE on a submarine? Give me a break, PLEASE! Although, if you think about it, there ARE submarines with windows. I DO NOT see his point of experiencing being on a sub- marine WITHOUT windows, do you? Is there supposed to be some sig- nificant value or point to that? If there is, I surely fail to see it. But, then again, I DO NOT see "through" WINDOZE. I went to the Computer Expo here in San Diego last weekend. Here is were they (Microsquish) debued(sp) WINDOZE 95. They had this 15 foot plexi-glass box filled with software packages. You had to make a correct guess as to how many boxes were in there and I guess you would win WINDOZE 95. My son and I bypassed their booth and went straight over to the OS/2 booth. They were giving away copies of OS/2 in their drawings. I did not enter any. Of course, I DID spend most of my time at the OS-9 booth. One thing puzzles me though, I fail to understand why it is catagorized as "New Tech- nology" Oh well, at least it was there, again. I must say that the UG did set up one impressive display booth. There were many people stopping by and asking questions. Too bad they did not get the MM/1 in time to display it as well. Thanks for the reply... See ya among the stars... LONG LIVE OS-9! ** In whatever form it is in! Peace and Long Life... Siran of Vulcan (CMDR) -= GEN =- -*- 93443 27-AUG 12:13 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93388) From: 01GEN40 To: WA2EGP >Actually the next release of BOB will have a second "O" in it. Somewhat >describes the user. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh, Oh NO... CRASH Falling out of chair! -*- 93450 27-AUG 15:47 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429) From: DBREEDING To: JOHNREED > Another OS-9er in Windoze-land. > > NO, this is NOT another "goodbye" note. OS-9 remains alive > and well on my desk, and the MM/1a will be my "main" > computer until it smokes or gets hopelessly outmoded -- then > I will get ANOTHER OS-9 machine. Well, as long as you're still faithful > OK, I couldn't resist the hype. I went out and bought > Windows-95 for the messydos machine. So far, so good. > Installation was pretty much "idiot-proof" and took about 45 > minutes. Was this a complete install? Any glitches we might need to know about? I don't have a MS-Dog, but my brother does, he's looking. > Windows-95 looks to me like a cross between a Mac > and OS2. Heh-heh.. Give ol' Bill some good models and he'll finally get it right... > Early in the installation process, the machine warned me > that it had found OS2 on the hard drive (I'll swear it was > holding its nose), And it probably was... ;-) > That file contains a couple lines about making OS2 work, and > a couple paragraphs on deleting OS2 completely. Guess they wanted to be sure you knew how to get rid of it > I never did get real fond of OS2, anyway. It was slower > than Windows 3.1 and tended to crash now and then. Oh.. Some swear by it.. I had thought I might want to go to it if I did get a PC. Maybe I ought to rethink.. > I have (so far) resisted the temptation to check out the > Microsoft Network. I think I am subscribing to enough > online services for now. (More than enough, some might > say). I'll have to read the instructions -- maybe there > are some free hours I can use and then quit. > > I did fill out the online registration form and let the > machine zap it to an "800" number somewhere. I expect to > get a lot of junk mail. Did you let it scan your system? I saw some rumors about that deal... dunno what's true, though.. > This is painful to admit, fellow OS-9ers, but I think Mr. > Gates and crew have done a pretty good job here. We can > point out that OS-9, UNIX, (LINUX, etc), Macs, Amigas etc > have been doing some of this for a long time, but now the > OTHER 90% of the world has a pretty capable system. This sounds like a really honest opinion.. I'm sure it's true. It's a shame, though, that this outfit was able to appropriate all the good stuff that the rest developed and claim it as their own. I guess it's a fact that this is the shape of things to come. I'd say they have won the war. No due to superiority, but the fact that the world of computer users is a bunch of sheep. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93460 27-AUG 16:56 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93441) From: DBREEDING To: JOHNBAER > > I did fill out the online registration form and let the > > machine zap it to an "800" number somewhere. I expect to > > get a lot of junk mail. > > I would be leery of using that. I don't have first hand experience > with this, but have heard that it snoops your hard drive. I had heard the same thing.. You are supposed to be able to "Just Say NO", but many have questioned whether you have any say about it It reminds one of the Prodigy rumor that floated around a few years back. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93462 27-AUG 16:57 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93442) From: DBREEDING To: 01GEN40 > The piece I posted here WAS greatly exaggerated, but, in my opinion > so is Microsquish. I would say that this is were you read it. Yeah, I saved it... just went back and dug it out. I really laughed at it. > I went to the Computer Expo here in San Diego last weekend. Here > is were they (Microsquish) debued(sp) WINDOZE 95. They had this 15 > foot plexi-glass box filled with software packages. You had to make > a correct guess as to how many boxes were in there and I guess you > would win WINDOZE 95. My son and I bypassed their booth and went > straight over to the OS/2 booth. They were giving away copies of > OS/2 in their drawings. I did not enter any. > Of course, I DID > spend most of my time at the OS-9 booth. One thing puzzles me > though, I fail to understand why it is catagorized as "New Tech- > nology" That is strange. Maybe if they call it new technology, they think people will suppose OS-9 copied all the neat stuff in Win 95 from _them_? And then they can say, if that is not enough, look at all the neat features the Mac ripped off them (about 15 years ago). > Oh well, at least it was there, again. I must say that > the UG did set up one impressive display booth. There were many > people stopping by and asking questions. Perhaps it will draw a new user or two. Events like that is where I would like to see some really neat new apps displayed. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93475 28-AUG 19:17 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93462) From: JMURPHY To: DBREEDING > That is strange. Maybe if they call it new technology, they think > people will suppose OS-9 copied all the neat stuff in Win 95 from _them_? > And then they can say, if that is not enough, look at all the neat > features the Mac ripped off them (about 15 years ago). 15 years ago, the Mac didn't exist. 15 years ago the IBM PC didn't exist. But, yeah, we know what you mean. John Murphy -*- 93482 29-AUG 00:36 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93443) From: WA2EGP To: 01GEN40 Geez......Great, a crash even before it is released (grin). -*- 93495 29-AUG 19:57 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93475) From: DBREEDING To: JMURPHY > > That is strange. Maybe if they call it new technology, they think > > people will suppose OS-9 copied all the neat stuff in Win 95 from > _them_? > And then they can say, if that is not enough, look at all the > neat > features the Mac ripped off them (about 15 years ago). > > 15 years ago, the Mac didn't exist. > 15 years ago the IBM PC didn't exist. > > But, yeah, we know what you mean. Well, I _did_ say "about".. Wanted to make it sound as good as possible. But it is true.. neither did exist at that time.. I do stand corrected.. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93504 30-AUG 03:09 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429) From: COCOKIWI To: JOHNREED only problem with short cuts..IS...tis a memory hog! 360 bytes take up 32k on the disk! aDD up all the SHORTCUTS and what do you get! LOTS of lost Hard Drive space! I have WIN95 too! Had it TWO months ago! Pre release version...+ a JUNE release.....I got the Main one the Morning After it came out!...get yourself a copy of "PC Computing" september 95 I think you will like some of the hints contained there in! once everyone upgrades ALL their OLD copies of programs! it will work well! BUT! There will be the ones that insist on using Their OLD program,that will TRASH the hard drive! ANY program that uses DIRECT access to the drive,like a DISK util......will do it! I suppose someone will come out with a program that will put ALL the Shortcut info into one file,rather than spreed em around! Dennis -*- 93505 30-AUG 03:13 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93441) From: COCOKIWI To: JOHNBAER Yes it do! BUT you do NOT have to release it! BOX for one to choose! It scans the System to see what you have installed,pops up a list,and ask's you if you want to send that stuff with the Reg ..info!!!!! Dennis -*- 93508 30-AUG 19:09 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93441) From: JOHNREED To: JOHNBAER > > Wonderfull.. did you get a prompt that this was going to happen, > or did the installer just go ahead and do it ? No warning during the install, but I did find a few words about beating up on boot managers in the text files, and it left the old one in a backup file. I installed the Linux "LILO" loader today, and it works with all three opsystems (WIN/OS9K/Linux). OS-9000 still refuses to boot unless it's partition is the "active" one, but the other two don't seem to care, so that's OK. > > I would be leery of using that. I don't have first hand experience > with this, but have heard that it snoops your hard drive. > Aw c'mon, that would be a new level of sleaze, and maybe the makings of a lawsuit that would be a lot of fun. I assume the "online registration" reported on installed hardware, and maybe even software. Hmmm, that would be an interesting "anti-piracy" tactic, wouldn't it? (Picturing a version of Wordperfect or AutoCad that looks for a live modem and "phones home" ... interesting thought.) JohnW -*- 93519 31-AUG 19:13 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93504) From: JOHNREED To: COCOKIWI > only problem with short cuts..IS...tis a memory hog! 360 bytes take up > 32k on the disk! aDD up all the SHORTCUTS and what do you get! LOTS of Well, it is a Microsoft product -- no surprise that it hogs memory. > program,that will TRASH the hard drive! ANY program that > uses DIRECT access to the drive,like a DISK util......will do it! Whoops! I am lucky I haven't done it already. No real big deal tho, the "486" is my "toy". All important stuff is on the MM/1. I play with the 486 so much that I kind of expect to have to rebuild the thing every couple months. (And I make a LOT of tapes). JohnW -*- 93527 2-SEP 03:55 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93519) From: COCOKIWI To: JOHNREED ......some older programs like XTREE GOLD will zap it!......BUT! WIN95 WILL WARN you That the program you ARE Going to USE Has a problem with 95! Be IT on ONES SELF if you DO!.....It aint BaD! Just make sure one UPGRADES .....ALL......Older........Programs! And get upgrade ,,soon maybe? That depends if the Company you brought the program HAS one YET! Drivers !!!!..........Mouse Systems.................JACTARA......video system.........End of Sept!....... Dennis -*- 93534 3-SEP 12:08 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93462) From: 01GEN40 To: DBREEDING Hi Dave, Ya know what really gets my goat? Lately, I have been reading and hearing so much about how Bill Gates "created MS-DOS"! We all know that he did NOT create it, he got the code from the true creator and put his name on it. Is the PC world so neive that they do not know the TRUE story, or are they just so caught up in GATES little world that they just say that HE IS THE CREATOR? I am so glad that we do not have this kind of mis-information and mis-direc- tion in our BIG world of OS-9. Thanks for the reply... See ya among the stars... LONG LIVE OS-9! ** In whatever form it is in! Peace and Long Life... Siran of Vulcan (CMDR) -= GEN =- -*- 93538 3-SEP 16:23 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93534) From: DBREEDING To: 01GEN40 > Ya know what really gets my goat? Lately, I have been reading > and hearing so much about how Bill Gates "created MS-DOS"! We all > know that he did NOT create it, he got the code from the true > creator and put his name on it. Is the PC world so neive that they > do not know the TRUE story, or are they just so caught up in GATES > little world that they just say that HE IS THE CREATOR? Well, IMO, it was IBM that made Bill Gates. I have heard people, when contemplating buying a system, without hesitation, indicated that they would go straight to IBM. From this, the more cost-conscious buyers wanted IBM, or figured that if IBM did it, it had to be good, flocked to the clones. After the ball got rolling, more and more people followed like sheep, and eventually, it got to where this market was where all the software authors could make any money. The Mac has a pretty fair market, but the _big_ slice of pie is in the MS-Dos world. > I am so > glad that we do not have this kind of mis-information and mis-direc- > tion in our BIG world of OS-9. Yeah. The only mis-information regarding OS-9 is that the "media" tends to try to ignore it. I have watched reports on the Video-on-Demand project. They talk like it's MS-Dos that is operating the system. I have seen them even come out and say as much, or else make no mention of what system is driving it and just leave the impression that it is MS-Dos. It may be that the development out on the west coast might be trying to plod along with them, but the Atlantic Bell system is using a MicroWare product. A little modified from our system, but the same thing. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93552 4-SEP 15:25 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429) From: MIKE_GUZZI To: JOHNREED i saw win-95 on a friends machine, i was not impressed since it really doesn't give him much more, Plus im playing with linux now. I don't like the fact win-95 takes more control away from you and the technical info is an extra $50. the dos emulation is not that good and my friend says alot of dos stuff doesn't work and several win-31 programs do not work as well. ah, i only have win-31 on my 486 because I HAVE TO to run certain programs. otherwise id wipe it out. I like to have control over my computer. Mike -*- 93564 5-SEP 01:29 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93538) From: PAGAN To: DBREEDING >Yeah. The only mis-information regarding OS-9 is that the "media" >tends to try to ignore it. I have watched reports on the >Video-on-Demand project. They talk like it's MS-Dos that is >operating the system. I have seen them even come out and say as >much, or else make no mention of what system is driving it and just >leave the impression that it is MS-Dos. More likely it's because they're ignorant. >It may be that the development out on the west coast might be trying >to plod along with them, but the Atlantic Bell system is using a >MicroWare product. A little modified from our system, but the same >thing. I don't think so. I can't find the source on this right now (my wife pesterd me so much I cleaned up the den) but I read that PacTel (the CA/NV RBOC) is considering the same system as Bell Atlantic and Nynex are implementing. There isn't really much choice unless they want to start from scratch. Once the decision was made to go with OS9 in the East, the set top manufacturers started building boxes. There is already a substantial financial commitment in this market to OS9; changing now would mean losing money -- ever hear of the phone company losing money if they could avoid it? Also, Motorola has invested in ITV and VOD and has bought an interest in Microware (8%?). I don;t know how far the partnership goes but if it's tight, this will give Microware an inside track onto Iridium A caveat here. I've heard thru the grapevine that the specs on the settop API's are being written to be opsys independent. I have a hunch the RBOCs looked at what happen to the business computer market and don't want to be trapped the way most businesses are. It's true that OS9's modular design provides an upgrade path that other operating systems can't compete with yet but, remember, OS9 came out of left field for most of the people who are implementing the VOD and ITV networks so they don't know what they're dealing with yet and are probably a little scared of it. Unless Microware drops the ball and walks off the field, Microsoft doesn't have much of a chance in the ITV market unless they want to build the infrastructure themselves (or buy out the phone company :-). Microsoft has a _TERRIBLE_ reputation for bad behavior in partnerships. To exploit a market as big as the whole embedded scene (including ITV and VOD) looks like it will become will take cooperation between suppliers. Cooperation is essential and Microsoft doesn't cooperate well. There's also the not-so-small matter of all the hype associated with Win95. If you work with marketing types for a while you start to understand what indicates whether a company is doing well or not. One indicator is called the "Law" of hype -- things are not alway the way they appear in the press. When a company is doing well, it doesn't need the hype. When it does need the hype it usually means it's in trouble. The only real weakness I can see is that the current plans are downstream biased. This bias isn't built into DAVID but the consumer won't know that and may associate it with the product. It's more likely tho the provider will get the "blame." Stephen Carville (PAGAN) The most beautiful thing about a mystery is how it looks after you solve it. -*- 93567 5-SEP 07:32 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93534) From: DSRTFOX To: 01GEN40 On 3-SEP 12:08 01GEN40 said to DBREEDING > Hi Dave, > Ya know what really gets my goat? Lately, I have been reading > and hearing so much about how Bill Gates "created MS-DOS"! We all > know that he did NOT create it, he got the code from the true > creator and put his name on it. Is the PC world so neive that they > do not know the TRUE story, or are they just so caught up in GATES > little world that they just say that HE IS THE CREATOR? I am so > glad that we do not have this kind of mis-information and mis-direc- > tion in our BIG world of OS-9. > Thanks for the reply... See ya among the stars... > LONG LIVE OS-9! ** In whatever form it is in! > Peace and Long Life... > Siran of Vulcan (CMDR) > -= GEN =- Actually, Gates did "create" MS-DOS as it is known today. Yes, he bought a system that was working and used that as a base to work from, but he did re-work the code and write a lot of extras to go along with it. Try writing some device drivers or modifying a lot of the OS-9 code yourself. Then you'll appreciate the effort that has gone into improving MS-DOS over the years. Now I still think it is a bloated system, but given what it has to run on, it can't be helped.... ;> Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;33;43mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93569 5-SEP 20:30 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429) From: CLTUCKER To: JOHNREED Overheard your "kill off OS2 remark" in last message. I just got a 486 that has junk on it. How do you go about killing off something? I'm mew on this PC.(g) cl -*- 93570 5-SEP 21:35 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93552) From: JOHNREED To: MIKE_GUZZI > > ah, i only have win-31 on my 486 because I HAVE TO to run certain > programs. otherwise id wipe it out. I like to have control over my > computer. The reason for keeping a working messydos machine in the house is the same as the reason they tried to teach me Latin in high school. Its a useless dead language, but a lot of other things are based on it. AND, remember, many people are scared to death of having control over their computer. (GRIN). John -*- 93571 5-SEP 21:51 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93569) From: JOHNREED To: CLTUCKER > Overheard your "kill off OS2 remark" in last message. I just got a 486 > that has junk on it. How do you go about killing off something? I'm mew > on this PC.(g) > cl > Er, kinda depends on what you want to get rid of. Before engaging in wholsale directory slaughter, make sure you are not wiping out something you really want. Back up everything first. If you can describe the "junk" I will try to come up with a more specific reply. Might be better to do it via EMAIL - we are drifting out of OS9-land here (GRIN). -*- 93573 6-SEP 15:00 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93570) From: MIKE_GUZZI To: JOHNREED ain't that the truth ! mike -*- 93576 6-SEP 19:47 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93564) From: DBREEDING To: PAGAN Stephen, it's good to hear from you again. I'll not quote a lot of your post, but it sounds very much to the point and reassuring. > >Yeah. The only mis-information regarding OS-9 is that the "media" > >tends to try to ignore it. I have watched reports on the > >Video-on-Demand project. They talk like it's MS-Dos that is > >operating the system. > More likely it's because they're ignorant. It could very well be that or they may just want to stay on the good side of MS, but it can be quite aggravating to hear people who are supposedly "in the know" be so far off base. It was in the post here that was quoted from the Wall Street Journal, I believe, where it was stated that MS was trying to get the contract, but their system could just not measure up. > >It may be that the development out on the west coast might be trying > >to plod along with them, but the Atlantic Bell system is using a > >MicroWare product. A little modified from our system, but the same > >thing. > > I don't think so. What you said in the following sounds quite valid and reasonable. Unless there was some kind of "bed-fellowship", I cannot see why they would choose MS on the West coast, since it didn't measure up on the east. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93579 6-SEP 22:47 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93564) From: JEJONES To: PAGAN > Also, Motorola has invested in ITV and VOD and has bought an > interest in Microware (8%?). 11%, with an option on an additional amount (14% if I remember rightly) in the future--at least, that's what I read in the papers. Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors. -*- 93587 7-SEP 22:32 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93564) From: WDTV5 To: PAGAN I LIKE your sig! Cheers, Gene -*- 93588 7-SEP 22:36 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93567) From: WDTV5 To: DSRTFOX Frank, theres a lot of people, including Gary Kildall (Digital Research) who would dispute the word "bought" with reference to how Gates got the first copy of cpm86 and renamed it ms-dos. Just my .02$ worth. Cheers, Gene -*- 93591 8-SEP 00:22 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93588) From: JMURPHY To: WDTV5 > Frank, theres a lot of people, including Gary Kildall (Digital Research) > who would dispute the word "bought" with reference to how Gates got the > first copy of cpm86 and renamed it ms-dos. Just my .02$ worth. > Cheers, Gene > Gates didn't buy CPM86. Nor did he rename it. CPM86 wasn't ready, (or Kildall didn't want to talk to IBM) so IBM started shopping around for another OS vendor. Microsoft happened to be available. MS then bought the rights to a totally different OS, from a totally different company. DR had nothing to do with it. John -*- 93598 9-SEP 01:36 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93591) From: WDTV5 To: JMURPHY Thats the world according to Bill John, Gary has argued that point in print many, many times in the last 15 years. Cheers, Gene -*- 93610 10-SEP 02:54 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93538) From: BROWN80 To: DBREEDING There is a Windows video on demand project. TCI, the largest MSO, is trying it. Name recognition is important. Just because DAVID is better may not mean as much as Microsoft and TCI to some cable and Telecom executives. My company is upgrading its systems to the latest Scientific Atlantic addressable converters. (along with fiber optics, greater bandwidth, two way data trans- mition, automatic pay per view capabilities, and limited telephony options) We have used a Compaq 286 running Xenix V for many years and it has worked flawlessly. The new system uses a high end PS/2 running (you guessed it) Windows. Ignorance is bliss. There are a lot of blissful people out there, and they make many important decissions about those things which they are most ignorant about. Business doesn't produce goods and services any more, it produces money. John Brown -*- 93611 10-SEP 11:32 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93610) From: JEJONES To: BROWN80 > There is a Windows video on demand project. TCI, the largest MSO, is > trying it. Name recognition is important. Just because DAVID is better > may not mean as much as Microsoft and TCI to some cable and Telecom > executives. Well, yes, but...the companies that have announced that they will use DAVID inclusive-or be compatible with DAVID have considerably more name recognition than Microware, and I'd say that some of them have as much name recognition as Microsoft. Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors. -*- 93612 10-SEP 11:48 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93538) From: 01GEN40 To: DBREEDING Hi Dave, I do agree with you when you say that "IBM made Bill Gates." Then again, I think, if it were not for IBM and Intel, the PC would not be what it is today. I have to wonder though, when IBM was looking for a DOS for their NEW machine, was OS-9 or UNIX for that matter even considered? Would Bill Gates be on "the throne" if IBM would have gone with CP/M? I do have to admit, somewhat reluctantly, that I do admire Gates for what he has acheived, although I do not agree with some of his tactics, my hat IS off to him. Ya know, I really did like the song "Start Me Up" by the Stones, but now when I am listening to the radio and here it, I think I am listening to a WINDOZE 95 commercial. I guess Gates likes the Stones music too! Thanks for the reply... See ya among the stars... LONG LIVE OS-9! ** In whatever form it is in! Peace and Long Life... Siran of Vulcan (CMDR) -= GEN =- -*- 93614 10-SEP 12:15 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93567) From: 01GEN40 To: DSRTFOX Hi Frank, Sorry, but I have to agree and dis-agree. Sure, Gates did improve upon MS-DOS, but it is still NOT up to speed with OS-9. I look at DOS from the point of veiw of this SIG. OS-9 has come a long way since it was first released by Radio Shack. Look at all the patches and major module re-writes of OS-9. Most have been done by the "BIG GUN" gurus in the know. I myself have even contributed, albeit in a very small way, when I made a patch to INIT so cc3go does not remain in memory. That is not to say that "we" created OS-9, "we" have just created its improvements. IMHO Gates, or the people in his employ, have created the improvements, for what they are worth, upon DOS. INIT was created by the people at Microware, I just created an im- provement to it. Thanks for the reply... See ya among the stars... LONG LIVE OS-9! ** In whatever form it is in! Peace and Long Life... Siran of Vulcan (CMDR) -= GEN =- -*- 93616 10-SEP 14:31 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93610) From: DBREEDING To: BROWN80 > There is a Windows video on demand project. TCI, the largest MSO, is > trying it. I had heard that they were trying, but was not sure. > Name recognition is important. Just because DAVID is better > may not mean as much as Microsoft and TCI to some cable and Telecom > executives. > Ignorance is bliss. There are a lot of blissful > people out there, and they make many important decissions about those > things which they are most ignorant about. That is very true. Maybe there will be someone who might be wise enough to make the right choice. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93617 10-SEP 16:30 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93612) From: JEJONES To: 01GEN40 (NR) > Ya know, I really did like the song "Start Me Up" by the Stones... But will Windows 95 "make a grown man cry"? Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors. -*- 93621 10-SEP 19:17 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93610) From: PAGAN To: BROWN80 >There is a Windows video on demand project. TCI, the largest MSO, >is trying it. Name recognition is important. Just because DAVID is >better may not mean as much as Microsoft and TCI to some cable and >Telecom executives. I remember a bit about that (modular Windows - right?). As I recall it has a major downstream bias which may sound good to the execs in charge but, based on the popularity for the Internet, I think the consumer is going to demand full upstream capability too. The age of the closed system where the broadcaster provides to you what they think you want is dying fast. Now, businesses and induividuals want to be able to connect to the networks as providers as well as a consumers of information. DAVID provides for full speed connections *both* ways (no bias) even tho the current implementations aren't taking advantage of it. The Microsoft name may be important to some executive types and Gates may take advantage of this and extend the Microsoft name to his VOD products. Doing so he runs the risk of "line extension" and having all associated products judged by the performance of his _worst_ products. Ever wonder why the big auto manufacturers have different names for the same car? Remember the adverse effect the Pinto had on Ford sales? Didn't hurt Mercury tho. How about the Corvair and Vega for Chevrolet? Pontiacs still sold just as well. Microware is playing a much smarter marketing game by keeping the OS9 name separate from CD-I separate from DAVID. Even if DAVID flops, the failure won't be name associated with Microware's other products. DAVID also the advantage of being first in the market. If it succeeds, this establishes it in a position of leadership and everyone else will have to play catch up. Stephen Carville (PAGAN) It was proper to be skeptical of Galileo's claims. It was a crime to refuse to look thru his telescope. -*- 93625 10-SEP 21:20 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93612) From: DBREEDING To: 01GEN40 (NR) > I do agree with you when you say that "IBM made Bill Gates." Then > again, I think, if it were not for IBM and Intel, the PC would not be > what it is today. It would probably be different, whether better or not is the $64 question. Apple would undoubtedly have gotten a much bigger share of the market. Whether they would have been pushed to develop as far and as fast as they have is uncertain to me. It could be that, had they have had the larger market, they could have developed faster, but the cost of the machines might have remained high. But, it could well be that third-party manufacturers would have offered alternatives and have pushed the price down as well. IMO, the only good thing coming from the IBM/MS "takeover" was that we now have very affordable machines. But it's a sure-fire thing that this was not done according to IBM's wishes. > I have to wonder though, when IBM was looking for > a DOS for their NEW machine, was OS-9 or UNIX for that matter even > considered? I really don't know. I have a feeling that Microware and probably the owners of UNIX (Bell Labs??) probably asked IBM more than they wanted to pay for license fees and thought they could get by cheap with MS-Dos. Actually, I wonder if IBM even expected the PC marked to even last. > Would Bill Gates be on "the throne" if IBM would have > gone with CP/M? I seriously doubt it but it's something we will now never know. Of course Radio Shack chose MS-Basic for their systems. Had IBM not have come in, it's possible that R-S would have had more influence in the market. > I do have to admit, somewhat reluctantly, that I do > admire Gates for what he has acheived, although I do not agree with > some of his tactics, my hat IS off to him. Well, I'm sure he is a man of vision, but the fact that he was at the right place at the right time did not hurt. Whether the fact that he _was_ at that spot was entirely his own doing or just a matter of luck is another matter. I'm sure he was to some extent the master of his own fate. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93626 10-SEP 22:02 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93598) From: JMURPHY To: WDTV5 > Thats the world according to Bill John, Gary has argued that point in print > many, many times in the last 15 years. > Cheers, Gene > Kildall himself has acknowledged that when IBM came calling he was not available. Popular myth is that he was not available because he was joyriding in his private plane. Kildall disputes with popular myth, and I'm very much inclined to believe his version. The facts remain: CPM86 was not available to IBM on IBM's schedule, nor was Kildall himself available to IBM on IBM's schedule. Kildall does not dispute this. So how is any of this Gates' fault? And what does any of this have to do with OS-9? John -*- 93630 11-SEP 01:25 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93612) From: COCOKIWI To: 01GEN40 (NR) Funny you should ssay that! a long time ago I heard that IBM was tosssing up which IC to go with Intel or MOTOROLA...<6809>..BUT! at the time 6809,s were in short supply,SOooooo! The rest is History!They went with the supply and demand!........Just think! IF they HAD used the 6809!!!!! Dennis -*- 93632 11-SEP 07:25 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93569) From: DSRTFOX To: CLTUCKER On 5-SEP 20:30 CLTUCKER said to JOHNREED > Overheard your "kill off OS2 remark" in last message. I just got a 486 > that has junk on it. How do you go about killing off something? I'm mew > on this PC.(g) > cl from the "C:" prompt, type "format C:". That will do it every time.... ;> Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;30;40mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93633 11-SEP 07:25 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93588) From: DSRTFOX To: WDTV5 On 7-SEP 22:36 WDTV5 said to DSRTFOX > Frank, theres a lot of people, including Gary Kildall (Digital >Research) who would dispute the word "bought" with reference to how >Gates got the first copy of cpm86 and renamed it ms-dos. Just my .02$ >worth. Cheers, Gene I know the story. Fact remains that Gates DID buy a legit license to CPM86 though. Now how much of the code he copied rather than wrote from scratch is somethng for the legal types to determine, and I guess that never happened. Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;37;46mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93634 11-SEP 07:51 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93614) From: DSRTFOX To: 01GEN40 (NR) When comparing MS-DOS to OS-9, I agree that OS-9 would have been the better choice, and IBM may have considered it at one point.. or most likely would have. You see, they looked at Motorola processors before choosing Intel. They considered everything on the current market. The 68xxx chips weren't all ready at the time, and since the 6809 wasn't going to be fully downward compatible with the 68K series, they chose Intel instead. Got this from a person who worked for IBM at the time! Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;33;47mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93639 11-SEP 23:54 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93626) From: WDTV5 To: JMURPHY Do with os9? Beats me John. I was just refreshing the rumors/facts as the case may be. Cheers John, Gene -*- 93641 12-SEP 00:01 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93633) From: WDTV5 To: DSRTFOX I've not saw where Gary ever said that a license was sold to Gates. Thats not to sayit didn't happen, only that I missed that chapter in this saga. Cheers, Gene -*- 93650 15-SEP 06:50 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93641) From: DSRTFOX To: WDTV5 On 12-SEP 00:01 WDTV5 said to DSRTFOX > I've not saw where Gary ever said that a license was sold to Gates. >Thats not to sayit didn't happen, only that I missed that chapter in >this saga. Cheers, Gene Gates didn't buy a license from Digital itself... he bought out a company that had a license, taking over their license with everything else. Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;31;44mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93651 15-SEP 22:03 General Information RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93650) From: WDTV5 To: DSRTFOX (NR) Humm, possibly so, but I've never saw that in print. Some of the stories have been fairly acrimonious that I have read. Maybe I should been born in Missouri ;:) Cheers Frank, Gene -*- End of Thread. -*- 93374 21-AUG 21:26 General Information RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93366) From: JOHNBAER To: DBREEDING > I got it. Haven't looked at it yet, but expect it to be quite > informative. I'll tell you, it helped me to `get' files from the wuarchive site. That is _one_ busy site . Just read it over, you'll get the feel of it. If you need help, just ask. :) -- John - Windows isn't a virus .. Virus's _do_ something. -*- 93398 23-AUG 22:22 General Information RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93374) From: DBREEDING To: JOHNBAER > > I got it. Haven't looked at it yet, but expect it to be quite > > informative. > > I'll tell you, it helped me to `get' files from the wuarchive site. > That is _one_ busy site . Just read it over, you'll get the feel > of it. If you need help, just ask. :) I did scan over it. I intend to print it out. I can get lots more if it's on paper. It did look interesting. As of now, the only internet access I have is here and on CI$. I think I finally got to where I could navigate and get files through the Delphi FTP option. I had a little problem but thanks to some, I believe you gave me some tips, I got to where I could use it. The most of internet is still an unexplored area for me. I have not yet ventured very far out. Ohh, if we had a web browser. This is a project I would like to partake in, but probably by the time I would take a notion to get started, someone would already have a nice one up and running - of course, I wish they would -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93417 24-AUG 22:59 General Information RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93398) From: JOHNBAER To: DBREEDING David, > As of now, the only internet access I have is here and on CI$. I think > I finally got to where I could navigate and get files through the Delphi > FTP option. I had a little problem but thanks to some, I believe you > gave me some tips, I got to where I could use it. Don't hesitate to ask questions. I'm sure someone here can answer questions for you. And you can download the `roadmap.lzh' file and have a ball . > The most of internet is still an unexplored area for me. I have not > yet ventured very far out. For me, internet mail, ftp, a little gopher, and now ftp-mail in that order . > Ohh, if we had a web browser. This is a project I would like to partake > in, but probably by the time I would take a notion to get started, > someone would already have a nice one up and running - of course, I wish > they would I think that this would be a tough one, with Gwindows, Kwindows, MGR... Not easy I would think... John - -*- 93434 26-AUG 23:06 General Information RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93417) From: DBREEDING To: JOHNBAER > > I finally got to where I could navigate and get files through the > Delphi > FTP option. I had a little problem but thanks to some, I believe > you > gave me some tips, I got to where I could use it. > > Don't hesitate to ask questions. I'm sure someone here can answer > questions for you. And you can download the `roadmap.lzh' file and > have a ball . I have roadmap, but it's another of the things I have stored and not yet reviewed > > The most of internet is still an unexplored area for me. I have not > > yet ventured very far out. > > For me, internet mail, ftp, a little gopher, and now ftp-mail in that > order . Well, I've done some inet mail, and a little ftp, and that's about it. I read the cocolist and comp.os.os9. Right now, I just cannot invest in the long distance charges to do a lot of newsgroups. Hopefully I will have local access soon. We have one BBS that does a daily exchange, but I think at this time, what use I make of the internet can be more efficiently done here or on CIS. > > Ohh, if we had a web browser. > I think that this would be a tough one, with Gwindows, Kwindows, MGR... > Not easy I would think... IMO, one could probably get one where it could kinda connect fairly quickly. The big problem is in all the little obscure facets. I took a quick look at the posiblity of writing a RIP terminal program. In looking at the commands, I found that most of the basic commands are already implemented in G-Windows, that is, circle, arc, etc... I'm sure there are the same in K-W and the CoCo also has these primitives, so this would probably be just a matter of incorporating them into the program. With RIP, I think the bigget job might be in interpreting the graphics files you download. I have no info on WWW, so don't really know how big a job it would be. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93439 27-AUG 08:16 General Information RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93434) From: JOHNREED To: DBREEDING > I took a quick look at the posiblity of writing a RIP terminal program. > In looking at the commands, I found that most of the basic commands are > already implemented in G-Windows, that is, circle, arc, etc... I'm sure > there are the same in K-W and the CoCo also has these primitives, so this > would probably be just a matter of incorporating them into the program. > With RIP, I think the bigget job might be in interpreting the graphics > files you download. > Someone has suggested this before, but what would be really nice is a kind of "graphcap" system. Some kind of universal graphics module that sits in memory (like cio?), accepts some standard graphics commands and displays them on the Kwindows, Gwindows, Xwindows, MGR or whatever Wonderful New Windowing System comes out next week. It would be slow, and eat up some memory, but it should be at least POSSIBLE. I fear this project would require a programmer with a lot more time (and skill) than me. (But I'm thinking about it, anyway). BTW, David, that little blurb I posted on my new toy yesterday was supposed to be addressed to "ALL", I tried to tack it onto that thread and just change the addressee, but somehow I screwed it up and it kept your ID in the header. (Oh well, everybody reads most of the stuff anyway -- GRIN). John Wainwright -*- 93440 27-AUG 09:43 General Information RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93434) From: JOHNBAER To: DBREEDING David, > I have roadmap, but it's another of the things I have stored and not yet > reviewed Now your starting to sound like me... 8^> > .. I read the cocolist and comp.os.os9. Right now, I just cannot invest > in the long distance charges to do a lot of newsgroups. In case you didn't know, buffer capture it. When your at the point where Delphi's reader tells you how many messages are `unread' and how many `you have read' just open your buffer and type ` unread nonstop ' and away you go. Do this for each group you want to read off line. > I took a quick look at the posiblity of writing a RIP terminal program. Humm, I don't login to dos bbs so I have no idea about it. > I have no info on WWW, so don't really know how big a job it would be. I feel that you would wind up reverse engineering it. Companies like netscape won't tell you what the `codes' are that are used. John -*- 93459 27-AUG 16:56 General Information RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93440) From: DBREEDING To: JOHNBAER > > I have roadmap, but it's another of the things I have stored and not > yet > reviewed > > Now your starting to sound like me... 8^> Yeah, I get into so many things that it seems I cannot get to it all... :-( > > .. I read the cocolist and comp.os.os9. > In case you didn't know, buffer capture it. When your at the point > where Delphi's reader tells you how many messages are `unread' and how > many `you have read' just open your buffer and type ` unread nonstop ' > and away you go. Do this for each group you want to read off line. This is what I do. I capture it all and then run it through ved, deleting most and cutting-and-saving some messages that I want to keep. > > I took a quick look at the posiblity of writing a RIP terminal program. > > Humm, I don't login to dos bbs so I have no idea about it. I would love to see more stuff like this just for the show-off value more than anything > > I have no info on WWW, so don't really know how big a job it would be. > > I feel that you would wind up reverse engineering it. Companies like > netscape won't tell you what the `codes' are that are used. It would be harder to do like that. I have not explored the aspects of it, and, as you said, it would probably be a little hard to get right. The problem with such projects as this is that you can probably get something that will "kind of" run, but it takes forever to get all the little fine points worked out right. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93463 27-AUG 17:10 General Information RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93439) From: DBREEDING To: JOHNREED > > I took a quick look at the posiblity of writing a RIP terminal program. > Someone has suggested this before, Might have been me > but what would be really nice is a > kind of "graphcap" system. Some kind of universal graphics module that > sits in memory (like cio?), accepts some standard graphics commands and > displays them on the Kwindows, Gwindows, Xwindows, MGR or whatever This is exactly what I had thought we need. It would work something like gfx2. You would send it a command with the applicable parameters and then this module could do the dirty work. > It would be slow, > and eat up some memory, but it should be at least POSSIBLE. Yes, it would incur a speed hit.. how much would be hard to say... It would depend on how frequently the calls would be made. It might be that something like this would be too slow for comm work using a high speed modem, but might be worth a try. > I fear > this project would require a programmer with a lot more time (and skill) > than me. (But I'm thinking about it, anyway). Not really. The big job at hand would be to get a common calling protocol. Then a programmer for each platform could write the individual code. A project like this would require some careful thought and would need to get the protocol standardized before starting. This might be a project to be carried on throught the OS9 UG. It would simplify programming for the graphical windows. The other possibility would be to write the program and all graphical work could be carried out within one file containing the functions to do that. Then if I, say wrote a program for G-Windows, I could pass the code on to an MM/1 programmer and all he should have to do would be to edit this one file. Whatever we do, though, we do need some way to get the good graphics programs to run on all systems. It is a little sad right now to see some really great piece of work for K-Windows, for example, but G-Windows users not being able to use it, and vice versa.. > BTW, David, that little blurb I posted on my new toy yesterday was > supposed to be addressed to "ALL", I tried to tack it onto that thread > and just change the addressee, Yes, I figured that your post was more of this nature. It's easy to fail to get it changed right. I replied to it anyway .. As you say, I expect everyone will be able to see it anyway. P.S. This thread must be jinxed. I just posted a reply and it got addressed to myself <:-( -*- End of Thread. -*- 93376 21-AUG 21:36 General Information The Pink Rose bbs From: MDALENE To: ALL +====================================================================+ |,-----, , , ,--, ,-----, --- ,--, | , ,-----, ,--, ,-, ,--, | | | |--| |- | | | | | |--, | | | | `-, |- | | | | | |--` |-----` --- | | | | |-----` `--` `--` `--` | | | | | | | | ` ` ` `- | | | | Open 24 Hours ,----, ,----, ,-----, 300-9600 BPS | | 7 Days a Week | | | | | off line mail | | CD-ROM Access |-----, |-----, `-----, (203)423-2782 | | Online Games | | | | | SYSOP: | | Fido 1:327/6338 `-----` `-----` `-----` Michele Marie Dalene| +====================================================================+ Specializing in Science fiction, and older computer systems/hardware support. The Pink Rose offers unlimited online access to over 60 message bases, and over 1800 files covering topics from Technical support, books and magizines to Maximus. Opus, Remote Access, Teleguard and Kitten bbs software. Soon to be opening the CP/M file libriary. NOW LOCAL TO NORWICH!!!!!! During the slow months of summer. why not take a lesiurly stroll along the many file marts of The Pink Rose. New users get 800K of downloads per day and users who donate computer equipment or money can get even more download bytes and online time. 300 baud callers are gladly accepted. As are Commodore, Tandy Color Computer and Dec 100 Rainbow computer users. The Pink Rose specializes in older computer software and support! The Pink Rose welcomes anyone, and we do not descriminate against 300 baud callers or users of older computer hardware/software. -*- 93379 22-AUG 01:10 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93369) From: MITHELEN To: WDTV5 Do you have the "oskar" disassembler for OSK? Perhaps it will do the job for you.. if you need it.. let me know and I'll mail ya a copy... -- Paul -*- 93389 23-AUG 00:54 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93379) From: WDTV5 To: MITHELEN 'Fraid I don't. Would it run on the ami? Or could it be made to run on amigados3.1? Thats the one major missing item for it, a good pd disassembler. I've got a copy of the resource demo, it can't save, but it doesn't terribly impress me at all. Matt Dillon used to have one that came with D.I.C.E., but since about 2.26, its not been on the distribution disks. ADis si also a candidate, but its not too bulletproof either, takes it half a page of binary to get in time again if the starter address given is not at an instruction boundary. Or at least the copies I have do. They are a bit old, not much has been done in the last 2-3 years on them. Sad. Cheers, Gene -*- 93390 23-AUG 01:41 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93389) From: MITHELEN To: WDTV5 oskar is for OS-9/68k... I don't think source is available... I can't even recall exactly who I got it from (someone in Europe I believe) Not being and assembly type, I have never paid much attention to it... I do have it sitting in the archives on SandV though... -- Paul -*- 93399 23-AUG 22:22 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93369) From: DBREEDING To: WDTV5 > unforch, the drivers source isn't available, and I've not found a disasm > for it that actually works yet, at least not near as well as the ones we > have for the coco. What I did was copy the source listed in OS9 Insights. The driver for my System 5 was modelled after it. I edited it by hand till I got it to assemble the identically same module. I then went to work making my changes. As of now, it seems to work quite well. I added an automatic Hardware Flow control routine to replace XOn/XOff, or in addition to it. Mine is rather crude, but it appears to be doing the job. > Pity. I just fiddled with a bunch of the options, and > altho I did get a 1.2 meg/sec plus write speed, thats not going to help. That's with your driver? > When it shuts to irq's off to write to the disk, all hell breaks loose > in the relativly unbuffered seriel ports, nobody has seen fit to make > us a board that uses the 16550 yet. What system do you have? Do you use STerm? One thing STerm does is send XOFF when it does a disk write. However, with the latest modems, you probably have a buffer within the modem that has data in it. Now, IMO, unless you have your modem set for Software Handshake (not advisable for binary transfers), it will ignore this and keep sending, and your buffer will overflow. Actually, this is probably the problem you are experiencing. Your driver is not getting the modem halted and the modem keeps pumping data to the driver even after the buffer is filled up. If you are experiencing overflowing buffers, you will see your data repeated. Delmar sells a serial card for their computers. I'm not sure if it's 16550 or not. One of the shortcomings of the 68681 driver that came with my system was that it had an unbearably small buffer, 200 bytes, I believe. That, coupled with no automatic Hardware Flow control made it very unreliable with hi-speed transfers, zmodem was unusable with windows. Now, in a text screen, it worked fine. The graphics screen is slow enough that it made it hard for it to keep up in windows. Actually, when I increased the buffer to 2k, it seemed to work OK, even without HW flow control. It probably would have barfed if it were scrolling an extremely long text file. However, I think the reason Delmar had not worked on the 68681 drivers was due to the fact that they _did_ have a serial card and I believe most people were using it. However, as of now, I can get by with my current ports. Might try a 28.8 modem and see if I'm still happy with it -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93403 23-AUG 23:57 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93399) From: WDTV5 To: DBREEDING Sorry bout the confusion here, but all that was refering to my other computer, a stuffed Amiga 2000. 