#: 19328 S1/General Interest 15-Nov-93 03:59:18 Sb: #19308-ddx Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: tom farrow 72701,543 (X) Tom, Stephen Carville, author of DataDex isn't on CIS. You can reach at DELPHI as PAGAN. You might want to send him a message outlining your problem. He has a SYSTEM IV, too. Ed #: 19329 S1/General Interest 15-Nov-93 13:49:55 Sb: #OS9 for the Amiga A500 Fm: Philip Lee 70630,2542 To: ALL I still run OS9 on Tandy CoCo sometimes but would like to run OS9 on my Amiga A500 which has 2.5 Mb of RAM and A hard disk. Obviously this would be faster than in the past. Does anyone know if it availlable for the above machine? Thanks. There is 1 Reply. #: 19330 S1/General Interest 15-Nov-93 19:02:05 Sb: #19329-#OS9 for the Amiga A500 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Philip Lee 70630,2542 (X) I pulled this down from the CoCo List in September. It has some interesting comments on OS9 for the Amiga. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi All, I received the following summary from Digby Tarvin, the person who ported OS9 to the Amiga. ---- Summary follows -- Firstly, let me quickly review the products available from Microware. The initial 6809 product, which was available as level I or II (the latter supporting an expanded memory model) has been discontinued. Its successor, OS-9/68000, is available as either "Industrial" or "Professional". Industrial OS-9 is Kernel and serial I/O only, and is intended for imbedded systems. Professional is intended as a multi user development system including everything in industrial, plus file system and tape support, a full range of utilities and the Microware C compiler. An earlier "Personal" OS-9 package intended for hobyists has unfortunately been discontinued. A variation on the above packages is required for use with 68020 or better processors. This version is called OS-9/68020 and comes with a different kernel and enhanced C compiler to allow access to the more powerful instruction set. The correct kernel must be used for the host CPU, but there is no difference for application software. The OS-9/68020 versions cost about 50\% more than their 68000 counterparts. Finally, Microware have released a kernel which has been re-coded in C, called OS-9000. The main effect this has is to allow non Motorolla systems to be supported. It does, however, require a more powerfull CPU. For example a minimum 68020 for Motorolla or 386 for Intel platforms. The Microware product that we have licenced is Professional OS-9\/68000 Version 2\.4. We are attempting to keep the price at US\$600.00 in line with Microwares price for the equivalent Atari product. Unfortunately, even though this is quite a bit below the the recommended retail price, it is expensive for hobyist use. An OS-9/68020 version of our port has been tested on an A3000, but we are waiting for some definite interest before comitting the money for a licence. Consequently, I cannot quote an exact price at this stage. We have not licensed the OS-9000 product yet as it could only be used on a small subset of Amiga machines (those with 68020 or better processors), and the 68000 product is still better supported (new products are usually available for OS-9/68000 before OS-9000). It is also quite a bit more expensive, so it will probably wait till there is some evidence of demand. We use the system in house on A1000, A2000 and A3000. It has also been used at Microware on A500s. It is a bit difficult to summarise the technical details in a couple of pages, but I would be happy to answer any specific questions you may have about the implementation or support for specific disk controllers and other hardware. As a very brief outline, the system takes over the Amiga completely so it retains its realtime qualities and performs like a very standard OS-9 environment. It requires no rom replacement or other hardware modification, so switching between OS-9 and Amigados (or any other operating system) requires only a re-boot. The Amiga display is supported as a colour text terminal with customizable emulation and font module support. It also supports multiple virtual screens much like that provided by Amiga Unix. Several graphical environments are available for OS-9, including Rave, X11, gwindows and MGR. However these are not currently supported for the Amiga display. We are looking at these but the main problem is the substantial price increase that would result and of course deciding on the most appropriate choice. Rave would allow CDI application compatibility which may be of interest to hobbyists and developers, X11 of course provides increased UNIX workstation compatibility, and gwindows/MGR a Mac style operating environment. A company in Switzerland have volunteered to undertake a port of MGR which I will be very interested to see. To summarise some answers to some common questions: Operating System Vers: Professional OS-9/68000 V2.4 Booting: Can boot from any floppy or