30802 20-JUL 20:47 Patches RE: GSHELL+ (Re: Msg 30799) From: MINIFREAK To: AARONS In addition to what Zack said, you DO have a copy of "save". It is merged to on of the other files in the CMDS dir of the original MVue disk. I don't remember exactly which file, but it was toward the end. Just IDENT them until you find it, then load that file, then you can save save to break it free. :> Randy -*- 30803 20-JUL 21:12 Device Drivers CRASHED HARD DRIVE From: DKIRCHER To: ALL I did something terrible to my hard drive. I was fiddling around with setting my J&M hard drive up for a direct os9 boot off the hard drive and something happened to the root directory of the tandy 15 meg drive. It now returns an error 15 and shows the directory switched off in the attributes (_serwpeprpw) Now before I dump it as a file with /h0@ and start that horrible salvage operation, I'd like to try to defeat the security and toggle that directory indicator TRUE. Presumeably the interior file system is still intact. I think it might work and I really have nothing to loose. Anyone out there in delphi land got any ideas??? I've been playing with disassembling the attr command with the hope of perhaps modifying it for the task, but as you have already guessed I'm not a programmer. No Dennis, I wasn't using Last Word. Thanks DLK -*- 30817 21-JUL 16:16 Device Drivers RE: CRASHED HARD DRIVE (Re: Msg 30803) From: GREGWATHEN To: DKIRCHER I had the same problem once. The only thing I can suggest is to check out the directory entry with DeD. That was how I fixed mine. I don't remember exactly how, but it took about 2 days to get it working. Good luck, maybe some others here have better suggestions. >>> Greg W <<< -*- 30829 22-JUL 02:58 Device Drivers RE: CRASHED HARD DRIVE (Re: Msg 30817) From: DKIRCHER To: GREGWATHEN (NR) DeD??? is this a COCO# utility. I've been away for a long while and still run level one coco II Thanks for the reply dlk -*- End of Thread. -*- 30804 20-JUL 21:14 General Information RE: No FORMAT after 1-Meg upgrade! (Re: Msg 30783) From: MRGOOD To: RADARBUZZ As far as boot order, I don't think there's one magic solution. I do know that you should keep all RBF related modules in the same8K memory block. -*- 30805 20-JUL 21:41 General Information RE: shell+ 2.1 (Re: Msg 30571) From: JASONEABY To: TIMKOONCE Got it, thanks. Makes a lot more sense now. I understand the 8k point quite well, I just never knew Shell needed space to check files. Oh well, live and learn -Jason -*- 30841 22-JUL 13:13 General Information RE: shell+ 2.1 (Re: Msg 30567) From: MAREK To: TIMKOONCE Is there a venewer version of Ron Lammardo's Shell+ aboue 2.1? I got that impression reading a the response you gave in the referenced message. -Michael -*- 30842 22-JUL 15:04 General Information RE: shell+ 2.1 (Re: Msg 30565) From: EDDIEKUNS To: JASONEABY (NR) I'm reading this about 2 weeks after you left it, so someone may already have said this... Just remember that when you have a file that's 16k-512bytes long of merged utils, that whenever you use any one of them, the entire 16k is mapped into the upper 2 blocks of the process space. For example, let's say you have shell, copy, and a bunch of other things merged so that they are just under $3E00 bytes long. Now, you invoke 'copy.' The entire FILE of merged utils is mapped into the top two blocks of the 64k process space for 'copy.' This means that you can give copy no more than 48k of data memory. (I know. "darn" But you see what I'm saying, right? ) Note that this also applies to your OS9Boot!!! Whenever you try to map in a device descriptor with a program ... you map in your entire OS9Boot file! If you have a huge one like mine (over 32k! I've got to trim it down) then you'll need 5 free blocks in your process space before you can link to a device descriptor. And in case no-one else has described why... Why the '-512bytes'? Well, when OS-9 is creating a process (giving it it's own 64k map to play with ... mapping in the memory blocks containing the executable and putting them at the top of memory ... mapping in free memory blocks at the bottom of memory for data), it must keep the top 512 bytes free and unused for memory-mapped I/O, just like under RSDOS where all I/O is deal with in the top 512 bytes of memory. So if you have a file which would overlap the top 512 bytes, then OS-9 maps the executable in one block lower, leaving the top block empty and giving you one less block available for data. (Except for certain exceptions when you map stuff in and OS-9 will map them in in the top block, but you can get bitten here if you extend this stuff (get-put buffers, modules (?)) into the top 512 bytes and write over the memory-mapped I/O registers!) Eddie -*- 30843 22-JUL 15:13 General Information RE: shell+ 2.1 (Re: Msg 30567) From: EDDIEKUNS To: TIMKOONCE Actually, I merged a bunch of short things with Shell and managed to keep it under $1E00. Here's what I have merged with Shell: 21 $11 $B8E5A3 . Shell 3 $11 $2C8A4B . DeIniz 2 $11 $5FE04A . Display 5 $11 $F5FF9A . Echo 3 $11 $392347 . Iniz 5 $11 $F63DA0 . Link 4 $11 $267381 . Load 1 $11 $FB5CC0 . pwd 1 $11 $644025 . pxd 3 $11 $8F769A . Save 2 $11 $09DFC1 . Unlink I have a bunch of other utilities merged into two other files each under $1E00. (I know that you understand the above! :) You message was a good place to reply to tho to post this in this thread.) Eddie -*- 30860 22-JUL 21:52 General Information RE: shell+ 2.1 (Re: Msg 30841) From: TIMKOONCE To: MAREK No, version 2.1 is the newest I know of. What you probably caught was a reference to the fact that I'm still using ver 2.0 right now. I just haven't gotten around to getting 2.1 installed. - Tim -*- 30877 23-JUL 18:33 General Information RE: shell+ 2.1 (Re: Msg 30842) From: ZACKSESSIONS To: EDDIEKUNS I guess that's why Kev mentions in his book that even though the "ideal size" of a merged file is (8K * N) - 512, where N ranges from 1 to 7, he follows that up with, "Actually, N should be kept around 1, if possible." Zack -*- 30878 23-JUL 18:37 General Information RE: shell+ 2.1 (Re: Msg 30860) From: ZACKSESSIONS To: TIMKOONCE (NR) Actually, Tim, there is a newer version, only it's running only on a few systems around the country. We got a glimpse of it at the Chicago fest last April running on (naturally) Ron Lammardo's system during the "Mona Lisa" demo. Zack -*- End of Thread. -*- 30806 20-JUL 22:28 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30793) From: RAGTIMER To: XLIONX Good, Mark -- thanks for confirming what I think I said about malloc(), how it takes only from un-assigned memory, so the more you #K, the LESS you have for malloc(). I'm sure this bass-ackwards behavior of malloc confuses lots of folks -- I saw a deservedly well-respected OS9 expert say here that malloc only takes from assigned memory. That is, he was 100% wrong! I have no idea how malloc coaxes that extra memory out of OS9, but it works. Talk about kicking hornets -- Umuse3 se3 calls malloc, maps get/put buffers, links in subr modules, runs a VDG screen (horrors!), and forks off another process (Fran) with a pipeline down its throat! It's a real tribute to OS9-L2 that my mess runs at all! Hornets, roaches, Lyme ticks -- we find 'em