9 megs ram, 345 IDE drive, multiface III, cdrom etc. And those are SLOW figures, we just picked up a fresh scsi card for one at the tv station that checked in at 3.2 megs/sec to the best drive of the 4 hard drives in that box. We oughta get the STerm fellows in touch with Olaf Barthel of Amiga "Term" fame. However, the way that the amiga does it, with most of that sort of thing delegated to a loadable library, which any one of the 10 or so term proggys for the amiga may call, we can't blame the term proggy, but the library doing the dirty work at the instant. Rather similar to the zmodem situation here in that its an external procedure, but this stuff carries over to even text captures! So the only safe place to capture this forum in the "read new ns ft" mode is to open the file in the ramdisk where it can write very quickly, litterally in between bytes rx'd! Cheers Dave, Gene -*- 93472 28-AUG 07:11 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93357) From: DSRTFOX To: EDELMAR Ed, the only advantage the AT-306 has over the System IV is price. For the $400, you also get "Personal OS-9", which is (admittedly) a cobbled together system (Industrial OSK with a couple additions licensed from MW, some special utilities and drivers written by Karl, and some PD utils), but has all the major components. Since it is a licensed product (at least most of it!), there are no compatibility problems. A version of BASIC also comes with it. A PT68K4 board runs about the same price, but add another $300 for OSK. The only thing missing in the "Personal" package is the C compiler, which for a deveolper/progammer might be a problem, but not the average user. And the GCC version is available. Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;35;43mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93481 28-AUG 23:11 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93472) From: KSCALES To: DSRTFOX >The only thing missing in the "Personal" package is the C > compiler, which for a deveolper/progammer might be a problem, but not the > average user. And the GCC version is available. However, I believe that the GCC compiler still relies upon the Microware assembler. Until the GNU assembler is ported to support OSK... I wonder if any of the vendors will be licensing Ultra-C from Microware? (For example, PT customers (only) can buy Ultra-C from them at a much more reasonable price -- in fact, it would have been cheaper for me to buy a PT board and then get Ultra-C, than to just buy U-C for my MM/1, since IMS didn't license it, and PT couldn't give MM/1 owners the special rate.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales@delphi.com CIS:74646,2237 -*- 93483 29-AUG 00:41 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93481) From: BOISY To: KSCALES Hi Ken, I understand that Kreider Electronics will be selling the Microware K&R C compiler package with manuals (perhaps through Wittman Computer Products). I'm not sure of the price though. Regards -*- 93494 29-AUG 19:56 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93472) From: DBREEDING To: DSRTFOX Frank, Your message is quite well to the point. I would like to add one angle to the subject. I must say that I don't wish to speak of any one system as having any superiority over another... I don't think I would be dissatisfied with any of the 4 "brands" we now have. > Ed, the only advantage the AT-306 has over the System IV is price. For > the $400, you also get "Personal OS-9", which is (admittedly) a cobbled > together system (Industrial OSK with a couple additions licensed from MW, > some special utilities and drivers written by Karl, and some PD utils), > but has all the major components. Yes, from what I have seen, the AT-306 is a great system. It may be the key for many to gain entry into the OSK field. I would say that you can build the AT-306 up to full specs for any of the systems. However, I cannot shake the feeling that the PT/Delmar systems have been given the reputation for being much more expensive. I believe that you can strip them down to where you can have them for little more than any of the others. They may cost a little more, but I don't think it is that much more when you make them totally equivalent. From my experience, I think you should have 4 Meg of memory (3 is OK on the MM/1) to do serious work. If you want, you can get by on a Terminal System, but to really fly, you need your own video to do the windows stuff. > The only thing missing in the "Personal" package is the C > compiler, which for a deveolper/progammer might be a problem, but not the > average user. And the GCC version is available. Yes, that is true. Many do prefer this version, so it will probably be not a big handicap. Personally, I like my 3.2 MW compiler. The only thing about using GCC, as we discussed here, is the fact that you need to be open with your source. As I said, any system is great. They all are quite capable, but I would suggest that any potential purchaser carefully analyze what he wishes to do with his system, how far he expects to go with it, and how much expansion is available for the system in question and at what cost. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93517 31-AUG 05:28 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93472) From: EDELMAR To: DSRTFOX Frank, > the only advantage the AT-306 has over the System IV is price. For the > $400, you also get "Personal OS-9", which is (admittedly) a cobbled together > system (Industrial OSK with a couple additions licensed from MW, some > special utilities and drivers written by Karl, and some PD utils), but has > all the major components. ... The only thing missing in the "Personal" > package is the C compiler, which for a deveolper/progammer might be a > problem, but not the average user. And the GCC version is available. I responded to Boisy's message in the vein of a machine for programmers. From Msg 93308, I quote - "The AT306 represents a chance for us, the personal OS-9 programmers, to start over and do things right. ..." As such, the AT-306 will not include a C Compiler, assembler and linker. (To the best of my knowledge, GCC does not include an assembler or linker for OS9.) Further, the SYSTEM IV includes the full MW documentation. Purchased separately, this costs $200.00. Considering the SYSTEM IV is available for as low as $999 assembled, tested and ready to run, I doubt the AT-306 will price out any lower if the C-Compiler and documentation are included. Further, the SYSTEM IV is fully supported. While the AT-306 board may be supported, the buyer is on his own when adding accessories such as hard drive, floppies, PS, video card, etc. An example of the support is the availability of Ultra-C to buyers of the SYSTEM IV for only $300.00. The regular price is $1295. I'm not knocking the AT-306 - simply trying to put everything in perspective. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO read new ns ft -*- 93565 5-SEP 06:52 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93494) From: DSRTFOX To: DBREEDING On 29-AUG 19:56 DBREEDING said to DSRTFOX > Frank, > Your message is quite well to the point. I would like to add one angle > to the subject. I must say that I don't wish to speak of any one >system as having any superiority over another... I don't think I >would be dissatisfied with any of the 4 "brands" we now have. > > Ed, the only advantage the AT-306 has over the System IV is price. >For > the $400, you also get "Personal OS-9", which is (admittedly) a >cobbled > together system (Industrial OSK with a couple additions >licensed from MW, > some special utilities and drivers written by >Karl, and some PD utils), > but has all the major components. > Yes, from what I have seen, the AT-306 is a great system. It may be >the key for many to gain entry into the OSK field. I would say that you > can build the AT-306 up to full specs for any of the systems. However, > I cannot shake the feeling that the PT/Delmar systems have been given >the reputation for being much more expensive. I believe that you can >strip them down to where you can have them for little more than any of >the others. They may cost a little more, but I don't think it is that >much more when you make them totally equivalent. David, I priced these out in a previous issue. The system itself IS priced about like the AT306 if you get the boards and build it yourself. The problem here is that OS-9/68K costs an additioanl $300. So you spend about $300-$400 more on a PT68K (System IV). If you want a basic OSK system, not G-windows or any real graphics capabilities, then you can get a PT68K2 board for significantly less. Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;36;40mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93566 5-SEP 06:52 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93517) From: DSRTFOX To: EDELMAR On 31-AUG 05:28 EDELMAR said to DSRTFOX > Frank, > I responded to Boisy's message in the vein of a machine for >programmers. From Msg 93308, I quote - > "The AT306 represents a chance for us, the personal OS-9 programmers, >to start over and do things right. ..." > As such, the AT-306 will not include a C Compiler, assembler and >linker. (To the best of my knowledge, GCC does not include an >assembler or linker for OS9.) Further, the SYSTEM IV includes the >full MW documentation. Purchased separately, this costs $200.00. >Considering the SYSTEM IV is available for as low as $999 assembled, >tested and ready to run, I doubt the AT-306 will price out any lower >if the C-Compiler and documentation are included. Further, the SYSTEM >IV is fully supported. While the AT-306 board may be supported, the >buyer is on his own when adding accessories such as hard drive, >floppies, PS, video card, etc. An example of the support is the >availability of Ultra-C to buyers of the SYSTEM IV for only $300.00. >The regular price is $1295. > I'm not knocking the AT-306 - simply trying to put everything in >perspective. > Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO Ed, I guess you are correct. What some of the MM/1 users are doing is buying the older version of OSK along with the new machine and using the C compiler from there. As a programmers/developers machine, the System V is probably the best buy with software and performance. The AT306 is probably a better "users machine", providing the best bang for the buck to start off with. My understanding is that you will be selling some of the AT-306 boards also? They would be good as smart terminals/workstations paired with a System V server, I would think! Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;32;44mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93577 6-SEP 19:48 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93565) From: DBREEDING To: DSRTFOX > However, > I cannot shake the feeling that the PT/Delmar systems have been > given >the reputation for being much more expensive. I believe that you > can >strip them down to where you can have them for little more than any > of >the others. They may cost a little more, but I don't think it is > that >much more when you make them totally equivalent. > > David, I priced these out in a previous issue. The system itself IS > priced about like the AT306 if you get the boards and build it yourself. > The problem here is that OS-9/68K costs an additioanl $300. So you spend > about $300-$400 more on a PT68K (System IV). If you want a basic OSK > system, not G-windows or any real graphics capabilities, then you can get > a PT68K2 board for significantly less. Yes, now that you mention it, I remember that article. I probably need to go back and review it. I'm sure that the P-T type systems may be a little higher, but, again, we need to remember that we want to compare the systems when they are equal. FWIW, and it may be a minor concern for many, but the AT306 comes with personal OS9. If you are not going to do any programming, then this would probably be the most logical way to go. However, should you decide you will want to do some C programming, then you will have to then buy the compiler. I think it was mentioned that GNU C is available, but you still don't get the assembler/linker. However, as a side note, did I read somewhere that you could upgrade the OS to 2.4 Professional for around $50? There is no doubt that the AT306 _is_ as good buy, especially if you have access to cheap components, like used drives, already have a case or can find one cheaply. However, the point I wanted to make is that when many think about the Delmar/PT systems, they immediately think something like "twice as much", and I think this reputation is undeserved. When I was making my mind up to purchase, I did a lot of comparative shopping. I compared the System 4/5 to the MM/1. Of course I got my system configured pretty well decked-out, I could have gotten it for less, but I got a System 5, 25-MHz CPU, 4 Meg memory, 210 meg HD, G-Windows plus the Development System. With this system, I got a parallel port already hooked up and 4 serial ports. Now, in comparison with the MM/1, I could have gotten a system really cheap, what is the startup price, $600 m/l? for a system in a case? However, to make it viable, you need a HD and you really need the I/O board as a minimum. And to really get serious, you need to get the 9(?) Meg upgrade, of course you can get by with the 3 meg standard for quite some time. I have not really had any problems with my 4 meg as of yet. However, the AT306 bypasses some of these problems. You have most of the stuff available. You have a pretty sizeable memory upgrade potential, don't you? A parallel port is already onboard, it accepts SVGA (I think this is becoming increasingly important). Actually, I agree that it _is_ a really neat system, I may get one to play around with myself, but I still think one contemplating buyng a system should look at all the aspects and be sure of his choice. Each system has its strong points and each has a little drawback that another of the systems does not have. I feel that one system might be better for one person whereas for someone else, another system would be better suited. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93578 6-SEP 19:48 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93566) From: DBREEDING To: DSRTFOX > As a programmers/developers machine, the System V is > probably the best buy with software and performance. The AT306 is probably > a better "users machine", This was almost the exact statement I intended to make in my previous reply to you but forgot to . I think you hit the nail on the head with this observation. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93620 10-SEP 18:56 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93566) From: MRUPGRADE To: DSRTFOX Quoting the previous text is neat in some cases. On the other hand reprinting what is already printed,, and especially when the quote text is L OOOOOONNNNN GGGG EEE RRRR then your reply,, it seems kinda silly. Doesn't it?? Terry g -*- 93631 11-SEP 07:25 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93577) From: DSRTFOX To: DBREEDING You are correct David, one should look at all available systems. As to choosing the System IV over an MM/1, I think that was a VERY good choice! The System IV is a lot more flexible in configuration. The new MM/1b (AT306 board) is comparable to the System IV (PT68K4 board) in most, if not all, respects. I actually think the I/O on the AT306 is a bit better, with all the ports on the motherboard. But in any case, the buyer has to compare and make a reasonable choice for themselves. Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;30;42mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93647 13-SEP 22:28 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93620) From: DBREEDING To: MRUPGRADE > Quoting the previous text is neat in some cases. On the other hand > reprinting what is already printed,, and especially when the quote text > is L OOOOOONNNNN GGGG EEE RRRR then your reply,, it seems kinda silly. > Doesn't it?? Terry g It depends. It is a good idea to give some idea as to what you are replying to. Often I get a reply to a message and it is quite unclear as to what I said, and I cannot remember what the subject was even about. With "ix", you go in and read "NEW" messages. In this mode, you cannot jump to old messages that have already been read. If you need to refresh your memory, you have to quit this mode, go into "read all" mode, find that message and then come back. I'm sure we do go overboard on quoting but sometimes a little too much is better than not enough. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93656 16-SEP 00:50 General Information RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93631) From: DBREEDING To: DSRTFOX (NR) > You are correct David, one should look at all available systems. As to > choosing the System IV over an MM/1, I think that was a VERY good choice! Well.. I wouldn't say the MM/1 would have been a bad choice. I don't think I would have been unhappy with an MM/1. > The System IV is a lot more flexible in configuration. Yes, this is one advantage. I think the biggest limit to the Sys 4 is that it is limited to a maximum of 4 Meg memory, if I am not mistaken. I think this is adequate for many purposes. I have 4 meg right now and have not been pressed yet. > The new MM/1b > (AT306 board) is comparable to the System IV (PT68K4 board) in most, if > not all, respects. I actually think the I/O on the AT306 is a bit better, > with all the ports on the motherboard. I may be wrong on this, but I would think the AT306 might have a little more expansion capability than a Sys 4 if you want to push it to its limit. At least in memory. I'm not sure about what is on the motherboard of a Sys 4. I thought the serial ports were and perhaps the printer port. I don't know how the CPU's would compare, whether there would be any functional difference or not. I have a Sys 5 myself. All the ports you would need to get started are on the M/B. There are 4 serial ports, the floppy controller, an IDE controller, and your parallel ports are all on the M/B. If you can stand the pressure, you can stick 128 Meg of memory on the board. This would be just a little rich for my blood . I think what makes the Delmar/PT systems and the AT-306 so attractive is the capability of using standard PC cards. The big rub of this is that you just can't run down to Wal-Mart, pick up just any old video card, for example, take it home, plug it in and expect it to work. You still have to stick with what they have written drivers for or be able to write your own, but I think as time goes on and if the market expancs, the choices will expand also. > But in any case, the buyer has to > compare and make a reasonable choice for themselves. Yes, this is the bottom line. I believe I saw a message from Ken Scales, (I think it was he), and he said that he had recommended OSK systems to three different people just in that week and for the purpose each wanted, he recommended a different one of the three available at that time to each of the people. It all depends on what you want to do and how a particular system would meet those needs. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- End of Thread. -*- 93380 22-AUG 04:34 General Information Monitors From: COCOKIWI To: ALL I was lookin around the other day and came across a little goodie for you "rich" MM/1 Etc..CoCo computers....... A 20" MONITOR R.G.B + Composite/ SVGA ...RGB will handle COCo to VGA Speakers mounted on side of monitor,,,,,comes with Remote..... YES! IT is also a TV ............. and.though it is a good one it comes with a good price TOO...............$748.00 Big ones....... 15Khz to 40Khz .........20" TV NOT SVGA Toshiba Model # MM20E45...........Part # at SAMS 602714 Very nice TV/Monitor..........Expensive BUT nice......... Dennis -*- 93381 22-AUG 21:42 OSK Applications MM/1 parallel ports bidirectional? From: JEJONES To: ALL I bit the bullet and bought a printer that ought to last me a LONG time... but it turns out that to take full advantage of it, I need to be able to send it commands *and* listen to its responses. So, the question I have is: can I do that on my MM/1a's /p? (I tried "com /p" but got back an error 203, "bad I/O mode," so I'm not very hopeful.) If I can't, are there serial/parallel converters that will let me connect the way I want? Thanks. Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors. -*- 93382 22-AUG 21:44 General Information OS-9 Late Night From: THETAURUS To: ALL This is just a note to say thanks to all who attended last nights Open Forum. It was another good conference, and like most OF's we just talked about everything :-) Now NEXT WEEK will be our big 1st anniversary conference. This should prove to be very festive. With 'the world of 68 micros' turning two with this issue(keep it up Frank!), and with OS-9 Late Night proving itself a success, there is a lot to celebrate, so don't miss next weeks conference! On Sept 4th Mike Rowen, the OS-9 Users' Group VP of 6809 will be returning to talk more with us about UG activity, and to hear your suggestions, and perhaps any plans you may have to participate! September 18th is going to be the Atlanta Fest Conference. Newton White from the Atlanta Computer Society, the group that sponsors the fest, will be on hand to cover anything related to the Atlanta fest. If you are one of the many last minute attendees who might need more details, don't miss 'See You in Atlanta' on the 18th. And finally, on September 25th, Kurt Johnson, President of the 'KD Consulting Group', will be here to tell us more about Sculptor, the OS-9 database system of choice. Sculptor is in use in a wide variety of applications and by many companies and institutions. Come find out more about this versatile software. Also, as I said above, the company is called 'KD Consulting Group', and not 'KD Associates' which I had accidently posted previously. I don't know why I decided to screw that up, but it should be all set now. Luckily Mr. McKay keeps his eyes open when I don't :-) See Ya Chris Perrault OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook Coordinator -*- 93383 22-AUG 21:44 General Information RE: Alpha testers needed for FMV adventu (Re: Msg 93368) From: THETAURUS To: DIGIGRADE >>You could still do some C debugging if you could.<< I'm afraid my knowledge in C is even less then what I know with Basic09(and you've all seen my confusion there!). I'm afraid I'm far from able to do it :-( >>Does MGR have similar buttons?