hard disk OS9 Kickstart may be used on A1000 to gain an extra 256K of write-protectable ram. Supported by AmigaDOS Terminals: VT100 emulation on amiga display Full support for amiga serial port Driver for ASGD serial card available Commodore A2232 driver under development Disks: Internal floppy drive supported Primary format is amiga standard encoding OS-9 Universal format supported for compatibility Driver for A2090 HD available Driver for A2091/A3000/A590 HD available soon (new SCSI driver technology will support SCSI tape disk etc) Amiga Utilities: AmigaDOS file system access utility Convert amiga font files to OS9 font modules SSM: SSM may be used when hardware supports it. Price: US$600.00 We are currenty updating our licence to include the new Microware 'Ultra C' Ansi C compiler technology. This will add about US$150.00 to the price of a license. The compiler if purchased separately from Microware will be priced at US$1,300. This would seem like a good buy for professional users, but does increase the entry cost for hobyists. I would be interested in any thoughts you may have on this. Thank you again for your enquiry. I hope this information is of some assistance. Digby Tarvin Tesseract Pty Ltd 53 George St. REDFERN. NSW. 2016 Australia FAX: +61 2 698 8881 digbyt@extro.ucc.su.oz.au There is 1 Reply. #: 19333 S1/General Interest 16-Nov-93 12:21:33 Sb: #19330-OS9 for the Amiga A500 Fm: Philip Lee 70630,2542 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Thanks Steve. Phil. #: 19331 S1/General Interest 15-Nov-93 19:51:39 Sb: #hard drive Fm: keith bauer 71102,317 To: ALL Well I lost my hard drive on my MM/1. It was a seagate ST157N. I did have a backup from about 2 weeks ago (thanks Mark for HDBackup). I have a new HD coming in, it is a Maxtor 7213SR 213meg unit. Is there anything I need to know about installing it? Like jumper settings or such. I guess I will need to change my maxcount to around 32000 since this one will be alot faster than my old one. Thanks Keith There are 3 Replies. #: 19332 S1/General Interest 16-Nov-93 11:40:03 Sb: #19331-hard drive Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: keith bauer 71102,317 (X) > Well I lost my hard drive on my MM/1. It was a seagate ST157N. I did have a > backup from about 2 weeks ago (thanks Mark for HDBackup). I have a new HD > coming in, it is a Maxtor 7213SR 213meg unit. Is there anything I need to > know about installing it? Like jumper settings or such. I guess I will > need to change my maxcount to around 32000 since this one will be alot > faster than my old one. Make certain you match the SCSI ID. I think Maxtor ships drives set to something other than what you'd expect. Mark may be able to help with the settings. I've got my maxcount set to 2048 to help eliminate the mouse locking problem. You may want to experiment with what's best for you. Also, if the Seagate is the terminated device now, you'll want to make sure the Maxtor is as well when you complete the installation. *- Steve -* #: 19334 S1/General Interest 16-Nov-93 18:11:25 Sb: #19331-hard drive Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: keith bauer 71102,317 (X) I've got the same drive...all you need to do is set the SCSI ID # via the jumpers. If it a 2nd drive you need to pull the resistor packs too. BTW, I have my maxcount set to 16384; and I've heard others with even smaller values. Apparently if you get it small enuf the mouse lock-up problems go away. #: 19335 S1/General Interest 16-Nov-93 18:26:48 Sb: #19331-#hard drive Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 To: keith bauer 71102,317 (X) > Well I lost my hard drive on my MM/1. It was a seagate ST157N. I did have a > backup from about 2 weeks ago (thanks Mark for HDBackup). I have a new HD > coming in, it is a Maxtor 7213SR 213meg unit. Is there anything I need to > know about installing it? Like jumper settings or such. I guess I will > need to change my maxcount to around 32000 since this one will be alot > faster than my old one. Keith, Sorry to hear about your hard drive passing away. But I'm glad to hear you have chosen an excellent replacement. Life goes on!! I have TWO 7213S Maxtors, dunno what the SR is, but I have been utterly satisfied with mine. I posted a "war story" file to the BITNET list which described my experiance of replacing my Seagate ST1096N with my first Maxtor 7213S. I'll try to dig up a copy and mail it to you. In case it doesn't mention, my /h0 dmode shows maxcount at 65535. ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions ColorSystems "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!" There is 1 Reply. #: 19336 S1/General Interest 17-Nov-93 11:20:32 Sb: #19335-#hard drive Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X) > Maxtor 7213S. I'll try to dig up a copy and mail it to you. In case it > doesn't mention, my /h0 dmode shows maxcount at 65535. > That's the default value, Zack. After talking Kevin P., I've found that reducing the value to 2048 has all but eliminated my mouse lock up problem. What few I have left are solved by running a little script I put together with the help of Mike Haaland: load -d /dd/bootmods/update/scf/mods/t2 xmode /t2 baud=1200 iniz /t2 *- Steve -* There is 1 Reply. #: 19340 S1/General Interest 17-Nov-93 19:32:32 Sb: #19336-#hard drive Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) > load -d /dd/bootmods/update/scf/mods/t2 > xmode /t2 baud=1200 > iniz /t2 Hmmm, ... why couldn't you just: $ cd /dd/bootmods/update/scf/mods $ xmode /t2 baud=1200 $ save t2 -f=t2.1200 $ fixmod -u t2.1200 $ chd $ $ os9gen -eb=200 /d0 -z= Can't remember if the fixmod is required, but it wouldn't hoit!! I have a /t0 device modified in this very manner to 2400 baud. You may still need to do the iniz /t2 in your startup. ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions ColorSystems "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!" There is 1 Reply. #: 19342 S1/General Interest 18-Nov-93 12:12:49 Sb: #19340-hard drive Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X) > Hmmm, ... why couldn't you just: > > $ cd /dd/bootmods/update/scf/mods > $ xmode /t2 baud=1200 > $ save t2 -f=t2.1200 > $ fixmod -u t2.1200 > $ chd > $ > $ os9gen -eb=200 /d0 -z= > > Can't remember if the fixmod is required, but it wouldn't hoit!! I have > a /t0 device modified in this very manner to 2400 baud. You may still > need to do the iniz /t2 in your startup. > Well ... originally, one was not supposed to have both the mouse stuff and /t2 both in the boot at the same time. I suppose this has changed somewhere along the line. I'm not certain it's having /t2 in memory that fixes the mouse lockups or the fact that it's iniz'd that clears the problem. *- Steve -* #: 19339 S1/General Interest 17-Nov-93 18:20:12 Sb: #Repacking MM/1 question Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 To: all I have a new PC case on order in which I plan to repack my MM/1a. I plan to provide stereo input and output jacks which will be wired to the MM/1's analog sound port. Question is, what types of connectors would you'all recommend? What kind of connectors are on the back of your standard Sound Blaster type of card? ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions ColorSystems "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!" There is 1 Reply. #: 19378 S1/General Interest 22-Nov-93 20:47:22 Sb: #19339-Repacking MM/1 question Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X) Don't know if this helps in your design, but I just bought a pair of "computer speakers". They come with a mini-phone plug (same as a walkman headphone jack). Might mean that a mini-plug might be best. Now I have to make a little adaptor cable for mine since it is set up for phono-plugs. Oh well. #: 19345 S1/General Interest 18-Nov-93 21:34:41 Sb: #SCSI Drives. Fm: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 To: all Can someone suppy me with model numbers and brand names for SCSI hard drives that have the controllers as part of the drive (instead of a seperate controller)? I plan on getting a Ken-Ton SCSI interface and installing the hard drive in a tower case, so an embedded controller would be much better. Thanks. There is 1 Reply. #: 19347 S1/General Interest 18-Nov-93 22:41:23 Sb: #19345-#SCSI Drives. Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 To: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 (X) I believe that any of the Seagate N series, such as ST-138N should work for you. With all best wishes, Brother Jeremy, CSJW There is 1 Reply. #: 19349 S1/General Interest 19-Nov-93 06:03:22 Sb: #19347-#SCSI Drives. Fm: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 To: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 (X) Do you know if any of the Maxtor drives have embedded SCSI controllers? The reason being that Maxtor drives are less expensive, yet still have a good track record. Thanks. There are 2 Replies. #: 19359 S1/General Interest 20-Nov-93 09:17:39 Sb: #19349-SCSI Drives. Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 (X) Ken, Its my understanding that almost all, if not all, SCSI drives now have embedded controllers. -Bill- #: 19360 S1/General Interest 20-Nov-93 10:23:06 Sb: #19349-#SCSI Drives. Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 To: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 (X) > Do you know if any of the Maxtor drives have embedded SCSI controllers? > The reason being that Maxtor drives are less expensive, yet still have a > good track record. Thanks. I have two Maxtor 7213S 203Mb hard drives on my MM/1. Note the S suffix on the model number. That means it is a SCSI drive and not an IDE drive. The SCSI version of the 7213 costs anywhere from $70 to $100 more than then IDE version. Oh, and btw, I couldn't be more happier with the Maxtors. No problems whatsoever with either of them. And man are they small!! ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions ColorSystems "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!" There is 1 Reply. #: 19364 S1/General Interest 21-Nov-93 06:42:59 Sb: #19360-#SCSI Drives. Fm: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X) That's great. I'm thinking of getting the 200S model (200 megs). I was checking PC Catalog here on CIS (go PCA). They have that model listed at $189 through a company called CorpSys Center. Not a bad price. One thing, what country makes the Maxtor drive (Japan?). I need to know so that I can ask Canada Customs what I'm looking at for duty. Thanks. There are 2 Replies. #: 19365 S1/General Interest 21-Nov-93 10:37:50 Sb: #19364-#SCSI Drives. Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 To: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 (X) According to the sticker on top of the drive, it is assembled in Singapore. ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions ColorSystems "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!" There are 2 Replies. #: 19373 S1/General Interest 22-Nov-93 03:28:26 Sb: #19365-SCSI Drives. Fm: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X) Thanks for the country information. #: 19379 S1/General Interest 23-Nov-93 06:08:52 Sb: #19365-SCSI Drives. Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 Zack, > According to the sticker on top of the drive, it is assembled in > Singapore. And if you look on the front of the drive, there is a bar code there with some coloring on it. That was made by the company I work for (and the one Steve USED to work for). /************* /\/\ark ************/ (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01) #: 19367 S1/General Interest 21-Nov-93 17:31:58 Sb: #19364-SCSI Drives. Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 (X) > That's great. I'm thinking of getting the 200S model (200 megs). I was > checking PC Catalog here on CIS (go PCA). They have that model listed at > $189 through a company called CorpSys Center. Not a bad price. One > thing, what country makes the Maxtor drive (Japan?). I need to know so > that I can ask Canada Customs what I'm looking at for duty. Thanks. Maxtor has facilities in Colorodo, California and Singapore. All the R&D and first production runs are done in the States. Then the line is moved to the Pacific Rim for mass manufacturing. The company that Mark Griffith works for (and the one I used to work for) is responsible for those bar code labels on the drives. *- Steve -* #: 19348 S1/General Interest 19-Nov-93 04:29:39 Sb: #hard drive help Fm: keith bauer 71102,317 To: all I would like to thank all those that gave me hints & tips about installing my new Maxtor hard drive. With the help of Gene, Ken, Steve, Bob, and Zack I was able to install and start the formatting on my lunch hour. It is now up and running and works great! Once again thanks ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith Bauer CIS :71102,317 Delphi :keithbauer Internet:keithbauer@delphi.com Via InfoXpress/OSK ver 1.01 How 'bout them Cowboys! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is 1 Reply. #: 19351 S1/General Interest 19-Nov-93 10:44:11 Sb: #19348-hard drive help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: keith bauer 71102,317 (X) Glad you're up and running again. Keith! *- Steve -* #: 19366 S1/General Interest 21-Nov-93 13:23:36 Sb: #I'm back again Fm: Michele Dalene 72652,2765 To: all HI! Again! I changed my mind and reinstated my CIS account again. Of course due to the expense of this system, I cannot be on every day but I will be around If you know me from Delphi (MDALENE@DELPHI.COM) then you know who I am :0 Anyhow I am back on the CIS system. Michele Dalene There is 1 Reply. #: 19374 S1/General Interest 22-Nov-93 05:34:35 Sb: #19366-I'm back again Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Michele Dalene 72652,2765 Nice to have you back! *- Steve -* #: 19368 S1/General Interest 21-Nov-93 19:35:00 Sb: ICS Conferences Fm: Mark A. Wells 71722,1773 To: All CALL FOR PARTICIPATION - INDUSTRIAL COMPUTING SOCIETY CONFERENCES The Industrial Computing Society, a not-for profit society dedicated to the advancement of industrial applications of computers, seeks your participation in the following upcoming conferences: ----------------------- Philadelphia May 3-5, 1994 ------------------------ Anaheim, California October 24-27, 1994 ------------------------ Papers presented in Philadelphia are also eligible for presentation in Anaheim. These conferences are held in cooperation with the Instrument Society of America (ISA). Over 25,000 attendees are expected in Philadelphia, with over 435,000 square feet of exhibit space. Technical papers have currently been received for topics such as: - Manufacturing Execution - Plant Operations - Application Development - Control Architectures - Emerging Technologies - Production Systems Modeling - Simulation Some of the types of presentations include: - Paper Presentation (must be reviewed and ready by Jan. 15, 