all. -*- 30812 21-JUL 01:09 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30806) From: XLIONX To: RAGTIMER It's all in the wrist ! I have studied the UNIX version of alloc (Yes that ALLOC with an 'A') found in the K&R 'C' Language manual. It is most informative. Malloc just makes system calls to F$Mem (I think). This would work as if you had just added a block to the "HEAP-STACK". This is totaly seperate from the memory size found in the header (like when you IDENT a module and see it's data size). THIS little piece of information DATA SIZE is DIRECTLY related to the 'Program #nnK' option. If you like to use COPY #48k , you could change the header info to call that many pages in ALLWAYS. Not so good if you run a tight user area. Knot1 wrote quite a nice program called 'cp' that uses dynamic memory allocation for the COPY function. I hope anyone that likes very functional utilities checks this one out! -gotta run -nice chatting with you! -mark -*- 30834 22-JUL 08:33 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30746) From: BRIANWHITE To: MIKEHAALAND Mike, The "message" I was referring to was in fact the "copyrighted" patch posted by Paul for Shell+. Besides being indignant about that patch being solely and completely his (when I had seen part of it before), he was woefully ignorant as to how OS-9 L2 mana ges memory. He described assigning an 8k block to a process as being a "huge waste". Well, as I said to him, it is not a waste. OS-9 L2 assigns a whole 8-k block to a process anyways! There is no harm is the process knowing about extra memory that is there and there is absolutely no system memory or process map space wasted! Now I'll assume that, based on the facts of this case, that the C call malloc() does nothing but use the F$MEM call to increase the data space required by the program. Since malloc() assumes that any memory given on startup is required for global mem/st ack space (A logical assumption, I'll admit) and additional memory is wasted. Sooo... It is still the program that isn't making use of the aditional space. Sure, you can trace the blame back to the Shell for doing something unexpected by the program, but it is still the program that doesn't use the memory it is given efficiently. As for the mapped-block problem descibed in your message, it would seem the Shell+ would cause absolutely no problems since the program you described took the whole 8k data space to begin with. Now, if you were to say that a 2k data space program that l ater requested 5k more (as is the general case with all the problem software in point), then, yes, there is a problem because Shell+ gave 8k in the beginning for a total of 13k. Finally, I do not disagree with you. The jist of your thoughts are 100% correct. I only pointed out that the comments made by Paul were, in fact, wrong. It is, in fact, the programs, not the shell, that is wasting the memory it is given. As for the d ispute as to whether Shell should have given the extra memory, I only pointed out that the creators of Shell+ did some thinking ahead about what could be done with the leftover data space. Telling programs that don't care would make no difference. Tell ing programs that checked their available data space would. Okay, so they didn't think quite far enough about programs that didn't expect the space but still requested more. If I seemed to take a side on this, I appoligise because I didn't mean to. I was just trying to be fair. Brian (And you did mean to flame at me... otherwise you wouldn't have sent the message.) -*- 30835 22-JUL 08:33 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30786) From: BRIANWHITE To: RAGTIMER Mike, Hey... Thanx for the support! Check out my last message to Mike Haaland about some things I was thinking. I think the main problem of all this stems from the F$MEM call (whick I'd bet malloc() uses). Which is used to expand a data space as the program desires. Some programs just weren't written to use space given at the start and expect to allocate it as n eeded. I wonder how the OS-k C compiler will do things. If malloc() does the eqivalent of the F$MEM, then there is the chance that any new programs started after yours will eat the data space you need to malloc() and your program will fail. Maybe it will just do a non-contiguous memory allocation, except that Kev said it was only possible to do 31 of those. Hmmm... Maybe malloc() will be intelligent and try to expand memory and then if that fails it would try to expand the last non-contiguous block it allo cated (assuming an alloc has been done previously and it is possible to expand them). Then if it still fails, it would allocate a new non-contiguous block. Actually, I guess that even if the given malloc() doesn't do that it would pretty easy to write our own malloc() that would. Boy, the realloc() could be a pain, though... Brian -*- 30845 22-JUL 15:58 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30806) From: GREGL To: RAGTIMER Mike, I've just sent the malloc() source code to you via Mail. As you can plainly see, and as I was telling you earlier, it does use existing allocated memory before it requests new memory. It handles this by using a linked list to form a chain of memory allocation requests. The only problem I can forsee is whether or not the startup code (cstart.a) is initializing the chain to reflect the total free memory to begin with. But, hey, don't take my word for it - go look at the code yourself. I suspect the whole process is getting off on the wrong foot by using an unitialized chain. The only way I can see to fix that is to declare the chain global (instead of static) and forcing the startup code to initialize it. That is most likely where the trouble is coming from. -- Greg -*- 30847 22-JUL 16:10 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30845) From: GREGL To: RAGTIMER Mike, I just looked at the code again. It appears that if the beginning of the chain is zero (uninitialized), it calls sbrk(). sbrk(), in turn, examines its own local variable to see if it is zero. If it is, it initializes it with memtop (stored as a global variable in cstart), initializes all free memory to zero, and returns the free memory size to malloc(). All of this, by the way, is in Carl Kreider's version of the library which is a lot less buggy and cleaner than the original Microware library. If you are using Microware's version of the library, take two Exlax and switch. -- Greg -*- 30850 22-JUL 17:38 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30787) From: EDDIEKUNS To: RAGTIMER Well, KBCom is huge and isn't hurt by shell+'s 8k memory allocation! As I remember it, you only get the shell+ treatment if your default data size is under 8k, right? If so, then that's why KBCom doesn't get bit, because its default data size is just over 9k. (KBCom hard-allocates at compile time all the memory it KNOWS it will need for internal structures so I don't waste memory in malloc's overhead to keep the linked lists of memory.) When you say: copy file1 file2 #8k you don't mean "add 8k to the default amount," you mean "fork 'copy' with either 8k of memory or the default data size, whichever is bigger." Right? Eddie -*- 30863 22-JUL 22:08 