<< I don't know, as I haven't seen it yet, tho it seems to be the direction that OSK systems could be headed in if the AT-306 goes over. That is unless G-Windows get's ported like Ed is planning to do, and people switch to Gwindows. MGR is shipped with the AT-306 based machines, so like the MM/1 before it, I imagine a lot to be developed for this if the machines sell. Kwindows sounds like it is on the decline, as far as support is concerned, but don't quote me. Ask Boisy about the buttons, he might know. >>I'm sorry, but what is an AT-306. Am I really that out of touch? :)<< AT-306 is the new board designed by Kreider Electronics and is what is in the current MM/1B(heard of that one yet?) and Whittman's WCP-306. I thought of it originally as another update to the MM/1, but after learning more about it, it is a completely new design. Hardware, as Ed Gresic said,is similar to the System IV in that it's less Coco geared and aimed more at more powerfull hardware and software capabilities, such as being able to use PC type cards with the proper descriptors, and has the ability to run, as Boisy put it, more mature GUI's, such as MGR and Gwindows. I can't comment personally as I haven't seen any of them in action, but the description tells me this is an improvement. This is probably the way the MM/1 should have originally been done. The next few months will be interesting for the new machine! See Ya Chris Perrault OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook Coordinator -*- 93392 23-AUG 04:10 General Information RE: Alpha testers needed for FMV adventu (Re: Msg 93383) From: DIGIGRADE To: THETAURUS So... this is the MM/1B. Interesting. Very interesting. Dave -*- End of Thread. -*- 93384 22-AUG 22:00 Telecom (6809) web viewing From: DOMM To: ALL Could someone please tell me what is the minimum hardware needed to view graphics on the web? Thanks. ---Dom -*- 93385 22-AUG 23:21 Telecom (6809) RE: web viewing (Re: Msg 93384) From: RICKLT To: DOMM You need a Web Browser, and the cheapest way to use one is on a PC clone under you guesed it under Windows. Rick -*- 93386 23-AUG 00:05 Telecom (6809) RE: web viewing (Re: Msg 93385) From: DOMM To: RICKLT Rick--- OH, MAN! *@'&#$@*"! ---Dom -*- 93393 23-AUG 09:03 Telecom (6809) RE: web viewing (Re: Msg 93384) From: JIMDIXON To: DOMM Dom: Rick is correct if you want interactive viewing, but if you simply want to be able to download the graphics for later viewing, and can live with a text only interface, there is an MS-DOS based version of lynx called DosLynx which should work. Is anyone working on an OS-9 based browser? I suspect that lynx could be ported to OSK without TOO many problems, but the market could really use a good graphics based package. James Dixon -*- 93400 23-AUG 23:18 Telecom (6809) RE: web viewing (Re: Msg 93393) From: DOMM To: JIMDIXON James--- > ...there is an MS-DOS based version... Wouldn't help me, I don't have anything that can run MS-Dos. > Is anyone working on an OS-9 based browser? Don't know - would be nice though - someday I'd like to get another setup and I'd like to stay with OS-9. The only thing now that I feel lacking is "viewing" the net. I use OS-9 for motor/relay etc.. control and can more or less do what I want. ---Dom -*- End of Thread. -*- 93391 23-AUG 03:53 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93196) From: DIGIGRADE To: JOHNBAER > The other kick is, from the info in that bata release, that there > won't be a Mac version. Now, if Delphi doesn't care enough to do a > Mac version, (not enough Mac people here?) what chance do the rest > of us have ? ... > > I think we better start that yelling campaign real soon ;-) Yes! Defenately! The User's Group will have to find a new nesting place, or buy 286es. :/ If they flush the Mac Users too, I will quit Delphi. There will be no way for me to Log on! I'm tempted to get rid of my Telenut Account since I don't do much serious D/Ling anymore. Then I'll just have this one on 10/4. I didn't like my last bill on AOL, $75! It's because browsing in AOL is like walking through a freaking musieum. Before you know it, youv'e been there all day. Right now, on Delphi, I just type GO COM OS9 WHO DATA NEW and I'm gone. But with the GUI you'll have to wait for new icons, scroll, click , wait, scroll, click ... It also means people will have to junk their newly updated D-Lite (and we will lose IX ) They will loose the ST, Amiga, and other SIGs that don't have DOS users, and that must be around 600 users that will have to quit. I'm forwarding this message to Service, and anyone who can come up with a good petition for all the affected sigs could post them there and say forward to service. That will make it easy, and we can show them how many members they will lose. I doubt they will go GUI only (DOS only) but if it looks like that's what will happen... I don't see much trouble in making Delphi auto-senseing like a RIPterm deal. Dave -*- 93395 23-AUG 20:25 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93391) From: JOHNBAER To: DIGIGRADE Dave, > ... But with the GUI you'll have to wait for new icons, scroll, > click , wait, scroll, click ... Unless these icons and most used pics are stored on your hard drive . > ... I doubt they will go GUI only (DOS only) but if it looks like > that's what will happen... Well, the latest I have read in the Service Sig is something like, `Delphi will keep the CLI as long as people use it' :) This is after a large number of people complained about Delphi dropping the CLI at the end of this year. So it seems that Delphi does listen to it's users. Oh, BTW.. the bigest group of complaints came from `dos' users that don't use windows . > I don't see much trouble in making Delphi auto-senseing like a RIPterm > deal. I have a feeling that Delphi will setup another set of phone's to call into Delphi just for the GUI side. Might be 14,400 to start with 28,800 fast behind it... but, who knows . I'm just sitting back and reading the Service Sig side . -- John - Windows isn't a virus .. Virus's _do_ something. -*- 93396 23-AUG 20:48 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93395) From: MITHELEN To: JOHNBAER Actually, I think the intent was to keep the Text based Delphi around, and that that fact just wasn't made clear... the New Delphi is exactly that, a New and SEPERATE servace from the existing Delphi. As long as a demand exists for the existing service it will continue... I think there will always be a demand for the current text based service so I don't think there is too much to worry about, at least not in the forseeable future... -*- 93411 24-AUG 21:28 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93391) From: DBREEDING To: DIGIGRADE > Right now, on Delphi, I just type GO COM OS9 > WHO DATA NEW and I'm gone. I have no problem with the CLI... I don't use it as effectively as many, but it is very straightforward. > I don't see much trouble in making Delphi auto-senseing like a RIPterm > deal. Speaking of RIPTerm, is this available for the Mac? Our local BBS's support RIPTerm. I have not seen a Mac version, but would like to know if it is. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93416 24-AUG 22:59 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93396) From: JOHNBAER To: MITHELEN Hello Paul, > Actually, I think the intent was to keep the Text based Delphi around, > and that that fact just wasn't made clear... (Grin)... They should have said something from the get-go... but then, the message count in the Service Sig would be much lower. :) > the New Delphi is exactly that, a New and SEPERATE servace from the > existing Delphi. This is what I'm finding out from all the traffic in Service and the `News' areas.. mci & delphi joining.. starting to make more sense.. > As long as a demand exists for the existing service it will continue... Yea, the `use it or loose it' thinking here.. but that's ok, I'll stay and use it as long as Delphi keeps it. :) > I think there will always be a demand for the current text based service > so I don't think there is too much to worry about, at least not in the > forseeable future... I'll agree with you here. WWW browsing is one thing. Doing FTP, Gopher, Telneting, etc. is (IMO) faster with text, and I think it will always will be. Plus, for me, I don't like the idea of `icons & stuff' being stored on _my_ system just to speed things up like some `other' services do. :) I have this feeling that Delphi just might do the GUI this way. It will be interesting to watch the out come. John - HELP!! I've installed win95 and I can't boot up! -*- 93418 24-AUG 23:09 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93411) From: ADITNAVEL To: DBREEDING Ripterm info in available in the new D/L section. Inside is the number of the people who I believe invented Ripterm, etc.. I'm not sure, but if you give them a call they have various free Rip 'type' programs for free (to promote their interface ). If its too big a hassle with Long Dist, leave me E-mail and I'll pop in and look about again there. -*- 93421 25-AUG 00:49 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93411) From: DIGIGRADE To: DBREEDING I haven't seen RIPTerm for the Mac. I think it was something some nobody wrote and some BBS programmers liked it and put it into their programs. I'm waiting for Mac BBSes that operate like licaltalk networks. Dave -*- 93435 26-AUG 23:06 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93418) From: DBREEDING To: ADITNAVEL > Ripterm info in available in the new D/L section. Inside is the number of > the people who I believe invented Ripterm, etc.. I'm not sure, but if you > give them a call they have various free Rip 'type' programs for free (to > promote their interface ). If its too big a hassle with Long Dist, > leave me E-mail and I'll pop in and look about again there. I have a file describing the RipTerm calls and the like.. I had thought about doing this, but I'm not sure how much interest there would be. Also, it would have to be platform specific. As a matter of fact, I did call their BBS some time ago. (L/D is not much of a hassle for me, it's l/d for me to access Delphi or CIS anyway ) I may give it a shot sometime, just takes getting up the courage to start, I guess... -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93436 26-AUG 23:06 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93421) From: DBREEDING To: DIGIGRADE > I haven't seen RIPTerm for the Mac. I had not seen any mention of it. > I think it was something some > nobody wrote and some BBS programmers liked it and put it into their > programs. I'm waiting for Mac BBSes that operate like licaltalk networks. Actually, I don't know how wide-spread it is. What got my attention is that we have 2 local BBS's and both have it implemented. I've seen it once and it is kinda nice. I am not all that much into the graphical interfaces, but it would be nice to have something like this to show off :-) I hate it when I tell people how great my system is and when the talk comes to some of these capabilities, about all I can do is say, "Well, we don't have _that_ yet, but..." I feel we have about the best OS in the world, but just don't have the fancy interfaces to show off. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93437 27-AUG 00:22 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93436) From: DIGIGRADE To: DBREEDING Oh, as far as RIPTerm on the MM/1, I have made it a point to try my hand at a RIPTerm menu that feeds off the capture buffer of your favorite term program, as making a good term program (I would think) is not all that easy. Dave -*- 93457 27-AUG 16:55 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93437) From: DBREEDING To: DIGIGRADE > Oh, as far as RIPTerm on the MM/1, I have made it a point to try my > hand at a RIPTerm menu that feeds off the capture buffer of your favorite > term program, as making a good term program (I would think) is not all > that easy. Making a complete program would take a little doing, I would think. What did you do, do a capture of a RIP session and then view it from that file? I had thought about the possibility of writing a pipe to let a standard comm program do the exchange of data, but pipe it into the RIP program for screen display. I think my boards use a RIP query and expect a response. I wonder how much interest there would be for RIP capability? -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93469 28-AUG 00:26 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93457) From: DIGIGRADE To: DBREEDING Forgive me for not quoting but I'm online live right now. I really just wanted to do it as a personal project and learning. I would really like to work together with you on this if you would. I am thinking along the same lines as you and I while I am not that keen on I/O I have been working on GUI's for the MM/1 the entire three years I have had mine. I have written three in C and I would love to do the interface part while you do the I/O routines. A month or so ago someone uploaded the official RIP protocol tech sheet. It should still be in new uploads here in the OS9 SIG. I haven't had the time to look at it. Dave -*- 93493 29-AUG 19:56 General Information RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93469) From: DBREEDING To: DIGIGRADE > Forgive me for not quoting but I'm online live right now. I get caught in this position myself, sometime.. > I really just wanted to do it as a personal project and learning. I would > really like to work together with you on this if you would. I am thinking > along the same lines as you and I while I am not that keen on I/O I have > been working on GUI's for the MM/1 the entire three years I have had > mine. I have written three in C and I would love to do the interface part > while you do the I/O routines. To be truthful, I have not gotten started with the G-Windows programming very much yet. I have been putting it off, and actually shirking on my programming. It shouldn't be much of a problem with dealing with the I/O that much.. The biggest problem would be in writing the file transfer stuff unless one could get permission to incorporate someone else's stuff. One other thought would be to call up external file transfer programs. If and when I do get up the courage to start the project, I would be glad to collaborate on it. As I said, it would be neat to have something like this that everyone could use. > A month or so ago someone uploaded the official RIP protocol tech > sheet. It should still be in new uploads here in the OS9 SIG. I haven't > had the time to look at it. Someone sent me something like a 80 (?)- page doc on RIP. This may be the same thing. I saw the upload but suspected it might be the same thing.. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- End of Thread. -*- 93394 23-AUG 19:19 General Information RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93318) From: RANDYKWILSON To: BOISY Boisy, Interesting message on the 306 board (yeah, I'm a week behind again). I'm a bit puzzled by the benchmarks, though. The dhrystones look strange. I seem to remember the original MM/1 clocking in at around 1000, not 3000+. Does the MM/1 get faster with age, did the dhrystone "standard" change, or ??? Also, why did you pick such a *slow* clock speed for the MM/1a? Why 13.89 when the '340 is shipped set to 16.67 and a lot of people have pushed that up to the 18-20 mhz range? On the hard drive speed, I'm surprised you're surprised at the results, since you've owned both a 070 and a 340. For those that don't have the machines, When the 340 board was built and drivers written, the DMA was seriously hobbled, supposedly in the interests of smoother multitasking; less than half as fast as the old 070. Randy -*- 93402 23-AUG 23:51 General Information RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93394) From: BOISY To: RANDYKWILSON To Randy (and Ed) who seemed puzzled by the dhrystone values: The program I ran was dhry2.1, grabbed off a machine at work. My purpose was not to promote the actual numbers, but instead the relative distance between the numbers. Why do I run my MM/1a at 13.89? RAM problems ensue if I go higher. I start getting bus errors at random if I go higher. I've only owned a 340, not an 070, so I am not aware of the speed of the 68070 when it comes to disk speed. You imply it was faster. How much faster? I certainly don't know. -*- 93406 24-AUG 02:28 General Information RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93402) From: RANDYKWILSON To: BOISY Boisy, Sorry, I thought you had upgraded to a 340, but it appears you started with one. My disk speed comparision is based on Mark G.'s DDTEST program, which should be here in the DB. On my MM/1a it returns 0.85 meg/sec read and 0.54 meg/sec for write. To verify the old 070 times, I just went back through forum messages (see 58416, I think) and found that I was remembering wrong. I thought we were getting 1.8 meg/sec on read, but I had posted 1.46. Writes were a pedestrian 0.37. So, writing to the hard drive improved about like you would expect from the 340 upgrade, yet read speed was almost half as fast. Seat of the pants bears this out. I was told that it was done to improve multitasking. I really would like to have my blinding hard drive reads back, but have been unable to find the proper knob to twist. Randy -*- 93414 24-AUG 22:37 General Information RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93394) From: WA2EGP To: RANDYKWILSON Well, I look at the dhrystones with suspicion. The results change with the number of passes you tell it to use. I would assume (and we all know what that means) that there shouldn't be too great a difference between, let's say, 20000 passes and 50000 passes.......but that is not what I get. If that is the way it does work, couldn't someone pick the number of passes that would make one machine "look" a bit better than another? I've also wondered if the way the MM/1 does the video (colored memory) versus a video card makes a difference (shades of the "double speed poke" on the CoCo). Oh, back to the passes.....I wonder if each machine gets the same percentage change between different number of passes. IF I keep this up, I think I'm gonna be on a certain "dream team" constantly challanging the tests (grin). -*- 93420 24-AUG 23:44 General Information RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93402) From: KSCALES To: BOISY > I've only owned a 340, not an 070, so I am not aware of the speed of > the 68070 when it comes to disk speed. You imply it was faster. How > much faster? I certainly don't know. Boisy, as I recall it (and simplifying somewhat due to the hour)... The difference is in how the CPU treats DMA. With the 68070, a DMA operation, once initiated, took over the buss until it was complete. With the 68340, the amount of time allocated for DMA can be programmed to be less than 100% of the buss cycles. Under the 68070 environment, a DMA sequence effectively locks out other operations, analogous to masking interrupts on the CC3. One manifestation of this arrangement is the tendency for "buffer over-runs" of the mouse data during DMA operations. (This can cause mouse "lock-ups" when the mouse drivers do not provide appropriate error handling.) However, DMA operations are _very_ fast, evidenced by fast hard drive "read" performance. With the 68340 DMA programmed for less than 100% occupancy, hard drive "read" throughput is reduced, but the probability of mouse "buffer over-runs" occurring is drastically reduced. Hope this helps. I hope others will chip in with more details to explain (or contradict if appropriate) the above. Cheers... / Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales@delphi.com CIS:74646,2237 -*- 93423 25-AUG 07:50 General Information RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93394) From: JEJONES To: RANDYKWILSON > Interesting message on the 306 board (yeah, I'm a week behind again). > I'm a bit puzzled by the benchmarks, though. The dhrystones look strange. > I seem to remember the original MM/1 clocking in at around 1000, not > 3000+. Does the MM/1 get faster with age, did the dhrystone "standard" > change, or ??? There are at least a couple of Dhrystone programs out and about--well, three if you count the original, which was written in Ada. The first Dhrystone program tried to approximate the alleged frequency of (non-floating point) operations, but was written such that smart compilers could notice operations that were never used and could be deleted, thus defeating the whole purpose of the benchmark. The second one tries to be smarter about that, but still has flaws--for a thorough discussion, see Hennessy (sp?) and Patterson's book on computer architecture. In fact, the translation from Ada to C is such that about all Dhrystone *really* tests is how good the strcmp() and strcpy() functions are on the C compiler you're using. For that matter, I've read of at least one compiler that notices it's compiling Dhrystone and does things that won't work in general but give better numbers on Dhrystone. Even an honest compiler can notice that the source of a strcpy() is a string constant and generate code more like a structure assignment (because the length is knowable at compile time). Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors. -*- 93503 30-AUG 02:50 General Information RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93406) From: AJMLFCO To: RANDYKWILSON Just for info, I just ran ddtest on my 33Mhz Kix\30 while online in Sterm and got 205 KBytes/sec write and 1,913 KBytes/sec read time. I have found that the interleave value affects the write time considerably. I have it back to 1:1 because it gives great read times at the expense of write speed. From distant memory, I think 2:1 interleave doubled the write speeed and cut the read time only a little. I think I should have left it at 2:1. This is all with a Quantum 240 SCSI & DMA. Allen -*- 93523 31-AUG 21:46 General Information RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93414) From: GREGL To: WA2EGP Also keep in mind that dhrystone results can be changed drastically by the C compiler being used. As a matter of fact, the original version of dhrystone went through the iterations calculating some magic number but never used the calculated result. Since the result was never used, many optimizing compilers found the loop to be unnecessary so removed it from the binary. The bottom line is that you must use the same binary to get meaningful data, and even then the results are questionable. -- Greg -*- 93524 31-AUG 22:10 General Information RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93423) From: GREGL To: JEJONES You are exactly right. I recall compiling dhrystone with Borland C++ 3.1 many years ago and seeing the problem with strcpy() and strcmp(). At that time, Borland's strcpy() routine in the library was somewhat slow in that it copied the string byte-by-byte until it found the terminating NULL. With optimizations enabled, however, it determined the strings are always the same length so replaced the strcpy() routine with the following code: mov si,[Source] mov di,[Destination] mov cx,Length rep movsb The difference was many hundreds of clock cycles in this one step alone. The strcpy() function in the Borland C++ 4.51 library is a lot faster than the originals, but so is the optimized version: mov si,[Source] mov di,[Destination] mov cx,Length & 2 rep movsw movsb In other words, the original optimization used the 80x86 REPeat instruction (do instruction, decrement CX, repeat until CX == 0) to move single bytes (8-bit data). The new optimization moves words (16-bit data) followed by a single byte move if the length is odd. The new method isn't quite twice as fast, but it's still a lot faster. Then again, I'ver never trusted benchmark results anyway, particularly with one with so many noticable flaws. -- Greg -*- 93531 2-SEP 22:29 General Information RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93523) From: WA2EGP To: GREGL Cute. I forgot if I compiled mine or got the binary direct. I just find it funny how the number of passes changes the results. -*- End of Thread. -*- 93397 23-AUG 21:02 OSK Applications RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93279) From: DSRTFOX To: KNOT1 On 12-AUG 01:29 KNOT1 said to WA2EGP > Now to follow up, yes, it's an MM/1 basic system, with no I/O board > The printers I have are a Star NX-1000 (appears to be parallel - uses > Blue Streak Ultima to connect when had on my CoCo) and of course the > old stand-by original Tandy DMP 105, which I believe has both modes, > though the serial is that 5-pin din jack on the back. > Checking the module disk, there are both /p and /p1 desctriptors, but > they don't seem to be included in the standard system boot lists, so > assumedly don't work if only have the T0 port. Jamie, the easiest thing to do is connect one of your printers to the MM/1 using the parallel port.... or am I missing something here... the basic MM/1 doesn't have the parallel port maybe? If that is so, sorry for this! I'm not that familiar with the configurations of the MM/1! But you are correct about the Star printer, it is parallel. Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;30;46mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93412 24-AUG 21:28 OSK Applications RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93397) From: DBREEDING To: DSRTFOX > Jamie, the easiest thing to do is connect one of your printers to the > MM/1 using the parallel port.... or am I missing something here... the > basic MM/1 doesn't have the parallel port maybe? If that is so, sorry for > this! I'm not that familiar with the configurations of the MM/1! Neither am I, but I believe the MM/1 does not come standard with a parallel port. It comes on the I/O board, that comes optionally. It seems that this would be one of the prime concerns, to have parallel output available. Perhaps the thinking was that the MM/1 would be replacing a coco, so a serial setup would be available, I don't know.. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93415 24-AUG 22:41 OSK Applications RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93397) From: WA2EGP To: DSRTFOX The parallel ports are on the I/O board which is the added board on the extended system. It's possible to use a serial to parallel converter on one of the serial ports on the processor board (at least I think it is) but I don't know of anyone who has done it. -*- 93453 27-AUG 16:30 OSK Applications RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93415) From: KNOT1 To: DSRTFOX Right, as was pointed out, the basic MM/1 seems to only have an output for the monitor, and one for serial, which I currently use for my modem. At least, that's how mine seems to be. I've ordered the Technical Reference manual from Blackhawk and will see if it mentions anything either when it arrives. - Jamie (KNOT1) - -*- 93473 28-AUG 07:11 OSK Applications RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93321) From: DSRTFOX To: DBREEDING On 17-AUG 21:03 DBREEDING said to WA2EGP > > Well, it certainly does push you to get new stuff for the machine. I > > mean, hey, I got the software....all I need now is the hardware. > > Gee, maybe that lack of printer info in the > > basic might just get some people to get the I/O board (grin). > Yes, I do believe you have a point there. I think it was a bad >decision, though. > It could have well been that this lack of immediate compatibility, if > you will, might have discouraged buyers. But, again, it seemed the > purchasers were there but IMS just could not have delivered. I > wonder how much different things might have been had shipments gotten > out in relatively orderly fashion. It could well be that the OSK > user base would have been much larger. > -- David Breeding -- > CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING > *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** The idea behind the MM/1 was to make it as CoCo compatible as possible. That's why the hardware drawbacks (monitor support, which is the main problem... support of a VGA AND CM-8 type would have been better) and K-Windows. If you could program in Level II windows, you could go directly to K-Windows with little or no problems at all. FHL was invited to help design the MM/1, but declined because the "committee" type design staff usually ends up with a well compromised machine. The only problem with the KiX systems is the cost of a video card for a complete console system. But it was designed for users who mainly use multiple terminals anyway. And the special video card is amazingly fast! Frank had problems running the video card at first... tried it at highest speed and got a white, blank screen. After tinkering with it, finally started slowing it down. Problem? Video card was faster than the monitor could handle! Phosphor didn't stop glowing from one write before another was going over it... video card faster than monitor!!! The AT-306 was designed with functionality and cost most in mind. This meant abandoning any CoCo hardware/software support, except for what can be ported via traditional methods (no graphics though). Result is a much cleaner design using current technology. Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;35;42mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93485 29-AUG 01:02 OSK Applications RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93473) From: WA2EGP To: DSRTFOX The MM/1 should have had a mention of how to use a serial printer with it if was to basically replace the CoCo. It didn't. The only KIX machine I have seen doesn't stay running more than 10 minutes without hanging up and the owner STILL hasn't gotten his manuals. I really hope that the new machines have all these problems solved. -*- 93497 29-AUG 19:57 OSK Applications RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93473) From: DBREEDING To: DSRTFOX > The idea behind the MM/1 was to make it as CoCo compatible as possible. > That's why the hardware drawbacks (monitor support, which is the main > problem... support of a VGA AND CM-8 type would have been better) and > K-Windows. If you could program in Level II windows, you could go > directly to K-Windows with little or no problems at all. Yes, that was the original design concept of the MM/1. It was a worthy idea, but I think the subject of a printer port would have been better served by including a parallel port to begin with. Of course I must admit that this _is_ just a personal opinion. I know that the design by which they included a bare minimum of components in the base machine made for cheaper entry, but when you consider that the purchase of an I/O board was an almost necessity for productive usage, it just seems to me that it would have made sense to have designed them into the system to begin with. > The AT-306 was designed with functionality and cost most in mind. This > meant abandoning any CoCo hardware/software support, except for what can > be ported via traditional methods (no graphics though). Result is a much > cleaner design using current technology. Yes, it seems that the AT-306 _is_ a very clean design. If I did not have a system, I would give it some serious thought. I might like to give one a try anyway.. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- End of Thread. -*- 93401 23-AUG 23:49 Telecom (6809) New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers needed... From: MITHELEN To: ADD (NR) I'm about to release my latest port of rz/sz and need some beta testers for OSK systems... I'm primarily interested in people with systems other then standard MM/1 systems. This new version fixes (or atleast properly gets around) the long standing TIMEOUT problem (which wasn't cause by timeouts at all, but by device read errors) While you may get"Garbled data paket" while dong other things, it WILL recover with no problems... I just have to finish the sz.c changes and beta packages will be ready to send out... probably by saturday... Please send me email with your system setup info if you'd like to be a beta tester. -- Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: OS-9 Support UUCP: mithelen@sandv.chi.il.us Internet: mithelen@delphi.com -*- 93404 24-AUG 00:02 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93401) From: WDTV5 To: MITHELEN Ok, great, now wheres the os9 level 2 version? I think you still have my email address here. Cheers Paul, Gene -*- 93407 24-AUG 02:29 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93404) From: MITHELEN To: WDTV5 A new Level 2 version will be released also... Provoided I can still get it to compile 8-) -- Paul -*- 93408 24-AUG 05:45 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93401) From: EDELMAR To: MITHELEN Paul, Be happy to assist you in beta testing your latest port of rz/sz. I can test on SYSTEM IV, a SYSTEM V and maybe an AT306 in a few weeks. Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO EDELMAR -*- 93413 24-AUG 21:45 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93401) From: DBREEDING To: MITHELEN Paul, > I'm about to release my latest port of rz/sz and need some beta testers > for OSK systems... I see Ed has already offered to test it on his systems, but if you want another System 5, I can give it a shot. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93419 24-AUG 23:44 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93407) From: WDTV5 To: MITHELEN I hope the crc stuffs I did still survive. That s/b good for a 50 cps speedup. Cheers Paul, Gene -*- 93424 25-AUG 14:07 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93419) From: MITHELEN To: WDTV5 Ya.. your CRC stuff is still in there... I hope you can find the time in the future to add some more ASM optimizations for the 6809. I've been haveing the darndest time in the last 2 days getting even the OSK version to compile... I think my memory on my MM/1 may be going... Something really strange, cause sometimes it will compile fine, and other it messes the memory aloocation on the final executable (like trying to give it several hunderd MEG of RAM!) I'ts really meen driveing me crazy... I got the MM/1 in "spider" mode (ie, with the convertable top down) now, and it seems to be behaveing... I finished porting the new sz code last night and just have a few bugs in it to work out (must have made some typos). Once I get that working, then I'll fire up m6809 emulator and try a coco type compile... hopefully my system won't die all together before then. If so, then I'll have to set up the C compiler under the CoCo 3 emulator on my DOS box... -- Paul -*- 93427 26-AUG 02:27 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93407) From: WILLIAMSON68 To: MITHELEN I would be more than happy to beta test a new rz/sz for level 2. The timeouts that I have run into have kept me from using z-modem transfers for quite some time. I can test on 512k 6309/6809, 128k 6809- with standard rs232. -*- 93432 26-AUG 17:33 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93424) From: WDTV5 To: MITHELEN Or, just send it my way. I'm looking for a new project to excersize the new stuffs Wes G., Alan D. etc have been doing in the last few months. I've even done a bit of shrinking of the 6309 version of rbf.mn, incorporating all the bug fixes we've found in our combined tours of that code. Next project? rzsz? Cheers, Gene -*- 93438 27-AUG 02:16 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93432) From: MITHELEN To: WDTV5 I still think someone should tear apart cc3disk, and fix it so it can handle disks with BAM's greater then FFF bytes... Then I could make huge virtual floppies on the CoCo 3 emulator on my PC and have a better setup for doing CoCo support of RZSZ... -- Paul -*- 93446 27-AUG 14:01 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93438) From: WDTV5 To: MITHELEN Since when does it have a 12 bit limitation? I've not looked at the code personally in recent history, but a 12 bit limit to the BAM doesn't seem to make sense given the 16 bit BAM I'm used to on the harddrives. Hummm which cc3disk are you refering to? I've got maybe 10 versions here but run the no-halt 99.99% of the time. Its not given any trouble here other than its not being compatible with either pc-dos or rs-dos, the two get/put utils for foreign disks like messydawg etc. Have you looked at the code for "myram"? AFAIK, it should not have any such limits, and if there are any, its not in my code but in ioman or rbf, and I can say that rbf is clean in that regard since at least ed28. A 12 bit limit just doesn't seem to make sense to me. I run it at 1 meg all the time (myram) here, but thats thru ioman/rbf, not cc3disk. Check with Alan Dekok. If cc3disk has a limit, its the only known limit in the system. (thats smaller than the $FFFF limit for rbf that is) Cheers, Gene -*- 93451 27-AUG 16:27 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93446) From: MITHELEN To: WDTV5 It indead has a 12 bit limit (cc3disk) limmiting floppy disk sizes to 1 Meg. This has been verified. Why it was designed that way, I don't know... This applies to all versions of cc3disk baised off of Tandy's original. I don't know about others. A ram disk is just not practicle on theCoCo 3 emulator, since you are already limited to 512k, and ram disk access appears _slower_ then virtual floppy access. It would be REALLY benificial to be able to set up, say, a 20 meg virtual floppy, but wight now, that is impossible with the current cc3disk... I'd like to try SDisk, but I don't have a copy to test... If it worked, I'd be more then willing to buy a copy from whoever it is available from. -*- 93464 27-AUG 20:58 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93438) From: DBREEDING To: MITHELEN Paul, While you're working on rz, here's something to add to the wish list I've found that if you try to download a file and the filename already exists, it apparently neither warns you nor attempts to correct this condition. In downloading QWK files, in PKZip format, one of my BBS's always transmits the same filename, and if I forget to delete the old file, my new file does not appear. The new file has the correct length for the download, but on unzipping it, all I can get is the data from the OLD file. I really don't know what is happening. Could this possibly be fixed? It could be the source for problems if not taken care of. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93465 27-AUG 21:16 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93464) From: MITHELEN To: DBREEDING This is NOT a problem with the os9 rz/sz port... the BBS that is transmitting simply needs to add the "-y" option to tell the receiver to "clobber" existing files... Although, I dpn't know why the file size would get changed to that of the new file... -- Paul -*- 93474 28-AUG 19:17 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93451) From: JMURPHY To: MITHELEN > It indead has a 12 bit limit (cc3disk) limmiting floppy disk sizes to 1 Meg. > This has been verified. Why it was designed that way, I don't know... This > applies to all versions of cc3disk baised off of Tandy's original. I > don't know about others. A ram disk is just not practicle on theCoCo 3 > emulator, since you are already limited to 512k, and ram disk access appears > _slower_ then virtual floppy access. It would be REALLY benificial to be > able to set up, say, a 20 meg virtual floppy, but wight now, that is > impossible with the current cc3disk... > > I'd like to try SDisk, but I don't have a copy to test... If it worked, I'd > be more then willing to buy a copy from whoever it is available from. > I've got to differ with you on this: I routinely run a 10 meg vdisk, and some folks on the COCO fido echo run with larger. No problems as far as we can see. You do need to be running 1.42 of the CC3 emulator, however. John Murphy jmurphy@delphi.com -*- 93476 28-AUG 20:48 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93474) From: MITHELEN To: JMURPHY I believe I have tried 1.42 (that was the update sent out earlier this summer, right?) I'd appreciate a complete list of modules/patches that you are running. Especially in the area of floppy access, and kernel patches... I have repeatedly trashed out virtual disks over 1 meg as soon and I have copied more then 1 meg of stuff to them... Quite anoying, especially after makeing all them upgrade patches... -- Paul -*- 93478 28-AUG 20:53 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93451) From: WDTV5 To: MITHELEN Well, my ram.dr that I uploaded here doesn't have that limitation, I have experimentally copied 2 75=k floppies to it, and then copied them back, humm, that s/b 765k above, an 85 track double sided floppy. I used the @ sign to get it all going both ways. Worked just fine on my 2 meg coco 3. Slow? Well, maybe, I get a megaread from the Maxtor at 12.75 secs average, an 11 secs from the ramdisk, I figure the OS9 F$MOVE is the speed limit there. Cheers, Gene -*- 93480 28-AUG 22:43 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93476) From: JMURPHY To: MITHELEN Paul, First off, stupid question: What's a BAM? I'll dig up my modules list and post it later... I AM using the CC3DISK that the last version of PCDOS required, if that tells you anything. John -*- 93484 29-AUG 00:55 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93480) From: MITHELEN To: JMURPHY BAM = Bit Allocation Map. I believe that CC#disk you have is Edition 11, which is the version I have been trying to use... -- Paul -*- 93487 29-AUG 06:43 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93484) From: JMURPHY To: MITHELEN > BAM = Bit Allocation Map. I believe that CC#disk you have is Edition 11, > which is the version I have been trying to use... > -- > Paul > OK, is this related to DD.MAP, which is the number of bytes in the map? John -*- 93490 29-AUG 10:10 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93487) From: MITHELEN To: JMURPHY Ya... I believe that is correct... I don't have OS-9 Manuals handy anymore so can't check... -- Paul -*- 93496 29-AUG 19:57 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93465) From: DBREEDING To: MITHELEN > This is NOT a problem with the os9 rz/sz port... the BBS that is > transmitting simply needs to add the "-y" option to tell the receiver to > "clobber" existing files... Although, I dpn't know why the file size would > get changed to that of the new file... Can I add this option on my end? I always try to just delete the older file. Yes, my new file is the same length as given in the ZModem header,and also as reported by the BBS. But all I see is the data from the previous download. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93499 29-AUG 20:16 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93496) From: MITHELEN To: DBREEDING Nope, cause Zmodem is supposed to be Sender driven. Thus, all the options for trnasfer come from the sending end... __ Paul -*- 93513 30-AUG 23:52 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93480) From: WDTV5 To: JMURPHY Thats the same as a FAT, John. Stands for Bit Allocation Map, or File Allocation Table. Means the same thing essentially, and what it is is that area od an os9 disk that starts at sector 1's first byte, and continues until enought bytes have been used up with each bit of each byte have a 0 or 1 state that tells the operating system if there is anything stored in the sector that the bit represents. Normally each bit equals one sector, but under very large disk conditions it can be made to represent any power of 2, as in 2,4,8,16,32 etc sectors. On the disk, this means that the file descriptor sector, and the root directory location on the disk are variable. With my 1 sector/bit map, my root directory on this maxtor 7120s actually starts at sector $F3! Doing the initial, after bootup search thru a map this big looking for a place to put the first file written after bootup is a 15 second process even on a 6309 equipt, nitros9 running coco3. RBF remebers where the empty space starts, so the next write is much faster. And that is probably more than you wanted to know about the subject! 8:) Cheers John, Gene -*- 93514 30-AUG 23:54 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93487) From: WDTV5 To: JMURPHY Yes Cheers John, Gene -*- 93522 31-AUG 20:37 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93499) From: DBREEDING To: MITHELEN > Nope, cause Zmodem is supposed to be Sender driven. Thus, all the options > for trnasfer come from the sending end... OK... The question of overwriting files is moot in this case anyway.. this BBS closed down.. The other local BBS allows you to specify that the filename gets a different number in the name... so it is not a problem with it. It wasn't a problem on the other one till I got hasty and forgot to delete. Usually before a dload I'd just do a "dir *.qwk" to be sure it wasn't there. I have been trying the beta rz/sz with the local BBS. Have had no problems with it that I can tell - of course I must say that 3.24 seemed practically bulletproof on my system. I did notice one little cosmetic thing.. but does not affect performance. With the -vv option, it does not report the last partial block, but this would be more cosmetic than anything else. I normally use this option since it's nice to get a progress report. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93553 4-SEP 15:27 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93438) From: MIKE_GUZZI To: MITHELEN ive made a 9 meg partition with the coco3 emulator for os9. works good for me. if you want i can tell you how to do it. Mike -*- 93557 4-SEP 20:39 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93553) From: MITHELEN To: MIKE_GUZZI Sure, send me a dmode output of you discriptor... I haven't been able to set up OS-9 yet on the PC, and won't get to it for at least another week or two (I'll be out in NY all this week) -- Paul -*- 93584 7-SEP 22:22 Telecom (6809) RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93553) From: WDTV5 To: MIKE_GUZZI Hi Mike, sounds good. I'm listening with both my worn out ears! Cheers, Gene -*- End of Thread. -*- 93405 24-AUG 02:08 Users Group User's Group Help From: DIGIGRADE To: ALL Hi gang, I need help from the users group to debug a tiny routine. I am a member. This is one of the prime functions of the users group yes? Dave -*- 93426 26-AUG 00:06 Users Group RE: User's Group Help (Re: Msg 93405) From: CHYDE To: DIGIGRADE What's your problem, my Basic and assembler are a little rusty, but my C nad Lisp are up to speed . We can talk in mail also to save space in the message area . Chris -*- 93510 30-AUG 23:17 Users Group RE: User's Group Help (Re: Msg 93405) From: LARRYOLSON To: DIGIGRADE > Hi gang, I need help from the users group to debug a tiny routine. I am a > member. This is one of the prime functions of the users group yes? Dave If you would e-mail me what you are having a problem with, maybe I could help. Larry -*- End of Thread. -*- 93422 25-AUG 07:26 General Information RE: PC (Re: Msg 93335) From: PHXKEN To: CLTUCKER The CoCoII Emulator is at SimTel under msdos/emulator and the instructions are in that file for obtaining the coco3 emulator. It is also available in Atlanta at ACS bbs. phxken@delphi.com phxken@class68.com phxken@aztec.asu.edu(preferred) http://www.ccn.cs.dal.ca/~ah712/Profile.html in Halifax,N.S.,Ca. ***Physical home in Phoenix, Arizona USA*** -*- 93425 25-AUG 21:04 General Information PC From: CLTUCKER To: PHXKEN Thanks for the info. on the emulator. I will pursue that route in an effort to get RSDOS up and runnin on the PC(g) cl -*- 93428 26-AUG 05:03 Standards **** Ch.A.O.S. **** From: WOODZY To: ALL Hi, and welcome to Ch.A.O.S. Country. Welcome to the revolution. The Cheyenne Area Orphaned Systems, or Ch.A.O.S., is a club devoted solely for the preservation of classic non-IBM systems, such as ours, and for the defeat of Microsoft. If we wanted IB M compatability, we would have abandoned our systems long ago. Those of us who do have IBMs, but still use our classics, only bought them out of necessity, such as for work or school.This is not a political organization. We do not hold any specific r ight wing or left wing political views. We do believe in fair competition and Microsoft is NOT fair. We spent all that time and money on our respective systems because the performed the task or tasks we bought them for. Wether it be for gaming, educat ion, office, or whatever, our classic systems performed upto our expectations, and in some cases, beyond the original design. Why should we abandoned everything we put into our systems?I have been working on the designs of two programs that I feel wou ld unite all of our systems, yet retain the sovereignty or flavor of each individual system:1. A terminal shell with game maker to allow two or more non-compatable systems to play games over the modem or in a mini-network. Of course, standard protoco ls will have to be set between computers to ensure game play. But, graphics between two different systems wont have to be the same because screen data wont be sent, just tiny info packets. The games would take full advantage of the graphics and sound c apabilities of each individual system. The games would be played as close to real time as possible.2. A DEVICE OPERATING SYSTEM (DOS) desgined on a bi-level format: The primary level is a whole new computer that provides cross-platform compatability between our classic systems. The computer will be based on the PowerPC. This will allow each classic system to be enhanced to that of at least a 486. Without losing much compatability with the existing sytems. Full compatability is not guaranteed be cause of the new enhancements to each individual operating system. But, at least you wont have to abandon your whole classic system! The secondary level is a whole new disk operating system for the original classic. This will allow direct disk access communication between ALL systems. Yes, even IBM. Just imagine, a C64 computer operating system with 38k free RAM, can now have as much as 3.75 Meg free RAM on a 4 Meg System! This is directly accessable without bankswitching or even use as a RAMDISK! Just imagine the fresh, new applications that can be developed that retained the original C64s flavor. No, this is not limited to the C64, but to all classic systems, such as the Atari, Tandy CoCo, VIC20 (YES!), Apple, etc.All of our classic systems have their own uniqueness, their own distinctiveness. That is why we refused to follow the industry or marketing trends. This would allow us to preserve our systems and at the same time develop a cross-platform industry standard. Who says we have to follow the Microsoft standard? Lets follow a standard, sure, but we should also be allowed to keep our systems we have devoted so much time and energy into!Cheyenne Area Orphaned Systemsc/o Jeffrey Wood813 Covered Wagon DriveCheyenne, Wyoming 820 07-1671 -*- 93433 26-AUG 17:37 Standards RE: **** Ch.A.O.S. **** (Re: Msg 93428) From: WDTV5 To: WOODZY What did he say? I've had this same msg come down on the amiga sig, he must have cross-posted it to the whole world. If it made any sense, I might be able to reply, but as it stands, it looks like spam, it walfs like spam, so oit must be spam. Stick it back in the fridge where it belongd before it spoils! -*- 93448 27-AUG 15:46 Standards RE: **** Ch.A.O.S. **** (Re: Msg 93433) From: DBREEDING To: WDTV5 > What did he say? I've had this same msg come down on the amiga sig, he > must have > cross-posted it to the whole world. If it made any sense, I might be able > to reply, but as it stands, it looks like spam, Yep! Dunno how many copies I have... I've seen it almost everywhere I go.. To tell the truth, I didn't read it very closely, but it did sound like gibberish.. -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93477 28-AUG 20:49 Standards RE: **** Ch.A.O.S. **** (Re: Msg 93448) From: WDTV5 To: DBREEDING Well, if ya wanted to take the trouble to convert the various crlf conventions to ours, and reformat it into sentences and paragraphs, it might make sense. He is wanting to preserve oddball computers such as ours. Me, I can't make up my mind if I resent or resemble that 8:) Cheers Dave, Gene -*- 93498 29-AUG 19:57 Standards RE: **** Ch.A.O.S. **** (Re: Msg 93477) From: DBREEDING To: WDTV5 > Well, if ya wanted to take the trouble to convert the various crlf > conventions to ours, and reformat it into sentences and paragraphs, it > might make sense. He is wanting to preserve oddball computers such as > ours. Me, I can't make up my mind if I resent or resemble that 8:) It looked like he was looking for an additional source of income -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93511 30-AUG 23:43 Standards RE: **** Ch.A.O.S. **** (Re: Msg 93498) From: WDTV5 To: DBREEDING I do expect that not only may have crossed his mind, but some sort of a scam was in the offing, 'cept of course to him its not a scam. To: ALL (while I'm here), I've been messing around with the seriel port in the 4n1, and the last seriel port on my amiga, the ka9q proggy here on the coco, and AMITCP on the amiga. I've darned near got it working! If and when I do, I'll of course upload the bloody details. In the meantime, if anyone else has attempted this, and run into this, give me some hints please. In the meantime, just to waste some more bandwidth, here is a msg I composed offline. Welp, I've got enough of the ka9q network program running here on the coco that I am at least getting responses on the Amiga when I "ping -s 127 coco" from the amiga. That wasn't without a pitfall or two, starting with Tony D.'s non-standard header pinout for the 10 pinner used in the 4n1, and finishing with my adding the required additional buffers to allow rts/cts flow controls. But, what I'm asking the network/packet/ham folks now is, Is there a Ping for the os9 TCP/IP program KA9Q so I can duplicate the testing from the coco end? If yes, where can I get a copy? Later, I have a bit more of it working! I can start AmiTCP on the amiga, and "net" here on the coco. I can attempt to start an ftp session from the coco keyboard, but it appears that things are out of normal order. First, its several minutes before the response to the ftp comes back from the amiga. The response that does arrive eventually looks ok except for a lack of shell prompt on the coco. Entering "dir" from the coco keyboard causes it to go thru all the motions that you normally see from the remote sites response, except that the