1994) - Plenary Session - Panel - Tutorials or Clinics - Workshop - Technology Briefings - Roundtable - Commercial Seminars You can participate as a: - Session Developer - Reviewer - Author - Exhibitor If you would like to be involved or require more information, contact: Mark Wells Industrial Computing Society Conferences and Exhibits Chairman 25 Wood Street, Suite 102 Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4Y 2P9 Phone: (416) 595-0590 Fax: (416) 595-0879 Internet: ics.msystems@control.com Compuserve: 71722,1773 #: 19375 S1/General Interest 22-Nov-93 12:08:24 Sb: Database on CDi (OS9) Fm: anne van der ploeg 100121,3031 To: All I need to create a database on CDi. I heard about Sculptor and a database MicroWare developed, which are suitable for CDi. Is anyone familiair with onbe of these products and can you telle me where I can contact MicroWare and the makers of Sculptor? Thanks, Anne #: 19343 S3/Languages 18-Nov-93 20:32:17 Sb: #Ultra ???? C Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: ucc gurus It's been a tough couple days. My project is out of ram and rom space, but I figure a better compiler than v3.2 will bail me out. That will let me use 'const' to keep the menu trees from getting copied from rom to ram, and better code generation will free up some rom space. Easy, huh? Only problem is, gcc (while it does generate slightly better code) still puts a vsect around the menu trees and references them off a6, even when they are made const. About this time, the new Ultra C arrived. I got it loaded and patched cc to ucc and make to umake so it wouldn't collide with the other guys doing development. Surely ucc will fix me up. Nope, ucc generates considerably larger executables. Huh??? Yep, about 15% bigger. The two I was working with are about 60K and 80K, so they are mostly mine, but the manual (I had *plenty* of time to read the manuals - ucc is *slow*) says this can happen with the ansi libraries, so I tweak the makefile again and use -bc for backwards compatibility. Still bigger. But I found that I should use -t=0 to force optimizaton for minimal space, so torch the .r files and try again. Still bigger. The best I could do was 5% bigger. (I almost couldn't compile a couple files with big state machine switch tables - took 1.8M of free memory after compiler et al were loaded). So here is the question for you ucc experts: what is the secret? What am I doing wrong? Carl There are 3 Replies. #: 19350 S3/Languages 19-Nov-93 10:17:17 Sb: #19343-#Ultra ???? C Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Carl - Which UCC are you using? Allegedly, the 1.1 (a maint release) is supposed to enhance both compile speed and optimization. Ours has yet to arrive, allegedly being shipped with our OS9 3.0... Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 19352 S3/Languages 19-Nov-93 19:17:43 Sb: #19350-#Ultra ???? C Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Using 1.1, the new latest and greatest. There is 1 Reply. #: 19369 S3/Languages 21-Nov-93 21:10:58 Sb: #19352-#Ultra ???? C Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Ugh... that's discouraging. Guess that we will _stay_ with the low tech but well known V1.4 compiler then. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 19371 S3/Languages 21-Nov-93 22:16:08 Sb: #19369-Ultra ???? C Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Or get gcc if you want ANSI. It uses C3.2 libs and does generate a bit better code. #: 19353 S3/Languages 19-Nov-93 20:04:43 Sb: #19343-#Ultra ???? C Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) whew!, I thought it was just me!! I was begining to think I'm just a bad 'C' programmer, well maybe i'm still that!. Anyway YES, I DO get CONSIDERABLY BIGGER code and a dead-snail's paced compile time and forget about using /r0 for temp files to increase compile time! I downloaded a source on this forum called 'sc1.c' - scientific calculator which takes 3 minutes to compile on c 3.2 but takes 3 minutes plus a long shower (I could not wait any longer - was already late for work) for it to tell me that I had ran out of memory - this is an 80 something 'K' source code. After foregoing '/r0' temp files and unlinking just about every- thing in memory I finally got it to compile - lets say around 10 minutes or so and about a 15 percent increase in code size. I got so discouraged that I reinstalled c v3.2. Thank God for the REINSTALL_OLD script included with Ultra 'C'. I am going to go pick uucc 1.1 next week and I will see if it improves comp time/code size. There are 3 Replies. #: 19354 S3/Languages 19-Nov-93 20:11:21 Sb: #19353-#Ultra ???? C Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) Don't count on it - I'm talking about 1.1 here. I couldn't use 1.0 because it had to replace v3.2, but ucc1.1 will co-reside (anyone remember cores from Mot?) with v3.2. There is 1 Reply. #: 19357 S3/Languages 20-Nov-93 00:40:11 Sb: #19354-#Ultra ???? C Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X) Oh