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30786) From: TIMKOONCE To: RAGTIMER I suspect it's only a problem with malloc(), or the occasional assembly program that uses F$Mem to request more memory. Setting the #31 won't allocate a new block, and linking in modules or G/P buffers always involves a separate block. - Tim -*- 30927 28-JUL 00:49 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30835) From: RAGTIMER To: BRIANWHITE Yer welcome. Yes, you reminded me -- the C compiler stages were the first programs I remember that alloc'ed all the space they needed, and did not benefit froma any #nnK you might give. In fact, now we guess they might SUFFER if you gave extra on the command line. Anyway, I found the source (Kreider's?) in my mailbox. Realloc(), which we don't have but Un*x does, will do whatever is necessary to return a sold block (to you) of space, AND recopy whatever data you already had in its previous incarnation. --mike k PS: Who sez there's no RESEARCH in Computer "Science", grin? -*- 30928 28-JUL 00:55 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30845) From: RAGTIMER To: GREGL OK, I'll read it and weep, grin. Scary to think there's an uninit static in there. Actually, I KNOW there is a static that's initialized in the usual startup data stuff, just as when you declare "int foo = 1;". In fact I think there are 4 bytes of init'ed static in malloc() family. Question is, are they init'ed correctly? I still feel that malloc() starts off just beyond my process's header allocation, finishing off that 8K block's leftover space, then grabbing more 8K blocks above that, which OS9-L2 makes look like contiguous memory space to my process. My own tests show that by giving more stack space, I take away from what malloc () can get. Wonder if Carl Kreider remembers how the darn thing works? -*- 30929 28-JUL 00:58 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30847) From: RAGTIMER To: GREGL Why should I take Exclax? My wife can afford a full-sized coffin, grin! I mean my widow.... Well, now we're getting somewhere. Since alloc()'s static variables are Inited class, they must be(?) init'ed to something nonzero. What, I wonder...? BTW, I've been using Kreider's first C lib for years -- but haven't switched to the second edition yet. Should, to get some of his new additions. -*- 30930 28-JUL 01:02 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30850) From: RAGTIMER To: EDDIEKUNS (NR) I think you are right about the 8K thingie. Actually, I COULD just pre-declare my one big array used by a file-reading subroutine, and throw malloc() out completely! But I keep it around in case some OTHER funciton needs some tempoorary stuff. I mean more than I want to throw on the Stack. Did y'all know that malloc() will gladly hand out memory already allocated to your VDG screen? Another singing commercial for "real" windows... -*- 30931 28-JUL 01:05 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30863) From: RAGTIMER To: TIMKOONCE (NR) Yeah, it's a malloc-related problem. The extra Shell+ allocation causes mallaoc() to map in another 8K block to satisfy its needs, so now you don't have the spare 8K blocks needed to map in modules and buffers. Tho somehow the exact symptoms in Umuse3 didn't support this -- will have to simulate it myself and refresh my memeory. -*- 30935 28-JUL 01:15 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30928) From: GREGL To: RAGTIMER I'm not real sure on some of the points that have been brought up. The code in cstart is "supposed" to mark the top of memory as given to it by OS-9 in the memtop global variable and set the top of used memory in another global variable. (May be memtop and memend?) I think what it boils down to now is whether or not cstart is 'smart enough' to adjust the unallocated heap if given more memory via the command line. I'm studying the code on that, but no definite answers yet. Something is definitely strange somewhere. -- Greg -*- 30937 28-JUL 01:22 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30929) From: GREGL To: RAGTIMER By the way, let me know if you find anything funny in that source I may have missed. It definitely appears that malloc() is using a linked list to track each of the memory allocations. So that would seem to point to either cstart or possibly ?brk() falling down on the job if it's not picking up the extra memory. I wonder if it's something as stupid as an unitialized variable? Nah! Just can't be. If it's the chain pointer in malloc(), the whole system will go up in smoke at one point or another. And it appears that ?brk() is splitting memory requests into full 256-byte blocks, probably because of the system memory map under Level 1. -- Greg -*- 30938 28-JUL 01:23 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30935) From: RAGTIMER To: GREGL Well, you have a good lead there -- maybe cstart just ignores the command-line extra allocation? No, that would cause no troubles like we had -- must be it mis-uses the info and gets something bolloxed up. Mind you, this Shell+ feature never crashed Umuse3 in an ugly mess -- it just made Umuse3 such taht no subroutine modules could be linked in, meaniong that an extra 8K block had become unavailable. Wonder what cstart puts in those two initialized words in the malloc() and free() family? These may be the Heap pointers. Too bad I got my CS degrees before heaps were invented! -*- 30939 28-JUL 01:24 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30937) From: RAGTIMER To: GREGL Yeah, and the SHell+ feature never "smoked" me. Mallocs()'s willingness to give away VDG memory space is kind of annoying, tho you usually get enuf warning when the "oil spills" start creeping down your screen....mike k -*- 30942 28-JUL 01:58 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30938) From: GREGL To: RAGTIMER (NR) Ok, I'm looking the cstart source now. The first thing it does is push Y (top of memory) and U (data beginning address) and clears the direct page. It then loads X with the data beginning address, adds in the end of BSS address (at end,x) and pushes it onto the stack. After initializing the initialized variables, it sets memend to the top of memory (original Y register). Hmmm... I don't see it initializing _stbot (bottom of stack) or _mtop (top of non-stack memory) yet. Ah, just found it. Immediately before branching to main, it sets _mtop to 'leax end,y' and stbot to the current address of the stack - ditto for _sttop. So that means all global variables in cstart are getting initialized properly provided that the stack is correct when it pulls the original Y register. And the initial memory allocation chain pointer in malloc() is initialized to zero via 'd0000 fdb $0000' within the vsect. Hmmmm... unless I goofed, _spare used by sbrk() is not initialized data, at least not specifically. But, static data (which is what _spare is) is supposed to be initialized to NULL according to K&R. So providing that the Microware compiler is following those conventions, it should be A-OK. The first thing done by sbrk() is to check _spare. If _spare is zero, it initializes it using memend and rechecks the memory allocation request before attempting to allocate data. Also, if _spare is NULL, sbrk() returns the