data comes back in short 1/2 second bursts at about 30 second intervals according to the sniffer lites on a rs232 tester riding the nul modem cable, and eventually it says "Transfer Complete", but still no shell prompt nor do I see the dir listing on the coco screen. Does anybody have any idea what "net" is doing with the data from the dir command that comes into the coco? Cheers all, Gene -*- End of Thread. -*- 93430 26-AUG 14:21 General Information Star NX 15 printer head From: NIMITZ To: ALL I've had problems with my Star NX15 printer recently - it fails to print on pinsnear the middle of the array and at the bottom. Alcohol soaks and oiling did noot help. any suggestions?? David -*- 93449 27-AUG 15:47 General Information RE: Star NX 15 printer head (Re: Msg 93430) From: DBREEDING To: NIMITZ > I've had problems with my Star NX15 printer recently - it fails to print > on pinsnear the middle of the array and at the bottom. Alcohol soaks and > oiling did noot help. any suggestions?? You may have trouble deeper down... I had an old Epson MX-80 once that got to where one (maybe 2) pin(s) quit. I tried a different printhead and all, but it still did the same... -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93506 30-AUG 04:04 General Information RE: Star NX 15 printer head (Re: Msg 93430) From: BROWN80 To: NIMITZ > I've had problems with my Star NX15 printer recently - it fails to print on > pinsnear the middle of the array and at the bottom. Alcohol soaks and oiling > did noot help. any suggestions?? > > David > You will probably have to get a new print head for it. I got one for a Star NX-1000 from Dayton, the guys that made the Blue Streak interface. Also, if they don't have any, there is a printer repair company called Laser Impact in Austin, TX that can either repair or replace the print head. Either way it'll cost about $50. There is an 800 number for them but I don't know it. John Brown -*- End of Thread. -*- 93444 27-AUG 13:10 General Information colin From: SMITHBA To: ALL All, Does anyone know Colin McKay's new E-Mail address. I sent mail to cmckay@northx.isis.com and the delphi postmaster sent it back as undeliverable. Thanks in advance, Brian Smith DELPHI:SMITHBA internet:smithba@delphi.com -*- 93454 27-AUG 16:33 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93444) From: MITHELEN To: SMITHBA Colin currently does not have email access... you can direct mail for Colin though Ken Scales, and he will forward it to Colin (KSCALES here on Delphi) -- Paul -*- 93461 27-AUG 16:57 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93444) From: DBREEDING To: SMITHBA > Does anyone know Colin McKay's new E-Mail address. I sent > mail to cmckay@northx.isis.com and the delphi postmaster sent Change this: --- ^^^ > it back as undeliverable. It should be: cmckay@northx.isis.org ^^^ -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93466 27-AUG 22:49 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93461) From: SMITHBA To: DBREEDING David, Thanks for the info, but I just called colin (land line), and he currently dosen't have a internet address. the system (isis) that he accesed through was canceled. Later Brian Smith DELPHI:SMITHBA internet:smithba@delphi.com -*- 93470 28-AUG 01:01 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93444) From: KSCALES To: SMITHBA > Does anyone know Colin McKay's new E-Mail address. I sent > mail to cmckay@northx.isis.com and the delphi postmaster sent > it back as undeliverable. Hi, Brian - As Paul mentioned in his reply, mail for Colin McKay may be sent to me ("KSCALES"; "kscales@delphi.com"). Colin's original Internet Service Provider left the business, and the company that took over their accounts dropped support for the protocols Colin was using, so he has not renewed his contract. He will be shopping for a replacement email arrangement. In the interim, please send any messages for him to me, and I will make sure that he gets them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales@delphi.com CIS:74646,2237 -*- 93492 29-AUG 19:56 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93466) From: DBREEDING To: SMITHBA > Thanks for the info, but I just called colin (land line), > and he currently dosen't have a internet address. > the system (isis) that he accesed through was canceled. Yes, I saw the message from someone to that effect... I did not realize this... -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93561 4-SEP 22:15 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93444) From: CLTUCKER To: SMITHBA Well good luck with any $ transaction that you have with Mr.C. I along with many others here have been burned. When queried about no merchandise forthcoming, I get a polite "HorseLaugh"(moan) cl -*- 93563 4-SEP 23:07 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93561) From: WA2EGP To: CLTUCKER Best bet is to contact the Canadian version of the Better Business Bureau. If you need an address, drop me an email. I'll get it from a friend who is going that route. -*- 93572 5-SEP 23:41 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93561) From: KSCALES To: CLTUCKER > Well good luck with any $ transaction that you have with Mr.C. I along > with many others here have been burned. When queried about no merchandise > forthcoming, I get a polite "HorseLaugh"(moan) Very nice character assassination in a public forum, where the individual is not even present to provide any rebuttal. You probably are on the waiting list for the (recently shipped) NitrOS9 package. I know that Colin would be the first to express his unhappiness with the delays in getting the new version out. He and Alan encountered many obstacles in completing this release (GIME and 6309 deaths, GIME bugs, hardware component differences, ... the list goes on). Those on the Princeton CoCo List probably have seen some of the history in Alan's postings. Nevertheless, the delays occurred, and shipping was delayed as a result. But they stuck with it, and began shipping the new release a couple of weeks ago. Certainly, few in this community have donated as much of their time (without re-imbursement) to CoCo and OS-9 users as Colin has, from fixing system problems for users, to providing a conduit for the location and exchange of hard-to-find hardware and software components, to his ongoing activities as president of the OS-9 Users Group. (In this latter role, most of his efforts are not even visible to the general membership, but he has been very active in making contacts, as evidenced in his MOTD column "Straight from the Horse's Mouth", which is probably the source of your snide remark above.) Colin and I frequently disagree on lots of things, but frankly I think that we would be hard-pressed to find a more dedicated and active president for the UG. Please, let's take this to private email for any further discussions. I will forward any messages to Colin to allow him to personally address any concerns you may have. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Scales Delphi:KSCALES Internet:kscales@delphi.com CIS:74646,2237 -*- 93575 6-SEP 19:32 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93561) From: SMITHBA To: CLTUCKER If you are refering to NitrOS9, than I have started dealing with alan DeKok. I sent him E-Mail last week, and recieved my new version today. Just downloaded, but havn't tried it yet. It should be V1.22F. Brian Smith DELPHI:SMITHBA internet:smithba@delphi.com -*- 93589 7-SEP 22:46 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93572) From: WDTV5 To: KSCALES Ken, I'm not so sure we ought to privatize this, cause I feel like I should be defending him too. Lets all take a deep breath and remember that for even Colin, this is a labor more of love than any monetary gain over and above the phone bills and postage used to do what has been done, AND that at the same time, he has to keep a day job that feeds the wife and kids. Thats why I've not done a lot lately too. With 2 machines to attempt to keep up with, I'm afraid the coco doesn't get 100% of my attention, probably more like 60% of the 20% of the available time compared to the time I could devote to it a year ago. For those that have sent him a few bucks, I imagine you will get what you paid for when Colin is happy with the code. 6 months down the road we'll either have it, if you've got something coming, or if he can't deliver, your money back, I think the question is, has he cashed your check? I got all uptight with another over on another sig a year back, turned out he hadn't backed up his drive, it crashed, and he had to re-write the darned thing from scratch! But I was snotty, we agreed to disagree, and I stopped the so far uncashed check after 90 days. I *think* Olaf Barthels "Term" was the better proggy anyway. Cheers, Gene -*- 93597 8-SEP 23:21 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93589) From: CLTUCKER To: WDTV5 My complaint about not receiving any merchandise for the $$ was not about Code. It was hardware that was advertised. Still waiting. Going on 2 years. Hard pressed, overworked or whatever, there is still such a thing as business ethics. w -*- 93601 9-SEP 01:45 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93597) From: WDTV5 To: CLTUCKER If its hardware, I can see your point. I *was* being a bit testy I guess. Sorry, Gene -*- 93603 9-SEP 10:52 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93601) From: CLTUCKER To: WDTV5 No apology necessary. Your were just sticking up for a friend. People need friends like you. cl -*- 93629 11-SEP 00:29 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93589) From: WA2EGP To: WDTV5 The two people I know who have been waiting for months and the thing that is getting them a little annoyed is that the stories are getting a little inconsistant (in their opinion) and they feel they are getting the runaround. I don't know if they ordered something already written or something still being debugged but it would be nice to at least something else besides the disks are being sent out each time one of them asks what gives. It sounds like the "check is in the mail" (grin). I keep trying to say "Have patience." but I think they feel it has gone on too long. One of the individuals has also been waiting months for manuals he has paid for from another vendor. Too bad. Could lead to people leaving for the PC world. -*- 93640 11-SEP 23:59 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93629) From: WDTV5 To: WA2EGP (NR) In light of the fact that one of them is squawking about undelivered Hardware, not software, I do have a tendency to agree with the squawks. However, I don't think he is dishonest yet. Just pinched with the everyday business of making a living. You would be amazed at just how hard it can be to get back to someone when you have moved, and can't find the information to carry on. I've had that happen to me, and on my end it wasn't enjoyable cause I knew I had people looking for me and muttering about what a fink that jerk is. Things are much better the last 15 years, specially the last 10, got rid of the cause. Cheers, Gene -*- 93643 12-SEP 21:38 General Information RE: colin (Re: Msg 93640) From: MRUPGRADE To: WDTV5 Having talked with Colin on Internet (he's since lost his feed),, and know ing one of our members who's been getting thh run around for about 10 months.. I'd agree,, it doesn't seem to be so much a csae of "purposful dishonesty", but extreemly poor judgement. I too can get lax at times somet sometimes to the tune of a week or so,, but 10 months??? for what it's worth,,, (or not) Terry Simons UPGRADE Editor -*- End of Thread. -*- 93445 27-AUG 13:53 General Information coco info From: SMITHBA To: ALL All, Is ther info or a list of the available electronic sources for coco and os9 info. I know about comp.os.os9. isnt there a coco list and somthing like bitnet. if there isn't a list, would someone in the know like to write one. also info on how to access bitnet, fidonet, and a list of the coco or os9 ftp sites. this info is probable availible, but it would be nice have it all in one place. Many thanks to whoever takes up this project. Brian Smith p.s. I do mean accesing the above items through delphi, or delphi's internet access DELPHI:SMITHBA internet:smithba@delphi.com -*- 93455 27-AUG 16:35 General Information RE: coco info (Re: Msg 93445) From: MITHELEN To: SMITHBA Look at the OS-9 FAQ, I believe it is in the databases here.. (Probably General) If not, let me know and I will upload it... I believe it has all the info you seek. -- Paul -*- End of Thread. -*- 93447 27-AUG 15:20 Programmers Den cc3disk From: WDTV5 To: MITHELEN Hi Paul; Ya got the questions flowing over here. So I just did a dis on my own cc3disk, a no-halter setup for nitros9. No place in it can I find a thing that would indicate a $FFF limit for the BAM of a floppy. A limitation of that order would limit us to an arbitrary 1 megabyte limit. So, since there are people out there using the older controllers with 1793/MB8877's in them running 1.44+ meg drives/disks, it sure looks like its a limit of the emulation rather than any real os9 limit. I'm not saying there isn't, but if it is, we've got more detective work than we thought. Cheers Paul, Gene -*- 93452 27-AUG 16:30 Programmers Den RE: cc3disk (Re: Msg 93447) From: MITHELEN To: WDTV5 I wonder if any of those pople with the hacked controllers have actually ever exceded 1 meg on them 1.44 meg disks, without it trashing the BAM on them. -- Paul -*- 93479 28-AUG 20:56 Programmers Den RE: cc3disk (Re: Msg 93452) From: WDTV5 To: MITHELEN How many sectors of BAM are we talking about? With a $FFF limit, thats a meg, which doesn't make sense. I'll look some more, but so far, I can't seem to see any code that would do the limit. Cheers Paul, Gene -*- End of Thread. -*- 93456 27-AUG 16:39 New Uploads Uploaded program: Lines.c From: KNOT1 To: ALL Well my first MM/1 C program if significance is here. I forgot that they like to keep the description page short, so figured will post the full one here where ya's only need to see it once, and can skip it readily enough if want to. :-) -------- Here's my first MM/1 C program (I've written others on the CoCo and such). I actually managed to do this with just a 1 meg system and a single floppy drive, so shows you can do stuff even with the very basic MM/1. :-) What it is is a fairly simple screen saver, but one I rather like. It started as a series of lines that bounced around, the old ones vanishing after a bit. Then I added colors and the option for using boxes instead, or even having it switch back and forth. This may well have been done before, as I actually 'borrowed' the idea from when I used to use a work station (well, the lines one, if not the boxes). It works very well with the upgraded modules, and the boxes mode is pretty quick. (If using the old/original drivers, as I had been until recently, it can sometimes 'hang' after running a while.. I believe that has to do with it mistaking LF's or CR's in the code to draw the lines..) I'm also including the source code with this, as it's a fairly simple program but uses a variety of features, which might be handy as examples for someone learning C, or if you just wanna play around with it. :-) Usage: lines [{line|box}] [-n={num el}] [-p={pause}] [-s={switch count}] Min/def/max: /line/ 1/10/30 0/0/180 0/0/10000 The 'line' or 'box' option is what type of elements it will draw (or start with, if switching mode is on). 'n' is the number of lines and/or boxes that will be on the screen at once. 'p' is the number of ticks it will pause between each element drawn, if you wish to slow it down, and 's' is the number of elements it will draw before switching from lines to boxes or vise versa, and then start counting over (0 means no switching). I like to run mine as 'lines -s=500' usually. It opens its own screen to run on (type 0, and assumes 640x208 with 16 colors) and sets its priority down to 5 on its own (yet another 'borrowed' idea from one I seen in the database here.. :-). This is released as a 'Freeware' program. Enjoy! - Jamie (KNOT1) - -*- 93467 27-AUG 22:59 OSK Applications OS-9/68k memory test... From: MITHELEN To: ALL Does anyone know of a memory test program for OS-9/68k systems... I've recently been experiancing some weird problems on my MM/1 and I think it might be the simms may be going bad on me... I've tried reseating them and the other socketed stuff on he PCB's but nothing seems to have helped... -- Paul -*- 93486 29-AUG 01:06 OSK Applications RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93467) From: WA2EGP To: MITHELEN I wish I knew of one but be careful. I had a SIMM go and take out a trace on the I/O board (internal of course). Mark repared it for me (when he was still with us). Doesn't the machine check the memory in some superficial way when it boots? -*- 93489 29-AUG 10:08 OSK Applications RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93486) From: MITHELEN To: WA2EGP The only teststhat I know of are the CRC checking of loaded modules. -- Paul -*- 93500 29-AUG 20:26 OSK Applications RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93467) From: JOHNBAER To: MITHELEN Paul, > Does anyone know of a memory test program for OS-9/68k systems... I remember Mark wrote a small C program that would do it. It was in one of his mag's... Also, you had to take the mm/1 back to a one meg system to use this `test' program, but you could check both 4 meg sim's this way. John - -*- 93512 30-AUG 23:52 OSK Applications RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93489) From: WA2EGP To: MITHELEN OK. Well, I thought it might. How I ever got that idea, I don't know. Guess I'm thinking of other computers I have that do that (non-PC ones). Have to look into this. -*- 93520 31-AUG 19:13 OSK Applications RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93489) From: JOHNREED To: MITHELEN Paul, There are a couple of memory test programs that I got along with the 8-meg board for the MM/1. If I remember right, Mark G. wrote them, and they require that the MM/1 jumpers be set to run as a 1-meg machine, but with the 4-meg simms plugged in - the program then does a test on the 4-meg simms. Sounds confusing, but thats what I remember. Anyway, if these programs would help you, let me know. JohnW -*- 93521 31-AUG 19:31 OSK Applications RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93520) From: MITHELEN To: JOHNREED Ya John, that would be of help. -- Paul -*- End of Thread. -*- 93468 28-AUG 00:06 General Information OSlev I ver 2.0 From: MRUPGRADE To: RONMAGOO I just put your MI&CC Library of orpder together. It'll go out tomorrow. Including theh Mvue programs & utilities. But OS Lev I Ver 2.0 That I don't have,, I have several Lev II's of course, original. Will problem give 'em at thh Atlanta Fest. But Lev I ver anything is rare in my house. Maybe someone here can help. . (~~~~~~~~~~~~))) (---- -----))) l l l\\\\ l l l~~~~ il l l l hen l l l erry g \\\\\\\ ~~~~~~~ * Hooked on phonics works real well * * huked on foniks, a grate wae to spel * -*- 93528 2-SEP 07:27 General Information RE: OSlev I ver 2.0 (Re: Msg 93468) From: RONMAGOO To: MRUPGRADE Thanks for the effort Terry, I received my order just fine. Like you say, maybe someone else here has a copy of OS-9 Level One Version 02.00, and will reply. Thanks again, -= RON =- -*- 93535 3-SEP 14:18 General Information RE: OSlev I ver 2.0 (Re: Msg 93528) From: 01GEN40 To: RONMAGOO Hi Ron, I have OS-9 Level 1 Ver. 1 w/Ver.2.0 disks and addendum. It includes all the original manuals, in its original slip-sleave box. Talk to me! See ya among the stars... LONG LIVE OS-9! ** In whatever form it is in! Peace and Long Life... Siran of Vulcan (CMDR) -= GEN =- -*- 93554 4-SEP 16:48 General Information RE: OSlev I ver 2.0 (Re: Msg 93535) From: RONMAGOO To: 01GEN40 Gen, Johnbaer also responded. If I don't get what I need from him, I will get back with you. Thanks for your response. -= RON =- -*- 93613 10-SEP 11:53 General Information RE: OSlev I ver 2.0 (Re: Msg 93554) From: 01GEN40 To: RONMAGOO Hi Ron, No problem Ron. I am out here once a week to read all the Forum messages. Just don't ask me for WINDOZE 95! ;-) Thanks for the reply... See ya among the stars... LONG LIVE OS-9! ** In whatever form it is in! Peace and Long Life... Siran of Vulcan (CMDR) -= GEN =- -*- 93628 10-SEP 23:48 General Information RE: OSlev I ver 2.0 (Re: Msg 93613) From: RONMAGOO To: 01GEN40 (NR) Just received E-Mail from JohBaer. He mailed what I needed Friday. Thanks again for your interest. I Just got a set of 80 track drives and will be getting more into OS-9. Am sure I'LL need more help from this forum as I progress. -= RON =- -*- End of Thread. -*- 93471 28-AUG 07:11 General Information RE: Conference Update&Misc (Re: Msg 93290) From: DSRTFOX To: THETAURUS Thanks for the input (and plugs!) on "the world of 68' micros" (268'm). The reason for going bi-monthly is to keep the magazine going uninterrupted AND not late! I do hope to improve as time goes on. I would really like to add some OSK programming articles... a regular column would be nice! That would get some more OSK interest and possibly some more industrial advertising and subscribers. Francis (Frank) Swygert Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine `[1;37;41mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered -*- 93488 29-AUG 08:44 General Information OS-9 Late night From: MROWEN01 To: THETAURUS Congradulations on the 1 year mark Chris! Sorry I could not be there to cel YUCK! Celebrate in person. I hope you had a good turn out. The IRC conference was a no show, but some people said they tried to get in but the Delphi Server may have been hung up. the only person I spoke with was on Delphi, but he was not an OS-9 aware user. :) He was just poking around for gif files of dragons. I'm looking forward to our Labor Day OS-9 Late night topic. I will be at this one! :) I'm using a clunky emulator at work right now, so I suspect this message will appear somewhat disorganized. Sorry for the crumby message, but I can't break out! The emulator won't let me! Again Congradulations and thanks for all of your hard work over the past year! -Mike Rowen -*- 93543 3-SEP 21:42 General Information RE: OS-9 Late night (Re: Msg 93488) From: THETAURUS To: MROWEN01 >>Congratulations on the 1 year mark Chris!<< Thanks Mike! Things are still going on quite well. I just hope this keeps up. I've been very behind as of late and not on the computer as much, which is why this message is so late. I've only been going online, getting messages and letting them accumulate. That explains this wad of messages I have to read and reply to now. Hope to see you tomorrow night. Well, since you WILL be hosting it...;-) >Chris< -*- End of Thread. -*- 93501 29-AUG 23:05 Telecom (6809) BAM problems? From: JMURPHY To: MITHELEN Well, even if the Bit Allocation Map is limited to 12 bits, thats still a healthy number of sectors: 12 bits = 4096. 4096 maximum BYTES in the map, 4096 * 8 = 32768 bits = 32768 sectors 32768 * 256 bytes per sector = 8,388,608 bytes. Hmm, it looks like problems should be apparent at the 8 Meg size. I haven't filled my VDISK that full, and I don't think I will, after doing these calculations. John Murphy -*- 93502 30-AUG 00:07 Telecom (6809) RE: BAM problems? (Re: Msg 93501) From: MITHELEN To: JMURPHY Hmm... Ok.. Well.. I hope to get OS-9 going on the emulator again soon, and I'll try it with the latest version of the emulator (perhaps I never tried it with the upgrade before) And then I'll report back here with my results... -0- Paul -*- 93515 31-AUG 00:00 Telecom (6809) RE: BAM problems? (Re: Msg 93501) From: WDTV5 To: JMURPHY Your math is correct! Humm, so I wonder at the supposed 1 meg liimitation we've been discussing. I haven't had a chance to check, but I wonder it its not BAM probs, but 1 byte track number problems, as thats all the wider the track register is in a #$%&*)(" 1773! If the emu is really precisely done, that would have to be it. Somebody do the math plz. Cheers, gene -*- End of Thread. -*- 93507 30-AUG 07:04 General Information New MOTD From: JEJONES To: ALL Just got the latest MOTD in the mail. Excellent work, IMHO. Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors. -*- 93530 2-SEP 16:29 General Information RE: New MOTD (Re: Msg 93507) From: JOHNBAER To: JEJONES > Just got the latest MOTD in the mail. Excellent work, IMHO. I just got it today (9/2) and did a flip through. Layout/format look great. Now to make time to read it. John -*- End of Thread. -*- 93509 30-AUG 23:14 General Information 4 Meg Simms From: ADITNAVEL To: ALL I've been thinking about upgrading my MM/1 to 8 Meg, and I was hoping someone could tell me somethiong about the 4 Meg Simms. What is the difference between the 4M x9 (9 chip) and the 4M x9 (3chip)? It would appear on the surface there is no difference, both being 4x9, but obviously there must be since both are produced. Can anybody enlighten me on this? I'd appreciate any info you can provide. Thanks! -*- 93518 31-AUG 12:51 General Information RE: 4 Meg Simms (Re: Msg 93509) From: MITHELEN To: ADITNAVEL I don't have an absolute answere for you, but, I am using the 9 chip variety (actually, they may be 8 chip, ie 4m x 8 simms) I would imagine the 3 chip ones draw a fair amount less power. Someone else more in the know will hopefully be able to give a better answer. -- Paul -*- End of Thread. -*- 93516 31-AUG 00:04 General Information 68070 From: ADITNAVEL To: ALL I was wondering if anyone out there had the Philips manuals (user/app, etc for the scc68070 and scc66470. If so, could you please let me know what the order no. etc is for them (should be on the cover), because tried to order them from philips, but they said they couldn't find them. Heck, the SCC66470 isn't even listed in their concise guide! Thanks! -*- 93536 3-SEP 15:07 General Information RE: 68070 (Re: Msg 93516) From: LARRYOLSON To: ADITNAVEL > I was wondering if anyone out there had the Philips manuals (user/app, > etc for the scc68070 and scc66470. If so, could you please let me know > what the order no. etc is for them (should be on the cover), because > tried to order them from philips, but they said they couldn't find them. > Heck, the SCC66470 isn't even listed in their concise guide! > > Thanks! > What I have here is: User Manual 1991 Part 1 - Hardware 16/32 - Bit Highly Integrated Microprocessor SCC68070 on the back cover is a number that could be what you are looking for: 9398 651 50011 User Manual 1990 Part 2 - Software 16/32 - Bit Highly Integrated Microprocessor SCC68070 back cover number: 9398 650 40011 Video and System Controller SCC66470 back cover number: 9398 368 50011 The above book is a bound copy, I also have what I guess you would call bound data sheets with the following number on it: 9397 242 30142 I^C Peripherals for Microcontrollers (thats I squared) back cover number: 2004MQ/35M/FP/0192 400pp Master Product Catalog Q4 1991 - Q1 1992 1031X/22M/CR5/1091 I hope this helps, Larry -*- 93549 4-SEP 00:09 General Information RE: 68070 (Re: Msg 93536) From: ADITNAVEL To: LARRYOLSON Thanks for info! Hopefully Phillips can find their own products now ! -*- End of Thread. -*- 93525 31-AUG 23:12 Programmers Den RE: _gs_rdy() Question (Re: Msg 90824) From: BILLHOOD To: NIMITZ -*- 93526 1-SEP 21:51 OSK Applications KA9Q From: MRGOOD To: ALL WHat does KA9Q do and what can it do for me? Hugo -*- 93532 2-SEP 22:42 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93526) From: WA2EGP To: MRGOOD Well, he wrote a TCP/IP for the PC (I've seen it work). Real neat seeing two machines effectively sharing their drives. -*- 93539 3-SEP 17:43 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93526) From: VAXELF To: MRGOOD Hugo, KA9Q is a amateur radio TCP/IP networking program. It allows you along with a TNC set to KISS mode, to network via radio with other amateurs running TCP/IP. You will need to get a 44.XX.XX.XX IP address from your local coridnator (sp). You can network on HF,VHF,UHF, & higher ham bands. It can also be used with a Eithernet card to network with another computer. I once setup two computers, both running KA9Q. One was also hooked to a TNC and a VHF radio. It also had a eithernet card that was connected to the second computer running KA9Q. I was able to use computer #1 as a router and use computer #2 to access the TNC. Also computer #1 has access to the hard drives on computer #2 and vesaversa. So it can be used as a local LAN too. Unless you have OS/2 or a OS9/OSK system, you will find the MSDOS version takes all the computer time. That is, you can not run anything esle but KA9Q. With OS/2, OS9/OSK, or possible Windows95, you can run KA9Q in one window while using another window to do something else. There is now a version for OS/2 called PMNOS V1.3. Hope this helps John A. Donaldson -*- 93546 3-SEP 21:50 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93539) From: MRGOOD To: VAXELF Ah, so it's really for packet radio. I though perhaps it was something that could be used for Internet access. Hugo -*- 93551 4-SEP 15:03 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93546) From: VAXELF To: MRGOOD It can be used also to network two or more MM/1's or other OSK systems together. In this case, assign bogus IP address to each system. Then you can telnet (logon) to any of the systems or FTP (file xfer) to any of the systems. This can be done via serial ports. It's a poorman's TCP/IP LAN so to speak. John D. -*- 93555 4-SEP 17:06 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93546) From: JIMDIXON To: MRGOOD Hugo: The IBM PC version of KA9Q also supports the packet driver series of ethernet card drivers, and has builtin ppp support. I would suspect that the OSK version could be interfaced with ppp as well, though it may not support it "out of the box". I think the CoCo version (which I haven't had time to look at) is a slip only version. James Dixon -*- 93562 4-SEP 22:59 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93546) From: WA2EGP To: MRGOOD Bob Billson and I saw it demonstrated at the Trenton Computer Fest several years ago when they were just hooking up machines through the RS-232 ports and sharing files, essentially both machines accessing each other's drives. I guess we saw it in the early days since I have the MS-Dog version on 5.25 floppies! BTW, KA9Q is the call letters of the person who wrote it (did major work on it). It is still a "version" of TCP/IP. It's getting like the name Frankenstein being associated with the monster rather than the creator of the monster. Bad example I know but the only one I could think of at the moment (grin). If you are interested, I still have the disks for the early (maybe non-packet) version and hopefully the bits haven't fallen off yet. -*- 93568 5-SEP 18:01 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93562) From: MRGOOD To: WA2EGP Thanks Bob. I'll pass on the offer. I thought it was something I could use on CIS's PPP access. Hugo -*- 93581 7-SEP 22:17 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93546) From: WDTV5 To: MRGOOD Well, maybe.... At the moment, I have managed to get AmiTCP's "ping" to work over a null modem cable to the coco. FTP either way so far eludes me, but it appears to work until attempts to get past the othere machines password, and is then rejected. I hope to get it figured out eventually. Cheers, Gene -*- 93583 7-SEP 22:21 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93551) From: WDTV5 To: VAXELF Now if I could just get the coco-ka9q thing to work between here and the Amy. Password problems as near as I can tell. Ping works, but I gotta tell ya, a 512 byte ping will have a round trip time of over a second on a null cable. Cheers, Gene -*- 93585 7-SEP 22:26 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93555) From: WDTV5 To: JIMDIXON You are correct Jim. That may be one of the probs I'm having with it, the coco version of slip may not be totally compat with "rhslip.device" on the Amiga. But I'm still working on that. I'll take any hints anybody can throw out. One thing I've found is that the Amy stuffs just won't fly at all if I slow the baud rate below 9600. With no flow controls on the port I'm using on the coco, the seriel in the 4n1 with no patches done. So rts/cts flow control is not usable until I get that hardware installed. Lack of space in the 4n1 is the biggest hurdle. Cheers, Gene -*- 93586 7-SEP 22:31 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93562) From: WDTV5 To: MRGOOD Or, if things get really desperate, I could drag it off the earlier CDROM's I have that actually included the source! On the Amiga, the AmiTCP/IP is I think, a write fresh from the RFC's, but its now called AmigaNOS in its later incarnations. No source for that tho. Cheers, Gene -*- 93605 9-SEP 16:34 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93583) From: VAXELF To: WDTV5 You should see a ping over 2M VHF radio. I am using the OSk version and Kennth WB5ORA lives 3 miles away. It takes on average 11500 ms on a ping. He is running a FTP session as I type this message. BTW, we just setup at work a old 8086 7MHZ system as a router. We are using the MSDOS version of KA9Q as the router. (JNOS). Works great. Pings are from 0ms to 2ms depending on the router load. John D. -*- 93606 9-SEP 16:37 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93581) From: VAXELF To: WDTV5 Gene, Did you setup the "ftruser" file on the coco and Amiga ?? If so did you set the access code 1 -read only 2-write only 3-read/write 7-superuser. John D. -*- 93608 10-SEP 02:26 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93605) From: WDTV5 To: VAXELF I take it part of that is the tr relay turnaround time? No, on 2M, you should be running full duplex if you have good diplexers. 3 miles isn't that many light years away. What box are you running on the 2M rig. I'm not at all fam with the KISS stuffs, think I saw it run once at a friends place up in Shinston WV 3-4 years ago. Some kind of a packet TNC he called that one. Gee, 11.5 seconds to ping really sounds like there is a major chunk of molasses in the gears. Course I know that since you have to wait for clear air at times, thats part of it. The 2 ms is much more like it. Cheers, Gene -*- 93609 10-SEP 02:32 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93606) From: WDTV5 To: VAXELF Humm, yeah, they're both set for 7, both ends. Haven't looked at it any more tonight, been playing with a new dialer for the amy, 20x faster than calling term thru a rexx script to do it, but I still haven't made it bring the PPP'S together on both ends yet. So I thinks theres an error and then hangs the modem up, I=it above. If I get that going, I may drop this account, can't afford both. But then again, maybe not. Prob is that me & the missus signed up a new house contract a year back that trades a 30 year payoff for 6 years. So between now and then we aren't vacationing in the Bahamas! Cheers John, Gene -*- 93619 10-SEP 17:25 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93608) From: VAXELF To: WDTV5 first there is TX startup delay. That is letting the xmiter getup to speed before you transmit. that is on both ends, plus the clear air delay, and ect. Remember when doing a ping over the air, you have delays on both sides. All of these add up. my guess is the startup delay is in the order of 100 ms alone. TCP/IP over radio at 1200 baud is slow. If I could goto 9600 baud, I would then see ping times around 1 sec. there are networks now ruuning at 56Kbaud at 1.2GHNZ and 10GHZ. On these you can not really see any difference. One yes one other delay is that ALL TCP/IP and packet connects are HALF-DUPLEX, since communictions are on a simplex freq. Up on 1.2 and 10 GHZ you can run duplex real easy. John D. -*- 93627 10-SEP 22:32 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93619) From: GREGL To: VAXELF Typical values of TX delay seem to be in the neighborhood of 100 to 150 milliseconds. I think I've run my Yaesu FT-2400 down to 60 milliseconds without problem. It's been almost a year since I've been on packet, though. Around here the frequencies are too crowded with maildrops between FBB systems. It wouldn't be so bad but most of 'em are to 4SALE@ALLUS or something at ALLUS having nothing to do with anything. Haven't decided to sell the TNC yet, but don't have much desire to work VHF packet these days. -- Greg -*- 93635 11-SEP 21:35 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93627) From: VAXELF To: GREGL Humm, shame it's not a multi-mode. I like to run pactor,amtor, & rtty on 20M's. You can always use the tnc on HF packet. If you do let me know and mabey we can setup a sked on 20M's. John D. WB5DGQ -*- 93638 11-SEP 23:52 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93619) From: WDTV5 To: VAXELF (NR) As they say in Singapore, "Ah soo" I had forgotten that the majority of it went at 1200/2400 baud, depending on the repeaters audio bandwidth. I used to have an old cow barn radio, a High Gain 723 I had made into a 740 (shh, thats supposed to be a secret) whose ONLY selectivity was a crystal filter that had to work on both ancient mary and ssb, so it was a bit over 4khz wide. Two of them things talking to each other weren't voice quality, they was the genuine HI-FI! I had a bunch of work in that radio, dead stable frequencies for one, and moving a jumper on the motherboard ran the output from 10 w ssb, to around 60! It made more clean power day after day than any ft101 or K-1200 ever thought of. Being long winded got the 12JT6 output tube a bit red tho. Gee, those werre the days (13+ years ago) Cheers, Gene -*- 93646 13-SEP 19:22 OSK Applications RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93635) From: GREGL To: VAXELF (NR) I thought about trying HF packet at one time, but I haven't gotten very enthusiastic about working digital modes on HF. Nothing wrong with it, of course, just not my cup of tea right now. I haven't gotten into working satellites either. Something about waiting for a "bird" to come overhead, and being in position ready to go doesn't appeal to me right now. About all I do these days is voice on VHF and CW on HF. -- Greg -*- End of Thread. -*- 93529 2-SEP 10:50 General Information CoCo Marketing From: MRUPGRADE To: ALL The following is a reprint from "The UPGRADE" (#12 03/92) disk magazine, by permission of the author and editor. With the same permission it was reprinted in UPTIMES magazine. Though opinion, I'd say educated opinion. Insofar as I've delt in Commerical CoCo software, TDP products, and headed one of the largest Coco groups in the nation. A long post 118 lines. The COCO Market place, (c) 03/92 What, happened? How? by Terry Simons The main problem to our misunderstanding of Tandy's marketing of the CoCo is simple. We look from a different view point to a different goal. That is, Tandy wanted a Computer product that would: A. make money in the face of competing C-64's, TI's, etc B. be an inexpensive introduction to buyer. So you could throw it away and buy a more expensive, big brother. Tandy accomplished "THEIR OWN" goals quite successfully. From the days of the gun metal grey, they made big dollars. And the truth is at least 70% of 'em hit the buyers closet in the first three months of ownership. I'd heard the same thing about $2,000 Apples in th 80's. WE conversly; took "A & B" and saved money; while getting the best of the lot for our purposes and adding "C" C. developed it beyond their wildest expectations. Using the sleeping power of the 6809 processor, Motoroloa wanted to get rid. What we often forget is "C" was never part of the RS scheme, nor did they really even care. Left up to Tandy we'd still be using Scriptsit, and Spectaculator. We the tinkerers, are the ones who developed the CoCo power! The Marketing Whether we agree with it or not, Radio Shack has a franchise system. Any such system must involve and maintian standards. You just can't let everyone compete with your franchisors,,, or who'd buy in or work for it? This means product control is primary. Keep support and repair within the system. This mainly worked against TANDY computers in a number of areas. And in other ways for them. The APPLE and MS DOS opened doors for the world to write software for their machines. It's no irony that the the machines who open thier doors to the world,,, were chosen by the world. The APPLE despite it's combursome processor, stomped though and still stands tall in the educational systems. And we all know how the IBM faired. But Radio Shack was saying, STAR DOS is the only DOS. And if we don't write it the program doesn't exist. Just as Radio Shack salespeople (early 80's) were strictly forbidden to talk of third party software or support on any of their computers. For years any outside modification to a Radio Shack computer would be removed before any service would be preformed. I called it the "Head in the sand policy". It sounds much nicer then "Head up your,,,, well... you know". A little time proved other brands were beating the britches off Model III & IV computers sales until they opened their doors to third party in about 1988 or 89. Well, actually it was more like they began to peek one eye out of the sand,, or whatever. From the CoCo standpoint,,, they did a "toung in cheek" recognition of third party. They did recognize there was a RAINBOW magazine and could discuss the existance of third party without the fear of being fired. With a sprinkling of third party demos in the stores,, and you could express order some software,, i.e. 5 or 6 line discription in a catalogue. With the COCO this did work for Radio Shack. As a dealer and a guy who knew a large variety of users; I can tell you; Radio Shack outsold third party software 10 to 1. Despite the superior quality of third party. Now,,, are we gonna call them the dummies? If you think Radio Shack is alone in this practice, you're in for a big surprise. Try making lawn furniture and selling it to a local "Earle May store". Make a nice toy and approach a local Toys 'N Us store. You'll be told quite promptly; we only take orders through the main office in... One orante furniture shop in our mall, has only items from India and, Tialand. Prices; including every sale price; are set only by the head office in another state. It really gives meaning to "buy local". Just a few years back, Sears appliance parts lists, were not available to independant repairmen. Product and price control are a part of what gives a corperations clout and makes a franchise work. Buying a Radio Shack VCR opened a new awareness for me. If I buy it at Radio Shack, I'd better figure on paying whatever they want to fix it. As I was told by an independant repairman, "thier parts are so expensive to me, it's simpler to replace the VCR". Tandy might say they did make an attempt in '84 to offer the CoCo outside the RS system under that name TDP. A wholesaler here in Des Moines layed in a stock of the TDP computers with accessories. After which RS dropped the base price another hundred dollars! Thus jerking the rug from under this independant distributor (of their products) feet. It only happens once. TDP lingered for a year or so; never seeing real independant distributor support. It's no doubt a very accurate guess to say; The CoCo would have stomped through the computer world, folding under the Commadore, Atari, and any others. IF it been marketed in all stores like the C-64. With a realistic incentive of buyers in the local marketplace; Developers would have taken both the CoCo 2 and 3 software far beyond the mail order tinkerers. The problem with all this is,,, we have left reality in thinking. What makes the Radio Shack and other franchise systems work is; thier products are not sold up and down the street from that store. From the beginning the CoCo sold; from an electronics store; naturally to the type person who was more technical minded. The searcher, that tinkerer. The exceptions; and I knew many who bought CoCo 1,2's; finding a lack of convience (real support) promptly returned them and bought Atari of C-64's. During and in the end, the CoCo was bought by us; The seekers and the thinkers. We love to seek and get excited when we find. We are not the majoriety. We will spend the time to experiment and learning, for thrill of discovery. Put it all together and you'll find: The CoCo was marketed not for everyone. "It was marketed,,, just for us"! Third party,,, a story in itself. Part II "Third party", was continued in the Next issue. If you want I'll post is as well. Note: The UPGRADE survives quite well with paid subscribers through out the US & Canada, and a few other countries. Leave EMAIL for rates, etc. Terry Simons UPGRADE Editor -*- 93533 3-SEP 01:41 General Information RE: CoCo Marketing (Re: Msg 93529) From: BROWN80 To: MRUPGRADE That is a very good and concise explanation of what caused the downfall of the CoCo. It is also a good explanation of how the Tandy's of the world helped Sam Walton and others like him build retail empires. John Brown -*- End of Thread. -*- 93537 3-SEP 15:07 Users Group RE: OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook (Re: Msg 92974) From: LARRYOLSON To: THETAURUS I hope this isn't too late..... OS-9 Sourcebook Information Form -------------------------------- Name: Larry E. Olson --------------------------------------------------------------- Business: Machine Repairman - GMT&B ----------------------------------------------------------- Address: 6670 Manson Dr. ------------------------------------------------------------ City: Waterford State: Michigan ZIP: 48329 ---------------- --------------- -------------------- Country: U. S. A. Telephone:( 810 ) 623 - 7863 ---------------- --------------------------------- EMail Address:CIS - 72227,3467 Delphi - LARRYOLSON ----------------------------------------------------- Signature: Date: 03 / 09 / 95 ------------------------------------ DD MM YY Would you like information on joining the OS-9 Users Group? X Already a Member! o Yes o No Can this information be passed to OS-9 vendors? X Yes o No Are you available to act as a volunteer for OS-9 X Yes o No projects from time to time? This isn't a commitment. Please indicate your area(s) of interest: X OS-9/6809 X OS-9/68000 o OS-9000 X Programming X Hardware Other ________________________ You use OS-9 primarily for what purpose: X personal use o industrial system o both Please describe briefly your OS-9 computer system(s): 1 CoCo1, 3 CoCo3's, one in a pc box, one in a model 4 portable box one stock CoCoo3. 1 MM/1 which I currently use about 99% of the time. Please describe briefly your computer and OS-9 experience: I started out programming on a SWTPC 6800, moved to the CoCo1 because it had a 6809 processor in it. Did mainly assembly & Basic stuff. When i got a CoCo3 I got hooked on OS9, still just assembly & Basic09 programming. When I got the MM/1 I decided to get into 'C'. This is mainly what I use now even though I'm still not totally comfortable with the "C" language. Please describe your OS-9 interests (things you would like to see the UG do, or see in the MOTD), or list any other questions or comments: I would like to see some team projects. I think alot more programs would be out there if this was used. Nowadays, you can't expect the lone programmer to bring out killer applications all by thier self. The killer programs now need great graphics & sound along with good algorithm's. In my case my weak points are graphics & sound, where someone else might be great with graphics but weak at programming, or someone else might find sound programming a snap, but needs help with graphics. This team approach would also help the problem that pretty much all of us hold full time jobs and can only put so many hours a week in programming. Somewhere along the way we seem to have lost the kids(under 18), who were always pushing the envelope. -*- 93622 10-SEP 20:57 Users Group RE: OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook (Re: Msg 93537) From: THETAURUS To: LARRYOLSON >>I hope this isn't too late...<< Nope, you can never be too late, since sourcebook forms will always be welcome, including updates and additions. I do ask one thing though for others who are about to send theirs in. I prefer to get them in email as it is a little easier to work with them and organize. I am also less likely to lose it that way. Thanks for getting it back to me! Now about your comments at the end... >>I would like to see soeme team projects. I think a lot more programs would be out there if this was used. Nowadays, you can't expect the lone programmer to bring out killer applications all by .......