well, I setting here listening to by new toy - not a computer, but DMX - Digital Music Express. Thirty channels of digital music (no commericals or DJs) ranging from AC to Salsa -what ever that is! Back to OS9 I did try some of the 'time-space knobs', I forgot thr option flags, described in the Manual but did not find any appreciable code size difference. In fact your code can actually grow MUCH bigger if you allow maximum loop unrolling. I did a loop (for (i=0;i<1000;i++) and it unrolled that sucker to nearly 30k or something like that. Fast, but very big for a 'do' loop that does nothing. I'm definatley NOT a power user when it comes to 'C', just a novice, so 'C' 3.2 will do me just fine There is 1 Reply. #: 19370 S3/Languages 21-Nov-93 22:15:11 Sb: #19357-Ultra ???? C Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) I hear ya! In fact I think "power user" has little to to with compiler choice. 3.2 isn't ANSI, which would be nice. But I know where all the caveats are, and that is worth a ton when you ship product based on that compiler. As you saw in my second message, I fiddled the time-space knobs too. It appears that ucc might be ok if it had an 'embedded library' that was lean and mean but had floating point. 3.2 was smaller but had floats. #: 19355 S3/Languages 19-Nov-93 20:11:57 Sb: #19353-Ultra ???? C Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) No ucc power users by here yet, huh? I have some new info to share. Contrary to what the manual says, apparently even in backward compatibility mode you still have to tell it to use word accesses if that is what you want. That did help reduce the size of the executables, but they are still larger than those produced by cc and gcc. The actual code produced for my program is smaller now by about 6%, but when you link it against the provided libraries, it ends up bigger. The difference in my application appears to be around 8K due to the libraries (and I'm using the backwards compatibility mode to hold it to that much growth). There is an option to use the "small" libraries, but they don't do floating point, so I would have to write a fixed point math library or something. Oh, and the programs run when compiled with cc, but crash with divide by zero when compiled with gcc and with bus error when compiled with ucc. Most likely by problem, but a bit dis-heartening. Carl #: 19361 S3/Languages 20-Nov-93 10:40:20 Sb: #19353-Ultra ???? C Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) [Ultra-C Code Size and Compile Time Horror story trimmed] > reinstalled c v3.2. Thank God for the REINSTALL_OLD script included with > Ultra 'C'. I am going to go pick uucc 1.1 next week and I will see if it > improves comp time/code size. This parallels my experiance with Ultra C V1.0. Unfortunately for me, I picked up Ultra-C last year on a special deal which Microware was offering. I paid $499 for it, I understand the regular price is $999. I called my Microware salesman a few weeks ago and found that a V1.1 upgrade would cost me $395!!!!! I guess that is a good price if one paid $999 for V1.0, but it sucks for me to have to pay just $100 less than what I paid for the original just to get an upgrade. An upgrade which sounds like does not fix the original problems. That is, consistently larger binaries and much longer compile times, and for what? ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions ColorSystems "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!" #: 19377 S3/Languages 22-Nov-93 20:47:20 Sb: #19343-Ultra ???? C Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 I assume that you have reviewed the "ultra c application notes" 02/93 from MW? #: 19344 S9/Utilities 18-Nov-93 21:21:34 Sb: #19310-AR Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 Thanks Lee. Debi and I are doing well. She says hi! #: 19362 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Nov-93 18:01:31 Sb: #19316-Shell+V2.1 fix Fm: Ron Lammardo 75706,336 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, Sounds reasonable (waiting a bit). Now to just figure out what would have to come out! Ron #: 19363 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Nov-93 18:10:51 Sb: #19317-Shell+V2.1 fix Fm: Ron Lammardo 75706,336 To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X) Ian, Can't recall what he problem was with shell variables being input on the call line....Sounds like a good idea, and I know we brought it up before, but I can't remember what the difficulty was. As for rename.....you would need a rename command that does its own wildcard manipulations as opposed to the shell processing them. The shell will expand whatever is passed to it and then pass along the expanded version to the command which is requested. Not what you need to do the rename in the fashion that you want. Ron #: 19322 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 14-Nov-93 08:19:55 Sb: #19319-#Termcap stuff for 6809 Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Michele Dalene 72652,2765 (X) Michele, > I am looking for a program that goes with the Mark Griffith C Termcap > Librairy called Setterm which configures the /dd/sys/ttype file have you > seen this program around? Gee...it's been so long since I worked on a CoCo that I can't even remember if something like this exists here. Maybe Steve Wegert can look for you. > I also am looking for a copy of SLED (NOT SCRED!!!!) that is compiled > for Termcaps? The ORIGINAL version used CoCo screen control codes to work. I don't think there was ever a termcap version done. I hacked it up and released it to use the Level II windows codes and cleaned it up a bit to get it to work better than before. It still has bugs, but not nearly as many as when I first got it (grin). /************* /\/\ark ************/ (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01) There is 1 Reply. #: 19325 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 14-Nov-93 21:12:38 Sb: #19322-Termcap stuff for 6809 Fm: Michele Dalene 72652,2765 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hmm. Thats ironic as when I looked at it. it HAD a termcap option. Or was that something else....? I could have been the Coco version of Emacs I am talking of, the Original Version not the Philip Brown modification of the GNU Emacs. but still I want a text edtior that is full screen, that will work on a terminal. May it be my vt52 or my Vt100 or a Vt220 or a Coco3 or a ADM. If Rick Adams was able to modify VI I would have been alset but he told me that he did not have the time for such a project Michele Dalene #: 19323 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 14-Nov-93 11:42:11 Sb: #19319-#Termcap stuff for 6809 Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Michele Dalene 72652,2765 (X) Michele, I have a ttyset utility, that will t(set the terminal type on a port, based on the device name. But I'm not sure of where it came from, I think from Carl Kreider's mtsmon for OS9, which, as far as I know, was never released for the CoCo because the stock ACIAPAK driver didn't support the required system calls. I've only used the earlier versions of Sled, I don't know anything about a termcap xDversion. The same goes for dEd, I don't know of a termcap version, although that doesn't mean there isn't one! Named pipes were in the upgrade, I've never heard of any other attempt to write named pipes for LII. -Bill- There is 1 Reply. #: 19326 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 14-Nov-93 21:18:09 Sb: #19323-Termcap stuff for 6809 Fm: Michele Dalene 72652,2765 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) AH! thats what I was Lookng For :) Could you post that here in theDB? As for MTsmon. I use SACIA. could you get permission from the author for that too? Michele Dalene P.S a Delphite is planning to use Termcap for A coco Program Eons after I requested that new programmers use the standard. Better late than never! P.S how do you parse a Termcap file from Basic09? I figured you need an Arraw. but how do your Decode theh "C" type text entries in the termcap file in my /dd/sys dir so that basic09 could make use of them directly/ I mean if I read the data into an array and passed the address and size of the arraw to a GFX system that used the termcap. How would I write this GFX system? Being I am busy at class and my brain is tied up on Psychology right now, I don't have the patience or the motivation to recreate the wheel. Obviously of GFX and GFX" oops GFX3 does this somehow. and since it is a data module it needs to get its stack and buffers from b09 that only makes me wonder of how I could write such a monster parser. any help? #: 19372 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Nov-93 23:06:09 Sb: #19052-#Review: 340 Upgrade Fm: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766 To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X) Well, I got my 68340 upgrade board two weeks ago, made the new boot disk, no problem doing the boot disk... Then I oppend up the MM1, removed the 68070 chip, the roms, replaced the pall chips with the faster chips supplied, pluged in the 68340 upgrade board, set the wait state pins, replaced the I/O board, and powerd up the MM1, and got exactly NOTHING, the MM1 was dead... No screen no drive lights, Nothing! So I reinstalled the old CPU (68070) and the old ROMS, but left in the new palls, reset the wait state, reassembled the whole thing and powered up the MM/1 again, wholla it booted up No problem... So I reinstalled the 68340 board and ROMM's again, and still NOTHING! On axamining the 68070 socked where the new board plugs in, and it looks like the traces of the plug on the 68340 board plug dont meet the contact of the socked, the traces are a little recessed a little in plastic fins, and cant make contact with the new board... The old 68070 chip's contacts are curled and stand of the ship a little, and they go in the the recessed fins to