whole kit and kaboodle of free heap to malloc() so that it can initialize its chain. But, like I said earlier, it looks like malloc() allocates a minimum of 256 bytes when calling sbrk() to allocate external memory. But in the case of our story, only the free heap is used until it is exhausted. The only strange part of malloc is its adjustment of the requested memory size: ldd 6,u Get requested memory size addd #3 lsra rorb lsra rorb addd #1 std 0,s Store new memory request Offhand, I don't know why it's doing that. Add 3 bytes, effective divide by four, and add another byte. -- Greg -*- End of Thread. -*- 30807 20-JUL 22:31 General Information RE: os9 pascal (Re: Msg 30794) From: RAGTIMER To: XLIONX Sure, I'd love some more ideas for Umuse -- used to get a lot but not so many lately. Are you thinking of a "MIDI Event" feature? I'm hoping to put that in soon. Send me the ideas via private Email here. OK, so that was Jeff, aka Tangerine (as in Dream?) That's some synth band I read about in Keyboard Mag, grin. -*- 30813 21-JUL 01:23 General Information RE: os9 pascal (Re: Msg 30807) From: XLIONX To: RAGTIMER Ah sooo...yes thats the same group. You would probably like their music for at least it's technical beauty. I listen to WNIB 97.1 FM when I drive to and from work. Classical music 'de-stresses' me very quickly. I took piano lessons starting at age 8 through age 14 (on and off I'm afraid). Favorite composers: F.Liszt, F.Chopin, S.Rachmaninoff, W.Mozart, R. Schumann, F. Schubert, Musorgsky (spelling), L.Beethoven. As you can see, I am kinda particular ];->. Have you downloaded RONDO.ARC yet? Listen to it if you have time. Please tell me if you know of a better way to force an extra tripplet into a measure. -mark -*- 30940 28-JUL 01:28 General Information RE: os9 pascal (Re: Msg 30813) From: RAGTIMER To: XLIONX (NR) OK -- those are mostly Romantic composers you like. Is T. Dream sort of classical style? I recall DLing Rondo, but I think that was the file in some new nonstandard DeArc format, so I haven't cracked it yet. Have to go hunt the de-arcer. Actually, plain old AR does a great job of crunching .UME files, which shows you just how inefficient my score encoding scheme is, grin. I bet a few users would love it if you re-submitted that RONDO in stock AR format. What, me drop a hint? mike k -*- End of Thread. -*- 30808 20-JUL 22:37 General Information Bad uploads with WIZ From: RAGTIMER To: GREGL I'd been meaning to say something about this, but just got some more info. Many UltiMuse3 music file uploads here have been bugged by an extra leading byte, Hex 15 or decimal 21. And then I DL'ed a huge score with a whole 128 bytes of garbage up front. Anyway, the author told me he'd been using The Wiz (he actually got it to work) with "CocoBin Mode" on. He feels that mode is adding the extra bytes, so I suggested he turn it off. You might want to warn people not to use that mode, except when really using CocoBin Batch (is that supported anymore?). Also I wrote a simple utility to strip off the leading bytes, once you know how many there are. Should I upload it? Lf~ -*- 30820 21-JUL 19:03 General Information RE: Bad uploads with WIZ (Re: Msg 30808) From: GREGL To: RAGTIMER Mike, The first time you go into the databases you get a banner warning not to use CoCoBin if you are using Wiz. The big reason for that is that, as you've discovered, it causes more of a hassle than it's worth. For some files I take it "on faith" that the CoCoBin header isn't there unless I spot the header in a dump of the file. Most of the time the CoCoBin header is fairly obvious, especially in AR files where the first few bytes should be +AR+0.0 followed by the filename. There is a utility in the database dedicated to stripping CoCoBin headers but it doesn't work on other formats - whatever they may be. If you have a general purpose utility for doing that, feel free to post it. Do you recall which files have the header tacked on? To date I haven't run across any with a single by "header" so I suspect that must be garbage that went undetected. -- Greg -*- 30934 28-JUL 01:14 General Information RE: Bad uploads with WIZ (Re: Msg 30820) From: RAGTIMER To: GREGL Sorry, cana't remember exactly which .UME files, but one was "King of Kings Theme" and another was by HAZEN. These had a leading $15 byte. My utility works fine IF you know exactly how many junk bytes are up front. Last year I uploaded a B09 utility to strip trailing junk (XModem stuff), with of course the same restriction. But I'll upload with a little doc and source sometime. Thanks for the response. -*- End of Thread. -*- 30809 20-JUL 22:46 General Information MAIL bug folks should know about From: RAGTIMER To: GREGL Greg, someone needs to broadcast a warning about the MAIL system here on Delphi. When you are typing in a message to send someone, there is an autmoatic CR-LF when your cursor hits the right margin of the screen, so you might just keep right on typing. BUT -- the MAIL program just throws away all the caracters beyond the 1st freebie CR-LF. I've got lots of mail message consisting of part of one sentence, with who knows how much more dead and gone to the bit bucket. I reply to these people "Always hit ENTER at the end of each screen line", and then I start getting complete messages from them. Is there some way you can tell everyone about this, or mention it in the Rainbow or something? Thanks, mike k. -*- 30818 21-JUL 16:20 General Information RE: MAIL bug folks should know about (Re: Msg 30809) From: GREGWATHEN To: RAGTIMER Mike, I think if you turn word wrap on you will see the whole message. I've had that problem before with people who use RS-DOS editors to write their messages before uploading. I think the forum handles it differently, but mail doesn't attempt to format the message for you. Anyway, give it a try and see how it works. >>> Greg W <<< -*- 30821 21-JUL 19:06 General Information RE: MAIL bug folks should know about (Re: Msg 30809) From: GREGL To: RAGTIMER Mike, We've had several banners over the years warning people to hit ENTER at the each of every line. Mail strips everything beyond the first 'freebie' CR/LF and everything else strips beyond 255 characters unless you coerce it with carriage returns. I'll add a new banner to warn people about that. -- Greg -*- 30851 22-JUL 17:49 General Information RE: MAIL bug folks should know about (Re: Msg 30809) From: EDDIEKUNS To: RAGTIMER I'll mention it in a "Delphi Bureau." Thanks for the hint! Eddie -*- 30932 28-JUL 01:08 General Information RE: MAIL bug folks should know about (Re: Msg 30818) From: RAGTIMER To: GREGWATHEN (NR) OK -- is word wrap one of your Terminal mode options, or part of Mail? I thought the problem was people typing in mail with word wrap enabled. Well, too late to try reading any of those messages. I know the missing lines did not show up in my capture buffer either. Anyhow, I noticed that GregL has installed a warning message to anyone checking into this Group, saying to hit ENTERs. Thanks, mike k -*- 30933 28-JUL 01:09 General Information RE: MAIL bug folks should know about (Re: Msg 30821) From: RAGTIMER To: GREGL OK, thanks. I saw your new banner when I checked in tonite. --mike k -*- End of Thread. -*- 