<<< I won't include the rest, but I agree and also have been wanting to see something of this nature. I would also like to take part in such a thing sometime in the future but am unavailable for such a project right now. This is a excellent way to 1) get more programs written and 2) to help teach programming to others through a team cooridinated ongoing project. An American version of the TOPS and EFFO packages could be killer. Chris Perrault OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook Coordinator -*- End of Thread. -*- 93540 3-SEP 20:25 System Modules (6809) myram8 info From: DOMM To: WDTV5 Gene--- I think your the guy I have to talk to about this one. I seem to be having a problem trying to get my ram disk setup with your driver "ram8.dr". Maybe you could point me in the right direction. I was using the "/R0" amd "Rammer" from the "Start OS-9" disk. When I try to load sound files to the ramdisk, it crashes. (Free /r0) gives plenty of space. empty=177K+) After reading your description, I decided to install your driver and see what happens. I can't Iniz and format /r0. I disasm'd /r0 and I see that the "drvnam" for /r0 is "RAMMER", as it should be since I was using "RAMMER" before. Your driver is named "RAM". So far, by using kwikzap to change bytes, I haven't been able to change either the /r0 "drvnam" to "RAM", or change the "RAM" mod name to "RAMMER". Whats the best way to harmonize these things? Xmode gives the drvnam option for /t2 type things but dmode doesn't seem to for /d0,/r0, etc.. Any thoughts will be appreciated. ---Dom -*- 93580 7-SEP 22:11 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93540) From: WDTV5 To: DOMM Welp, first, the download should have had the descriptor to fit it in the archive. Second, once up and installed, its totally self initializing! All you have to do is open the first path to it, or even do a "dir" or "free". Use the whole package, and forget about formatting it, it won't. Period. As the docs say, the only variable in the descriptor that it actually uses is the "sct", oops, take that back, it also uses the "sas" value for when it allocates additional space for a file. I have 2 megs here, so my "sct=1000" gives me a ramdisk of a megabyte. Repeat, no other values in the descriptor are actually used. You can "deinit" it to remove it from memory as far as the memory it uses being allocated by os9. I haven't used the iniz command other than for a window once in a while in my startup so I can't tell you if that works or not. Lemme try it. Yes, that works, but why? It takes only a few milliseconds for it to initialise itself anytime an access as attempted and it hasn't been initialised. I'd guess maybe 300 milliseconds on this machine to "iniz" it to a 1 megabyte size. I'm native mode here too, so that helps, but if you got the .8 version, it should work for both systems in fact, just a few bytes cleaner for the .3 version and marginally quicker, very marginally. The access is only slightly faster than my hard drive in actual fact, mainly due to os9's having to pump the data from either across boundaries in the process map when it accesses either device. Megaread on this 130 meg Maxtor is 13 seconds, 11 seconds from the ramdisk. But it sure make the compiles run smoother! Cheers Domm, Gene -*- 93592 8-SEP 00:37 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93580) From: DOMM To: WDTV5 Gene--- I've tried "dir /r0, "free /r0", "iniz /r0", format /r0"...nothing works... .just keep getting ERROR 221 (module not found). Again, the only thing I can see is that the "drvnam" is wrong on my "/r0". A "disasm" of my descriptor "/r0" shows the drvman= "RAMMER". (Can't seem to change this to RAM and have it work, I'll try again tho..) If I put back the "RAMMER" driver, everything works. > ...the download should have had the descriptor to fit... > ...Use the whole package,... As far as I can see, neither archive "Myram" or Myram8 has a "/r0" descriptor within it. Any thoughts? ---Dom -*- 93593 8-SEP 18:12 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93580) From: DOMM To: WDTV5 Gene--- Well... I've done a little more screwing around with the "/r0" descriptor and have been able to rename the "drvnam" to "Ram". There's a couple extra fcbs listed in the "disasm" but I got it loaded and it boots Ok. Seems to work alright so far (I haven't tried transfering sound files yet) except when I try to do a "dir /r0". This gives me a "253 - file busy" error. I can copy a text file to /r0 and copy it from /r0 to disk. Just can't seem to get a "dir". (When you don't know what you're doing, its kinda like doing the backstroke from the street to the garage. I get there but my arms hurt!) Any thoughts? ---Dom -*- 93594 8-SEP 18:18 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93592) From: RANDYKWILSON To: DOMM Dom, In this situation, OS9 determines the end of a string (Ram, Rammer) by the last cvharacter having the high bit set. So, to change the RAMMER to RAM, all you have to do is set the high bit on the first "M". The other three chars of rammer can stay put unmolested. Here's some instructions on how to do it with dEd directly on your boot file (preferably a backup :) ded os9boot l (link to a module command) r0 (module name in memory will be r0, not /r0) e (enter edit mode) (change from binary to ascii mode) (put cursor on first M of rammer) M (alt key sets high bit... on the cap M) (exit edit mode) w (write it to disk) y (yes, really write it to disk) v (verify, it will take a while, it will verify the whole boot) q (quit) Randy -*- 93596 8-SEP 21:54 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93594) From: DOMM To: RANDYKWILSON Randy--- Thanks for the info! Just downloaded dED with both sets of patches so I haven't had time to try anything let alone make the patches. I use Kwikzap for any byte changes but will check out dEd. (I like using kwikzap/kwikgen for this.) Yes, I do remember about setting the high bit and finally did set it correctly...just kept getting everthing else out of wack. I couldn't get it to verify at first. I have since tried setting only the first "m" as you suggested and get three extra fcbs ("mer"). The resulting /r0 reacts the same as the one I first set tho..must be learning something. I'll try the change with dED when I get it up and running but I think that I'll have the same problem I have now. I still get a 253-file busy error when I try a "dir /r0". ??? Anyway, why does the other "/r0-Rammer" crash when I try to copy a sound file to it? (seems to be plenty of space!) It would be nice to know for future referance. Any thoughts? ---Dom -*- 93599 9-SEP 01:38 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93592) From: WDTV5 To: DOMM Welp, at the moment, the coco is booting so I can check the archive I uploaded. Back in 2 mins. -*- 93600 9-SEP 01:44 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93593) From: WDTV5 To: DOMM Its booted, now to check, that was "myram68.lzh" on my drive, and you are unfortchunatly correct, theres no descriptor! So here is a replay of mine in the next msg., Sorry. It shouldn't make an difference tho, if you changed the name, as long as the names first character is in the same offset location in the descriptor. Back in a few, with in this case, a uuencoded descriptor you can capture ]right here. Gene -*- 93602 9-SEP 01:56 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93593) From: WDTV5 To: DOMM Hi again, Domm, here is a uuencoded descriptor for myram. I used the later version of uue to do it, so use uud to undo it. Then put it in the bootfile adjacent to RAM. This one is set for "sct=1000", a 1.04 something megabyte drive. If you only have 512k, then use the latest xmode as follows before putting it into the bootfile. Make sure the uud output is in the dir you are in, the "xmode -r0.dd sct=400" which will make it a 256k size, half of the 512k you prolly have. Anybody else that had that same problem, grab this too. table !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>? @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_ begin 644 r0.dd LA\T + A\8'( ", )K\ / 0 $ $ $4K!20L920 (Can even load sound files allright!) One thing though.. > ...xmode -r0.dd sct=400... Can't do this! The "/r0" is a RFB device..must use "dmode". Using xmode (which is what I tried using at first because it has a "ddr" -device driver name option), gives the error "not a SCF device". Dmode doesn't have a "ddr" option however. Anyhow..the uuencoded "/r0" you sent works fine and I never before "uudecoded" anything before, so I've gained knowledge on a few fronts. What I will do now, just to test myself, is to take my "/r0" descriptor and try to change that to match yours. Thanks again for all your help! ---Dom -*- 93607 10-SEP 02:20 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93604) From: WDTV5 To: DOMM xmode? I said that? It must have been REAL late! Sorry. DMode it is. Cheers Domm, Gene -*- 93615 10-SEP 14:06 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93607) From: DOMM To: WDTV5 Hey Gen ne!--- *NICE JOB!* Seems to work flawless so far! Thanks! ---Dom -*- 93618 10-SEP 17:24 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93602) From: REVKAK To: WDTV5 Hi Gene, I have been trying to decode your message containing "r0". I am using uud by BOISY. What I input and what I get is as follows: uud -d -t=/dd /r0/r0.file r0.file is a capture of your message Target dir = /dd **** STACK OVERFLOW **** error #207 I would appreciate any help on what I am doing wrong. The r0.file is on my current ramdrive r0. Thanks, Keith -*- 93636 11-SEP 23:36 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93615) From: WDTV5 To: DOMM You are welcome. Cheers, Gene -*- 93637 11-SEP 23:44 System Modules (6809) RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93618) From: WDTV5 To: REVKAK Gee Keith, I have no idea! I used "uue", and DOMM just grabbed it and got it decoded ok. One item I've noticed might be in your "settings" here on delphi. Files I've grabbed on the Amiga, null modemed to the coco suffer from linefeeds embedded in them. Seems like I've done a "tr 10 13 filename" on several occassions to fix that. For some reason, UUE doesn't like to find a $0A in the file its decodeeing. After doing that, you may have to edit it in your favorite editor to remove the extracarraige returns that gives, AND if there is a delphi "Press return for more" or similar in it, clip that stuffs out. And I just noticed you gave it a bunch of command line args. I usually just "uud filename", when its done, the original file will then be in the working directory. 'smatter of fact, I didn't even know UUE had any command line arguments! Prolly admitting my dumbness, but what can I say? Hope this helps Keith, Gene -*- End of Thread. -*- 93541 3-SEP 20:26 Tutorials & Education Coco history From: DOMM To: ALL I wonder if anyone knows what happened to the three programmers CoCo owners see on their screen? Who are these guys and where are they now? I was just looking over some Microware literature and was hoping to see any of their names somewhere but didn't see anything. Somebody somewhere must know. Seems like an interesting thing to know since they still appear every now and then. Any thoughts? ---Dom -*- 93550 4-SEP 00:31 Tutorials & Education RE: Coco history (Re: Msg 93541) From: MRUPGRADE To: DOMM Boisy could answer this better,, but to my best knowledge "two" are still with Microware,, thh other moved onward. Terry Simons UPGRADE Editor -*- 93558 4-SEP 21:10 Tutorials & Education RE: Coco history (Re: Msg 93550) From: DOMM To: MRUPGRADE Terry--- > ...two are still with Microware..the other moved onward. Yeah.. thats what I seem to remember. Also the guy who left then, (the one in the middle (???), went to Microsoft.(???) It would sure be fun to hunt them down and get updated info and possible an updated photo. Is the best way to contact Boisey through the Coco listserver? (I thought that Marty Goodman would know but he didn't.) ---Dom -*- 93559 4-SEP 21:34 Tutorials & Education RE: Coco history (Re: Msg 93558) From: MRUPGRADE To: DOMM Boisy DELPHI BOISY is on regularly. Was last on Sept 2. If he doesn't respond seeing these messages,, just leave thh question direct. Terry Simons UPGRADE Editor -*- 93560 4-SEP 22:09 Tutorials & Education RE: Coco history (Re: Msg 93559) From: DOMM To: MRUPGRADE Terry- Thanks- it dawned on me after I sent the last message that he could be reached through Delphi. ---Dom -*- End of Thread. -*- 93542 3-SEP 21:42 General Information Colored Memory? From: THETAURUS To: ALL A recent post mentioning colored memory got me curious. Just what exactly is it? I've heard the term before, but never did get what it is. >Chris< -*- 93548 3-SEP 23:48 General Information RE: Colored Memory? (Re: Msg 93542) From: RANDYKWILSON To: THETAURUS Chris, Colored memory is a chunk of RAM that has a supposed dedicated usage. Being labeled as such, the OS will not allocate it except for it's purpose unless there isn't any other free RAM available. Colored memory is not a case of "don't use this", it's "don't use this unless you have no other choice". In the case of MM/1s, where you most likely have seen the reference, the video controller can only access the one meg of RAM on the main board. So, in 3, 9, and 11 meg machines, this one meg bank is marked as colored memory belonging to the video. OSK, when loading programs and allocating data space, will not use this memory until all the other RAM blocks are full. As a contrast, compare this to a clone machine with 8 megs of ram, plus one meg on the video card. When that eight megs is full, you're done. With OSK and colored memory, when the eight megs is gone, the system will go after any spare ram in the video memory. Randy -*- 93582 7-SEP 22:18 General Information RE: Colored Memory? (Re: Msg 93548) From: WDTV5 To: RANDYKWILSON Nice explanation Randy, thanks. Cheers, Gene -*- 93623 10-SEP 20:58 General Information RE: Colored Memory? (Re: Msg 93548) From: THETAURUS To: RANDYKWILSON >>Colored memory is a chunk of RAM that has a supposed dedicated usage.<< Thanks Randy, now it makes sense. There was an old OS-9 Underground article on applications using that, so maybe I'll go back and read it since now I have a basic idea of what they are talking about :-) See Ya >Chris< -*- End of Thread. -*- 93544 3-SEP 21:42 Users Group Sourcebook: BBS Form From: THETAURUS To: ALL The latest edition of the MOTD saw the 'debut' of the BBS User's form for the Sourcebook. I will include the form in this message. If you run a bulletin board system or know enough about a system that you use, please fill this out and return it to the the address 'Thetaurus@Delphi.com' or to simply 'Thetaurus' if you are sending directly from Delphi. Keep in mind, you do NOT need to be a member of the UG to have your BBS added to the sourcebook! The OS-9 User's Group Sourcebook Bulletin Board System Entry Form BBS Name _______________________________________________________________ Sysop ______________________________________________________________ Phone Number: (______) ______-_________ City:__________________________ State:______ Country Code:_______ 7/E/1 or 8/N/1?(circle one) Lowest Baud Rate Supported ____________ Highest Baud Rate Supported ____________ Does this BBS have a Fido-Net Connection? ______ Does it have an Internet Connection? ______ Supports(check all the apply): OS-9 Level I & II ____ OS-9 68000 ____ OS-9000 ____ Please feel free to add any addition comments and information on the back of this form. The more we know about your BBS, the better! Chris Perrault OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook Coordinator -*- 93545 3-SEP 21:42 Users Group Sourcebook:Industrial User Form From: THETAURUS To: ALL If you are a company that uses the Industrial version of OS-9 please fill out and return the following Industrial User Form that will be added to The OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook. Keep in mind, that you do NOT have to be a member of the UG in order to be added to the sourcebook. There has been some confusion regarding that recently, so I just wanted to clear it up. The OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook Industrial User Entry Form --------------------------------- Company Name _____________________________________________________________ Street ___________________________ City __________________ State _________ Zip Code ___________ Country _____________ Telephone(w/area code) __________________ Email _________________________________________________ Please give a description what your company specialises in. ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ ...and briefly summarise the OS-9 system(s) used by your company? ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ Finally, please give a brief description of HOW OS-9 is used within your workplace. ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________________________ Chris Perrault OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook Coordinator -*- 93547 3-SEP 22:53 General Information OS-9 Late Night Reminder From: THETAURUS To: ALL OK everyone, don't forget(I'm posting this later than I wanted to) that tomorrow September 4th at 10:00 pm Eastern time, Mike Rowen, the OS-9 Users' Group Vice President of 6809 will be returning as special guest host. If you are a UG member or interested OS-9 level I or II user, you will want to attend this conference. It will be a continuation of his first conference, for those who were on hand the last time. Also coming up.... September 11, 1995 10:00 PM Open Forum September 18, 1995 10:00 PM See You in Atlanta! Newton White, from the Atlanta Computer Society will be here to preview the upcoming Atlanta CocoFest(9/30,10/31). If you want to know who will be there, how you can get there, and what it's like to be at an Atlanta Cocofest, this is the place to be. If you haven't registered to attend, do so now!! September 25, 1995 10:00 PM Sculptor W/KD Consulting Group Kurt Johnson, President of _KD Consulting Group_ will be here to answer your questions about Sculptor, the highly touted OS-9 database that is used all over! Sculptor has been THE database for OS-9 based systems for years now, and it is flexible enough to be used for many different applications. Kurt will discuss some of the possibilities as well as some of the places and companies that currently use Sculptor, such as NASA. Until recently when KD Associates began running ads in the MOTD, Sculptor was hard to find and many considered it an abandoned work. Now the word is out. Sculptor is back and supported 100%, and we will learn more about it right here, on OS-9 Late Night! -*- 93556 4-SEP 17:52 General Information coco3 for sale From: SYSWOP To: ALL I finally decided to do it. I am selling off my Coco3 and the whole pile of hardware. included is : 4 - 512k coco3 1 - disto 4 in 1 controller 2 - RS 501 floppy controllers 1 - RS 500 Floppy controller 2 - RS rs232 packs 1 - RS multipack w/upgrade 1 - CM8 monitor 1 - B&B hard drive interface w/mfm card 1 - seagate 40 meg drive 1 - seagate 60 meg drive 1 - teac 360k flopy 1 - 3.5" floppy drive power supply to drive both floppy drives 1 - composite monitor NitrOs9 w/docs 1 - RS coco1 floppy controller modified to run hi density ( not working ) misc rom packs os9 level ii with books misc other hardware and hard cards + several other hard drives Tons of software and information that I have collected in the pst 8 years. since part of the above does me no good, I would prefer to sell it all at one time. But since we all know Coco users dont usually have a lot of money, I will consider selling it in groups, NOT one piece at a time. Anyone interested in making me a resonable offer can leave a message here. OR you can call me Voice between 10am an 6pm monday thru friday at 1-417-862-0837 ask for Terry. -*- 93574 6-SEP 15:05 General Information dmode output From: MIKE_GUZZI To: MITHELEN i cannot get a dmode output right now, the emulator does not like windoze. basically i set the dmode params to increase the cylinders ONLY, i set aside 5 megs for the emulator, but due to a bug in the emulator, a 9 meg file was created. this has been fixed from what I hear. I asked for the new version. now all i hope is he adds comm support, then it will be complete! Mike -*- 93590 7-SEP 22:51 General Information Cancelling TELENUT account From: DIGIGRADE To: ALL Hi there everyone, I just want you to know that I am canceling my TELENUT account and you should send me mail at DIGIGRADE from now on. _____________________________________________________________________________ |Dave Pellerito - | Posted using InfoXpress | |Digigrade Productions - Digital Services | with an MM/1 running OSK | |---------------------------------------------------------------------------| | *********** Compact discs, the greatest idea since television *********** | |___________________________________________________________________________| -*- 93624 10-SEP 20:58 General Information Late Night Reminder From: THETAURUS To: ALL Don't forget that tomorrow night, Monday September 11, at 10:00 pm Eastern time, we will be having our weekly OS-9 Late Night conference. This week will be an Open Forum, so everything is up for discussion, and nothing is sacred. :-) Also don't forget to check up on the conference banner for a list of upcoming Conferences as we have several big ones in the coming weeks! Next week will be the Atlanta Fest conference and the one following will be the Sculptor conference! See Ya Chris Perrault OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook Coordinator -*- 93642 12-SEP 21:04 Programmers Den Language From: MICHAELJN To: ALL Can anyone tell me (or try a good guess) what Language was used the most for theTandy Color Computer 3 under OS9? My friend would like to know because he stillshas interest in programming. -*- 93644 12-SEP 21:39 Programmers Den RE: Language (Re: Msg 93642) From: ADITNAVEL To: MICHAELJN I would wager that for the Coco3 under OS9 it would probably be: #1 'C' or Basic09 #2 Assembler #3 Pascal #4 Forth (Very rare) -*- 93649 15-SEP 02:09 Programmers Den RE: Language (Re: Msg 93644) From: MICHAELJN To: ADITNAVEL Thanks alot! We just might be programming down the road and hope to keep the Coco alive. -*- 93652 15-SEP 22:07 Programmers Den RE: Language (Re: Msg 93642) From: WDTV5 To: MICHAELJN (NR) Most of it has been done in asm for the utils. Major proggies tended to be done in C cause it takes care of the housekeeping a LOT better than we do if we don't keep a memory map on the wall, and a stack image right in our source to keep track of what var is where! At least thats my technic when running a new proggy in asm. For me at least, keeping track of the stack can be/is a big memory (mine) prob. Thats my $.02 worth. Cheers, Gene -*- 93653 15-SEP 22:16 Programmers Den RE: Language (Re: Msg 93652) From: WDTV5 To: WDTV5 Yeah, but I forgot about B09. I haven't attempted to do anything for publication in Basic09 since MicroWare changed their mind long about level 2 time and decided we CAN'T furnish the RunB runtime translator WITH our programs without making previous arrangments to license it as such. IMHO, a damned good way to kill a good language! Which it is, anbd I have some nice stuff I've done in Basic09. But as an sometimes author here, I will respect MicroWares wishes and therefore have not uploaded stuffs for Basic09 unless, and I have considered it, I just uploaded the source text only. That shouldn't be copyrighted by anyone but the author. How about it out there, would some of you like to see a version of Robert Moores "MaxIc" with a few more bells and whistles, and which ACTUALLY works? Cheers, Gene -*- 93654 15-SEP 23:27 Programmers Den RE: Language (Re: Msg 93653) From: REVKAK To: WDTV5 (NR) MaxIc? Sure! what is it? Thanks, Keith -*- 93657 16-SEP 01:24 Programmers Den RE: Language (Re: Msg 93653) From: DBREEDING To: WDTV5 (NR) > Yeah, but I forgot about B09. I haven't attempted to do anything for > publication > in Basic09 since MicroWare changed their mind long about level 2 time and > decided we CAN'T furnish the RunB runtime translator WITH our programs > without making previous arrangments to license it as such. Actually, would this be a problem with CoCo Level-2-specific programs? Since Basic09 was included with the package, anyone who has a legal copy of Level 2 should certainly have RUNB already? I'm assuming that packed code is legal, as I have seen this in circulation. > I have considered > it, I just uploaded the source text only. That shouldn't be copyrighted > by anyone but the author. It would seem that this would be no better. It would appear that anyone who would have Basic09 would have "runb". I don't suppose the packed code is restricted from circulation, is it? I know I have seen quite a bit of packed code floating around. All that is restricted is "runb", isn't it? -- David Breeding -- CompuServe : 72330,2051 Delphi : DBREEDING *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0 *** -*- 93659 16-SEP 12:23 Programmers Den RE: Language (Re: Msg 93653) From: JOHNBAER To: WDTV5 (NR) Hello Gene, > ... How about it out there, would some of you like to see a version > of Robert Moores "MaxIc" ... What the heck, put it up. Don't know what it is but I'll look at it. John -*- End of Thread. -*- 93645 13-SEP 04:57 Music & Sound Maxsound From: DGANTZ To: ALL I've already posted a similar message in the CoCo Sig but was hopeing that there might be some experienced OS9'ers out there that could help me with a MaxSound problem (MaxSound of course is a RSDos program). I've been playing with several audio digitizing programs to find one that would be suitable to construct a number of greetings for my answering machine. MaxSound seems to be the one because of its sequencer. However, I'm having trouble with the sequencer. Primarily because I bought my MaxSound used and there now appears to be a missing disk(s). The docs refer to a (M)axsound saved file called "DEMO2" and I received no such files with the other original disk, hardware, and docs. My questions are: Can someone xfer said files to OS9, lha them, uue them, and mail them to me? If not, does someone have a handle on the sequencer functions and some time to spare to educate me? Any help would be most appreciated. Thanx in advance Dave DGANTZ DGANTZ@Delphi.com -*- 93648 13-SEP 23:19 General Information termcap From: TMF To: ALL I need help with Termcap for my SYSTEM IV. I find that there are some really funky things that happen when I use VED or DDX or TTERM. When I am using VED not under GWINDOWS I have to use abm85h termcap or I get some really strange code before and after each letter or word . If I use VT100 or VGA I get either the file starting near the bottom of the screen or to have funny codes at the beginning and end of each word. I need to use vga for tterm due to the lack of complete entry. To use DDX I have to use VGA , but then I get the same thing for data entry as when I use VED. PS most of these also happen with umacs. ~ I sent a copy of my termcap to Pagan and he sent me a copy of P1\vga , but to no avail. Help is greatly appreciated. BTW DDX don't work under GWINDOWS. Somewhere there is happiness somewhere there is sunshine , but not here in Denver. For the mighty termcap has struck out.~ Tom Farrow= -*- 93655 16-SEP 00:41 OSK Applications i2c bus From: ADITNAVEL To: ALL I was wondering if anyone has heard anything about i2c drivers for the MM/1 or the SCC68070. I was told that the drivers were started at some point, but were never finished. If anyone could shed some light on this I would appreciate it. I already have a call in to MW and they're looking to see what they have, but we all know that is big $$$. Any help would be appreciated! -*- 93658 16-SEP 11:23 General Information USING 80tr.DRIVES From: RONMAGOO To: ALL I have been a cocoNut since 1989, and although I have been picking up OS-9 software at fest for several years, I am a slow learner. I just recently started getting serious about OS-9. I discovered that to do much, I would need at least a pair of 80 track drives, which I recently acquired. The first thing I discovered is, they won't read my regular disk! That the 80 tracks will also format 35 & 40 tracks, and that OS-9 will read them, but not backup, dsave, or otherwise transfer to them from regular Coco disk. I get 243, 244, & 247 errors. I tried creating all kinds of boot cofigurations on both sets of disk drives to no avail. Finally, I put one of each drive in the same case. That worked! I can backup, dsave etc. in 35, 40, & 80 track and create disk that will work with the 80 track drives. This still leaves several problems; 1. Tandy didn't provide /d0 80 track drivers or an 80 track default descriptor. So how can one boot an 80 track drive from basic ?? 2. If you have to mix 40tr.& 80tr. in the same case you have no way to use a two drive system with either one, because I could find no way to make all 4 work together. 3. The only solution I could come up with was to make a copy of anything you might possibly want to use on the 80 track system on a mixed set of drives before putting them back as matched sets. The only problem with this is that you either have to have a 3rd 40tr.,80tr.& power case to make transfers, or keep opening cases and swithing drives !! Even with that solution, you still don't have 80 track default to boot from basic with. Surely there must be a better way to work all this out. I would appreciate any help all you Ole "OS-9 Hackers" could give this lost RS-DOS soul to bring me up to full OS-9 speed.!! -= RON =- -*- FORUM>Reply, Add, Read, "?" or Exit> ^C Highest message read: 93659. OS9 Online Menu: Announcements Set Preferences Classifieds Usenet Discussion Groups Conference Topic Descriptions Databases (Files) Voting Booth Entry Log Who's Here Forum (Messages) Workspace Internet Gopher Help MAIL (Electronic) Exit Member Directory Portal to Coco Sig Questions & Feedback OS9>What do you want to do? 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