make contact in the socket's contacts, the contacts on the 68340 board's plug must also stand off about 2 milimeters to make cantact with the sockets contacts... But the board I got had contats on the boards plug that where imbetted flush, and could not make the required contact for proper operation... BlackHawk Enterprises is sending me a new 68340 board, hope that will plug in proper... G'Day! There is 1 Reply. #: 19376 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 22-Nov-93 19:01:08 Sb: #19372-Review: 340 Upgrade Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 To: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766 > Well, I got my 68340 upgrade board two weeks ago, made the new boot disk, > the MM1 was dead... No screen no drive lights, Nothing! So I First off, let me make sure you are aware that I am not an official representative of Blackhawk Enterprises, I am a customer like you. > But the board I got had contats on the boards plug that where imbetted > flush, and could not make the required contact for proper operation... Kevin Pease installed my board. He did a "destructive" upgrade to the socket the '070 had been in. It has little plastic standoffs mounted inside it so the '070's contacts will make contact with the socket. But the "plug" for the '340 accel board HAS to go ALL the way down! So he clipped out the stanoffs so the accel board would go all the way down. Pease said that if I ever wanted to go back to the '070, I'd have to mount some kind of standoffs in there. But, mine is working OK and there ain't no reason why I'd want to go back to the '070!!! > BlackHawk Enterprises is sending me a new 68340 board, hope that will plug > in proper... Good luck with your system. If all else fails, give Pease a call. His number is (615) 758-9787 at home. ------------------------------------ Zack C Sessions ColorSystems "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!" #: 19327 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Nov-93 21:55:37 Sb: #19221-MM1-68340 Fm: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766 To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X) Thanks for the info, it will come in handy, then I just got my own 68340 Accelerator upgrade, board, three chips and a floppy disk with a bunch of software, already made the floppy boot disk for the 68340 accelerator, just have to get the time and currage to the the hardware haking... Will report the progress I make in the future... G'Day! Dieter #: 19324 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Nov-93 14:47:19 Sb: #OS9, 3.0 Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: All I thought some of you might be interested in this press release I found in 'Electronic Design', Oct 4/93.... Taking aim at hyper-embedded, hard real-time applications, version 3.0 of the Microware's OS-9 operating system has a preemptible kernel, faster interrupt response and context switching, and more efficient interprocess communication mechanisms. The OS upgrade also has improved determinism, enhanced memory-management facilities, and greater overall system call throughput. For resource-limited embedded applications, Microware has the Atomic OS-9 runtime microkernel, 20% smaller and 15% faster than the standard v3.0 kernel, yet upwardly compatible. The microkernel has a subset of the functions in the OS-9 v.3 kernel, excluding development and debugging support... Version 3.0 supports system-state preemption... Microware to improve determinism [sic] has added system-state preemption to the OS core I/O file managers. It also has a new "buddy" memory allocator, assigning memory on a more predictable block size basis rather than on a "first-fit" basis. The v3.0 kernel's fast IRQ system call (F$FIRQ) .... cut the interrupt latency in half--to 3.0us--by preforming partial register save... [pricing info follows]... There is 1 Reply. #: 19356 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Nov-93 22:29:39 Sb: #19324-OS9, 3.0 Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob, From past experence I would avoid versions of OS9 that end with a '0'... or rather... Frank #: 19338 S15/Hot Topics 17-Nov-93 14:37:35 Sb: New life for the MM/1 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: All Scarffed recently from the CoCo LIST at pucc.princeton.edu ... Reply-To: "David M. Graham" Sender: COCO - Tandy Color Computer List From: "David M. Graham" Subject: MM/1 X-To: coco@pucc.princeton.edu To: Multiple recipients of list COCO Status: RO Well, don't look now, BUT the MM/1 is BACK! As the saying goes, I liked my MM/1 SO MUCH, I bought the company!!! ;) Not really, but BlackHawk Enterprises, Inc. has purchased the rights to produce the MM/1, pending financing, and if I receive enough purchase requests, I WILL have the MM/1 back in production by NLT February 28, 1994. So, get those cards and letters coming, and thanks for your support!!! David M. Graham BlackHawk Enterprises nimitz@delphi.com Press !>