30810 21-JUL 00:48 Programmers Den RE: Problems with G/P buffers... (Re: Msg 30800) From: XLIONX To: DODGECOLT You got it! You can create some mighty big linked lists in 4 - 16 Meg of mem using dynamic memory allocatioin!!! -mark -*- 30814 21-JUL 04:49 Programmers Den RE: Problems with G/P buffers... (Re: Msg 30810) From: DODGECOLT To: XLIONX One of the problems with Ed 1.6 was that it used fixed 80 character blocks for each element in t he list. This was EXTREMELY wasteful (kinda like 8k blocks!), tho it was fast also. At least variable length blocks will help some for those who stick with Level II and the 6809... -Mike -*- End of Thread. -*- 30811 21-JUL 01:02 Patches RE: OS9 LII and GFX2 (Re: Msg 30364) From: GLENNTHIG To: DALEP (NR) Dale, Thanks for the info. It's taking me a long time to reply, as my online money has been running short. I'm in the process of buying a house right now. I'll keep checking in to hear about the new machine developments and OS9 LII upgrades. Best to you also. Glenn -*- 30815 21-JUL 04:59 Utilities RE: Ed (Re: Msg 30801) From: THEFERRET To: DODGECOLT IT is "relatively" simple to change the colors. What you have to do is change the pallete colors. Unfortunately, thisis mainly by trial and error, to find the right pallete. I do know that foreground and background are linked with $09 and $0d registers. to change them, pull up a shell from the file menu, and use display 1b 31 xx yy xx is register number yy is desired color. TA-DA! :-) Phil B-) -*- 30816 21-JUL 14:29 Utilities RE: Ed (Re: Msg 30815) From: DODGECOLT To: THEFERRET New new version of Ed (3.0- coming RSN! :) will let you save your color preferences so you won't have problems with mono monitors... I probably _should_ have included this option in the original. -Mike -*- End of Thread. -*- 30822 21-JUL 23:05 Telcom Terminal programs From: HARLIN To: ALL Could anyone tell me of a half-way decent terminal program that runs on level two and doesn't require a RS-232 pac? Thanks for the help! -*- 30823 22-JUL 00:04 Telcom RE: Terminal programs (Re: Msg 30822) From: TJSEAGROVE To: HARLIN (NR) I don't know of ANY OS-9 terminal program that doesn't use an RS-232 pak. Someone else may know of one but I don't think one exists. ....Tom -*- 30852 22-JUL 18:15 Telcom RE: Terminal programs (Re: Msg 30823) From: EDDIEKUNS To: TJSEAGROVE A shareware device driver for the bitbanger port, "bitbang" exists. You need to make a simple modification to the cable between the bitbanger port and your modem to enable to port to generate an interrupt on incoming bits. I haven't gotten it to work very well myself, but others have been using it for months with no problems. With this device driver, any OS-9 terminal program which allows you to specify which device to use (ie: not Telstar or WizPro) should work fine. I've heard reports that KBCom works fine with this driver, and I can't imagine that OSTerm or Supercomm wouldn't also. (To unravel the double negative ... I'm positive they will! :) Bitbang isn't on Delphi, but it is on the bitnet/internet CoCo list. It may or may not be on CIS ... I don't know. Also ... in the Rainbow a couple years back there was an article which described how to turn the bitbang port into a "full" rs232 port which I have heard of many people using successfully. Eddie -*- 30875 23-JUL 17:57 Telcom RE: Terminal programs (Re: Msg 30852) From: TJSEAGROVE To: EDDIEKUNS I don't believe that OSTerm will work as it is hard coded to use /T2. Maybe Vaghn could allow for the user to select which port to use in the next version of OSTerm. ....Tom -*- 30883 23-JUL 22:13 Telcom RE: Terminal programs (Re: Msg 30875) From: DWHILL To: EDDIEKUNS In fact, I'll ask Vaughn tomorrow night at the ACS meeting about it, that's one of the questions I'd been wondering about too. Also putting the various data files in a COM or SYS directory instead of the working directory. It's fun having the author around to pester! (grin) --Damon -*- 30892 24-JUL 21:45 Telcom RE: Terminal programs (Re: Msg 30875) From: EDDIEKUNS To: TJSEAGROVE (NR) You're correct. OSTerm is hardcoded to use /t2 and the Deluxe RS232 Pak and exact equivalents. Patches exist somewhere to change the address it pokes the hardware at. Eddie -*- End of Thread. -*- 30824 22-JUL 00:34 Telcom RE: OSTERM (Re: Msg 30432) From: EDDIEKUNS To: KNOT1 Well, it's possible to make a pretty good guess about whether a file is ASCII or binary based on the contents, but that's about it. That'w why Delphi doesn't send a file-length for ASCII files -- so it's won't send a filelength and get a file chopped short if you add CR's to it. Eddie -*- 30869 23-JUL 03:57 Telcom RE: OSTERM (Re: Msg 30824) From: KNOT1 To: EDDIEKUNS Eddie, Yes. Tim and I talked a good bit on just how to determine and convert text type files. Well, Delphi could still include a file size, and if the terminal program is going to fiddle with the data, then it is it's responsability to handle the file size properly. I hope to make a small program (probably called "fclean" or something) which will apply these methods to a file. All you'll have to do is type "fclean filename" and it will check if it is a text file; If so, it will then convert LF's and strip padding characters. Great for terminal programs which don't do this. -Jamie (KNOT1)- -*- End of Thread. -*- 30825 22-JUL 02:19 General Information RE: os9 upgrade (Re: Msg 30463) From: EDDIEKUNS To: TEDJAEGER (NR) Ummm ... do you already OWN an MSDOS machine? If you don't, then you're talking the difference between buying an MSDOS machine or buying a "CoCo-4." Not to disagree with your main point (Hey, I'd like to see the upgrade too!), but a worthwhile MSDOS machine (one that's upgradable without spending HUGE amounts of money) costs. Eddie -*- 30826 22-JUL 02:28 General Information RE: Buyer Beware! (Re: Msg 30475) From: EDDIEKUNS To: XLIONX I believe that for any credit card purchase you can call the credit card company (within 3 months or something) and have them not pay the people to whom you charged. Esp in a case like this. This is a nice reason to charge something. If you pay by check ... once the check is cashed that money is GONE. If you charge, you have time to change your mind. (Well, assuming there are problems. I don't remember all the details.) Eddie -*- 30827 22-JUL 02:32 Utilities PC-DOS From: TOMPRATT To: BRUCEISTED (NR) Hi Bruce, I have found your PC-DOS program to be very useful. I recently added a 3.5" 720K drive to my CoCo 3 system. I can not seem to get PC-DOS to write a file to a formatted MSDOS disk. I am using Version #10 of cc3disk. Can you offer any suggestions? I notice that the docs with PC-DOS refer to Version #11 of cc3disk, however, I can't see to find that in the archived file. Hope to hear from you soon. TOMPRATT P.S. The drive works fine under OS-9. -*- 30828 22-JUL 02:37 General Information RE: Buyer BEWARE (Re: Msg 30476) From: EDDIEKUNS To: XLIONX Talking about Bell Telephone ... shortly after I moved to Illinois, and coincidentally after I opened a telephone account here, I started getting all kinds of "Welcome to the neighborhood" junk mail. What a surprise! Got, I wonder HOW my name got on that list. Come to think of it tho ... it's been a LONG time since someone's asked to see a major credit card as a form of ID. Used to happen routinely several years back... but not in a long time. I get asked all the time tho if the phone # on my checks is accurate! (As well as my address.) And am just about always asked to write a phone # on VISA reciepts. I don't mind giving my phone number. I'm in the book. I haven't been bothered much by phone-retailing, surprisingly. (Maybe I'm just lucky?) Eddie -*- 30838 22-JUL 12:28 General Information RE: Buyer BEWARE (Re: Msg 30828) From: GREGL To: EDDIEKUNS I'm glad someone isn't getting sucked into the phone-retailing business. My phone has been ringing off the hook with those schmucks trying to sell something. "Hi. This is Jill and we're prepared to make you the offer of a lifetime...." CLICK. "How would you like to be a successful and well-paid executive. Join our executive search club and..." CLICK. "Hiiiaa. I'm Tiffany and I'd like to introduce you to our newest dance club featuring wild and exotic dancers..." CLICK. I mean, this crap oughta be illegal. -- Greg -*- 30848 22-JUL 16:12 General Information RE: Buyer BEWARE (Re: Msg 30595) From: EDDIEKUNS To: MPASSER Out of curiousity, please don't jump down my throat :), what's wrong with putting your phone # on a credit card slip? (Unless of course, you have an unlisted number which you wish to keep unlisted! :) Yeah, it's an invasion of our privacy, asking for information about where we live & all. But it's one that I don't worry about. My number's in the book. Anyone can find me, my address, and my phone number in there. I can clearly understand not wanting your credit card number to appear on checks (which is something I honestly never thought about before! I was pretty brainwashed & used to it). And that's something I'll prevent in the future. Tho I don't mind pulling it out to prove I *have* one. (ie: am credit-worthy and thus, ha, the check won't bounce.) But I'm curious what gain stores can get from a phone number. One thing I've noticed in the past year is that I've been asked less and less for a phone number (and hardly at all for an address!) on credit card slips, and less and less for more ID than a driver's license on a check. Eddie -*- 30853 22-JUL 18:27 General Information RE: Buyer BEWARE (Re: Msg 30838) From: EDDIEKUNS To: GREGL I agree that there aught to be legal limit on that random calling selling. (You DO know, right?, that many companies just call ALL numbers within a certain range so you can get these calls even if your number is unlisted because they hit it by chance. This is now illegal in SOME states. In others, a company must go through paperwork to become legally allowed to do this and then they are monitored. In others ... well, there are no limits!) But I've been terribly lucky so far. I can only remember one call since I've moved here (last Sept) of people trying to sell me something. When I lived in NJ, I used to get those postcards all the time tho. "You are guaranteed one of the following 5 prizes" and you call the number and find out you need to buy $300 of vitamins/$500 of water purifier/whatever. I called once out of curiousity, told them "no," and have thrown away all subsequent postcards of this type after ripping them into little pieces. Eddie -*- 30884 24-JUL 01:23 General Information RE: Buyer BEWARE (Re: Msg 30853) From: RADARBUZZ To: EDDIEKUNS Regarding that junk mail that tries to tell you you've "won" something or wants to offer you that "once in a lifetime" deal, here's what I started doing recently (snicker!): If they've enclosed a return-postage-paid envelop, then I take all that "stuff" (including the outer envelope) and squeeze it into the return envelope. I then write "Unsolicited Extraneous Material Returned at YOUR Expense" somewhere visable. And back it goes! I think in the future I'm going to add rocks, old washers, or anything else heavy, so that they end up paying more on that "return postage". -Jeff -*- 30893 24-JUL 21:48 General Information RE: Buyer BEWARE (Re: Msg 30884) From: EDDIEKUNS To: RADARBUZZ Hahahahahaha! That's a good one! I'll have to remember it! Eddie -*- 30909 26-JUL 17:31 General Information RE: Buyer BEWARE (Re: Msg 30848) From: MPASSER To: EDDIEKUNS (NR) Eddie, It's part because it's an invasion of privacy, and part because MANY bankcard issuers require only the cardholder's name and telephone number when inquiring about account status, available credit, balance, etc. Thus, if my phone number were written on a charge slip, and a dishonest clerk copied the information, not only would he or she be able to charge something fraudulently to my card, but would also be able to call my bank and find out JUST HOW MUCH credit I had left, so as to not either raise suspicion by exceeding the limit or to get the maximum possible use from one stolen number. Please also note that the expiration date is only required in credit card authorization (voice type) calls to ensure that the clerk has actually LOOKED at the expiration date, and IS NOT a check to see if that card is valid. The authorization center has NO IDEA what the expiration date of the card is, only if there is enough credit left on it for the purchase attempted. Thus, if you're told, say, for a check, "OK, well, I still have to write the number down, but I won't write the expiration date," put no faith in that. Hope this clarifies my stand on this a little bit! Mike P.S.: I wouldn't * think * of jumping down your throat! :) -*- End of Thread. -*- 30830 22-JUL 03:04 Utilities RE: database report (Re: Msg 30540) From: EDDIEKUNS To: BOBDORRELL Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Between travelling and a near hard drive crash and some other delays, I've been off Delphi for more than three weeks. I'm WAY ahead of you. In the near future, the structure of the database report in the Rainbow is going to change, and become more like a directory listing to make it easier to find something. Any description of specific items will be provided in the Delphi Bureau. (Whew, that last sentence reads horribly. But at 2am when I should really be in bed (I'm just recovering from being really sick. I had a fever of 102 all day yesterday!) I feel excused! :) Eddie -*- 30858 22-JUL 21:01 Utilities RE: database report (Re: Msg 30830) From: DWHILL To: EDDIEKUNS I'm glad to see the database listings in RAINBOW will be organized more clearly; wish the search function here on Delphi had a more global nature. I've found it useful, but sometimes found what I was looking for in a subdirectory I hadn't expected! Like the MS-DOS dearch utility, for example. --Damon -*- End of Thread. -*- 30831 22-JUL 03:10 General Information RE: 1 Meg problems? (Re: Msg 30548) From: EDDIEKUNS To: RADARBUZZ I've found that a new GIME fixed my sparklie problem right up! I have a very old CoCo 3. (The 2nd to hit Troy, NY) So I have the old mask of the GIME chip. With the new one ... I haven't noticed a sparklie yet! Eddie -*- 30832 22-JUL 04:34 General Information RE: One Megabyte CoCo-3 !! (Re: Msg 30740) From: CHYDE To: DWHILL Yup, sure did. Now I can't remember what I wanted to say. Oh well couldn't have been important I guess. -*- 30833 22-JUL 07:58 General Information Article correction From: BERGMANN To: ALL A couple of minor corrections to my article, "Life Without Line Numbers," in the August RAINBOW: At offset 0213, in Listing 2, RUN print_all_the_names (yourname,hisname,hername) should be: RUN PrintName2 (yourname,hisname,hername) Also, the sense of one sentence in paragraph 2 of page 64, was changed in editing. What I meant was, "Though I didn't doubt it was possible --- there were all those listings, after all --- I just couldn't see how it would work." I must say that it's certainly satisfying to see one's work get published the first time, and I'd like to encourage others to give it a try. It's worth the effort. -Dean -*- 30836 22-JUL 08:33 General Information RE: CP (Re: Msg 30747) From: BRIANWHITE To: KNOT1 Jamie, Why worry about the 7.5k barrior. Your program will still only take up 1 block for code. The only advantage you'll get from shaving the extra 512 bytes is you posible data space will increast from 48k to 56k. I don't think you use that much anyways, d o you? Brian -*- 30870 23-JUL 03:58 General Information RE: CP (Re: Msg 30836) From: KNOT1 To: BRIANWHITE Brian, Well, the Copy function of "cp" dynamically allocates memory as it is needed. If the file were large enough it could use up to the 48K of memory available. So using 56K would be possible. But it was coming to the point where I might have to remove some internal integrity checks (which should *never* be used anyways if all is working properly, but.....). I'm figuring it's not worth the extra 8K though. So if I can't find any nicer way of squeezing the extra 512 bytes out of it, I'll probably leave well enough alone. Thanks. -Jamie (KNOT1)- -*- End of Thread. -*- 30837 22-JUL 08:34 General Information RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30762) From: BRIANWHITE To: TIMKOONCE Tim, I really hate to dissapoint you, but the MM1 doesn't have a clock speed of 5x faster. In fact, at 15MHz, it's barely over double. Because the 6809 uses two clock signals, one out of phase by 90 degrees, there are 4 distinct regions of each clock cycle. The 68000/8088 and what-have-you don't do that. Instead, they quadruple their clock rates. So, in reality, you have a 7.16MHz 6809 in your CoCo when comparing to other processors. Of course, if you say you have a clock speed of 4x then you must also quadruple the instruction execution times. That is why the 6809 instruction "LDD #$1234" only takes 4 clock cycles while the 68000 equivalent instruction "MOVE.W #$1234,D0" takes 16 clock periods. Actually, in my Motorola book on the 680x0, it referrs to a clock cycle as being made up of 4 clock periods where, for example, a 1MHz clock rate would have 1 million clock "periods" per second. Thus, the MOVE instruction above is documented as taking 1 6(4/0) meaning a total of 16 clock periods of which 4 clock cycles are used for reading and 0 clock cycles are used for writing. While all very confusing (It took me years to fully understand it) it does mean that the 6809 in the CoCo 3 is running at almost the same speed as the 68000 found in the Amiga... The only (did I say ONLY) advantage the Amiga has is the 16-bit data path and loads of support hardware. The actual computing power gap is actually quite narrow! Brian -*- 30872 23-JUL 16:00 General Information RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30680) From: PKW To: COLINMCKAY Colin, If you are speaking of the fest demo -- those images were DECOMPRESSED -- they were just loading into memory buffers in the background as the show continued. Paul -*- 30906 26-JUL 00:50 General Information RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30837) From: KENHALTER To: BRIANWHITE I was just reading your message explaining clock cycles. Very interesting! I was wondering how my poor old under 2Mhz CoCo could stomp all over the Apple 2 plus at work (when doing the same chores). Now I know! Is the 6809 and it's compatibles the only CPU's that have this feature? Ken Halter -*- 30907 26-JUL 07:07 General Information RE: GFX2 & MM/1 (Re: Msg 30906) From: MATHOMPSON To: BRIANWHITE Brian, There's a couple things you gotta remember when doing clock speed compairsons. First of all, even with the dual-phase clock of the 6809, you only get a total of 3.57MHz worth of clock edges inside the chip, no matter what. The real reason a "1.78" MHz 6809 is a even match for an "8MHz" 8088 is that the 8088 and up line is microcoded, while the 09 is uses hard-wired logic for everything. And the reason it blows the doors off the apple is that is has a 6502 (less registers) running at just "1MHz". Also, the 4-clock-cycle-per-bus-cycle trick falls down for the 68020/30/40 and 80386/486. Both of these babies only use TWO (sometimes 3) clock cycles per bus cycle. This gives a speed increase above all the other things that have been cranked up (clock rate, register set, bus size, etc.). I also beleive that this is the case with the 8088-2, 8086-2 and 80286-2 CPUs ie that they use 2 clock cycles per bus cycle instead of 4. Correct me if I am wrong on this point, someone??? - Matt -*- End of Thread. -*- 30839 22-JUL 12:52 General Information RE: CoCo 4? (Re: Msg 30678) From: PKW To: THEFERRET Philip, Actually, one of our systems engineers and I will be in the San Francisco area in early August lining up a software deal. Leave me your address and phone number -- or better, call me at the numbers I left in email. We'd be glad to see you and show you the MM/1! Paul -*- 30865 22-JUL 22:24 General Information RE: CoCo 4? (Re: Msg 30839) From: TIMKOONCE To: PKW Paul, Since there are several of us OS9 hackers in the SF area, is there any way we/you could set up a showing?? If at all possible, I'd love the chance to see your little project, and find out a bit more about my next computer! - Tim -*- 30871 23-JUL 15:58 General Information RE: CoCo 4? (Re: Msg 30865) From: PKW To: TIMKOONCE (NR) Gosh, Tim! I didn't realize what a coterie of CoCo fans there were in the SF area! Tell you what, if you can do some test marketing and get together a list of folk willing to meet on Wednesday night August 8 (that IS a Wed, right?) then get back to me. We'll see what we can do. Thanks! Paul -*- End of Thread. -*- 30844 22-JUL 15:42 General Information RE: Alias (Re: Msg 30575) From: EDDIEKUNS To: BRIANWHITE Hmmm... thinking... It might be really nice to have a history in everything! Now, if there was some way to have a history associated with a PROCESS and not a PATH... Then SCF could have a flag: HistoryOn and if history was off it would act like it does now. (Keeping a history one line deep) But if history were turned ON then SCF would keep a history for that PROCESS and all shell would have to do is I$ReadLn. I just really insist on the history list being separate for each process! 'Cause shell (usually) forks it's children and passes on it's paths. I don't want them to inherit the shell history! (Or for their inputs to enter the shell history) I don't know how to tell SCF to make that distinction, which is why I proposed the code should be in the shell. But if anyone figures it out! Either go and do it, or teach me and I'll go do it! Eddie -*- 30846 22-JUL 16:01 General Information RE: File Attributes (Re: Msg 30578) From: EDDIEKUNS To: BRIANWHITE I like the way UNIX handles groups. Each file has an Owner and Group that it belongs to. The owner and group # of the owner (the person who last changed the file, I believe). Basically, every person has a user ID and a "default group" upon logging in. You have access to any file that either: 1) Has your user ID as the owner of the file and the file has the appropriate "owner attribute" bits set (read/write/execute). 2) Has your group ID as the group the file belongs to, and the file has the appropriate "group attribute" bits set (r/w/e). 3) Has the appropriate "world attributes" set (r/w/e). Oh -- I should mention that the passwd file contains your default group, but there is also a second file (/etc/groups, I think) which defines what groups a person belongs to. You can only be IN one group at a time, but you can switch at any time between any of the groups you have permission to belong to. I believe some versions of UNIX allow you to belong to all groups simultaneously, but then it's hard to figure which group # to stamp on a file when you create it. VMS also has extensive (much more extensive than UNIX) groups and file protection schemes. (Access Control Lists, ) But it's much more *complicated* too. With a UNIX-like scheme, you only need one set of "group" attributes, which makes it much easier to implement! Eddie -*- 30849 22-JUL 17:19 General Information RE: SASI Driver (Re: Msg 30795) From: JANG To: KSCALES Hello Ken- Glad to see you are still working on that nice sounding SASI patch.. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but the Heat here in the East really slowed things down.. By the way, I'm still not able to boot into 80 Cols. I tried a wmode on my /TERM and made it into a 80 Col. window but I guess it's not that easy.. how is it done, please ?? Jerr y Angus (JANG) -*- 30898 25-JUL 00:36 General Information RE: SASI Driver (Re: Msg 30849) From: KSCALES To: JANG Please check your mail -- I have sent you a new version of the driver which should solve the problem you encountered. Please let me know how things go. Will give you tips on making /Term an 80 column window after I return from a few days holidays (unless someone else wants to chip in here???) Cheers... / Ken -*- 30904 25-JUL 22:23 General Information RE: SASI Driver (Re: Msg 30898) From: JANG To: KSCALES (NR) OK.. and thanks.. I will get back to you soon .. enjoy your vacation JANG -*- End of Thread. -*- 30856 22-JUL 19:23 General Information Eliminator/ST-4096 From: COLINMCKAY To: OS9UGVP (NR) Hi, Bruce. Just a few further notes with regards to my problem with the ST-4096 hard drive. I am at Ken Scales' house right now. We just put the drive thru the torture test on his system, and it works just fine, so I really don't suspect the drive any more. Ken has a B&B system with an Adaptec 4096 RLL controller. The jumpers set on the drive are the DS1 (drive select 1) and Write Fault jumpers. We formatted the drive several times, and did a lot of copying of files, exactly the same way as I did at home using the Eliminator. (See my previous message for an example of the way that the directory structure was getting messed up.) Have you any idea what the problem is? Checked my power supply (200W) under load, and it seems to be working just fine. Exactly +12V and +5V. Don't have a scope, so couldn't check for noise. Also, could you please explain to me what the write fault and recovery mode jumpers are for? And finally, is there any way to write protect the drive? Some other hard drives have a write protect jumper available. Could be handy sometimes. Thanks a lot for your assistance. Colin McKay. -*- 30857 22-JUL 20:30 General Information CoCo forum vs. OS-9 forum From: EDDIEKUNS To: ALL I noticed an interesting change this weekend. I've been away from Delphi for just over three weeks due to a number of consecutive mishaps and other reasons. I expected to be totally swamped by the number of messages in both SIG's! Well, I noticed that I had just over 400 messages unread in the OS-9 SIG forum, and slightly under 150 in the RSDOS SIG forum! Hey, folks, this is a real switch from when I joined Delphi almost 3 years ago! It's great to see the OS-9 SIG forum so active! I don't know if this behavior is continuing or not, since this is the only time I've looked, but still it's nice! Eddie -*- 30859 22-JUL 21:50 Graphics & Music RE: Who did "VEFIO" ? (Re: Msg 30766) From: TIMKOONCE To: THEFERRET If you read "C", then get Mike Haaland's VEF utilities, which includes a program (with complete source!) to display a VEF picture to the current screen. The method to save a screen is essentially the same, except in reverse . The advantage of Mike's routines is that it includes the code to support Squashed VEF, which provides a significant improvement over standard VEF. Look in the Graphics database to find those utilities. I don't recall the group name offhand. Try "search VEF", then "dir" as a start. - Tim -*- 30861 22-JUL 21:57 Device Drivers RE: COCO2 WORD PROCESSORS! (Re: Msg 30767) From: TIMKOONCE To: TRIX The thing that always bugged me was that all of the supposed WordStar clones were so sorry. The original CP/M WordStar, now well over 10 years old, blows any of those oh-so-recent "clones" out of the water. I'm still impressed at the efficient screen updating of the original. If only the CoCo word processors would learn that, maybe we wouldn't be spending half our time waiting on the d***ed screen updates! - Tim -*- 30867 22-JUL 23:34 Device Drivers RE: COCO2 WORD PROCESSORS! (Re: Msg 30861) From: DWHILL To: TIMKOONCE (NR) I think my favorite WP was a Wordstar clone; I'd always wondered myself why if Wordstar could run in a CP/M environment, why the same couldn't be exactly duplicated in OS-9? Maybe if we could get our hands on the source code...? Why should 64K be a limit, especially when the WP program is manipulating a ASCII file? Couldn't that be paged in and out in 8K or so blocks as needed? Global manipulations of a large text file might get interesting (such as resetting page breaks)... Oughta be a way to do this! --Damon -*- End of Thread. -*- 30862 22-JUL 22:05 General Information RE: Your 2 minute C lesson for today... (Re: Msg 30774) From: TIMKOONCE To: RICKADAMS Rick, I recently got hold of the winners for the most recent International Obfuscated C Code Contest. It's a contest where (if you can beleive it), people TRY to write unreadable C code. They had some good ones in there, such as a Basic interpreter in under 1500 bytes (yes, bytes) of C source, and some other quite impressive feats. All of which deserved to win. The Microware C compiler chokes on every single one, usually in the preprocessor, which apparently only allocates a small buffer for the expanded lines. Needless to say, in order to fit these puppies in under 1536 bytes of source (the size limit for entries), they abuse the preprocessor mightily. Get some interesting crashes when you run these things which have lines which expand in the preprocessor to something like 1000 bytes! - Tim P.S. Of course, I couldn't manage to compile a couple of them even on the Unix systems here . Oh, well. -*- 30864 22-JUL 22:20 General Information RE: Your 2 minute C lesson for today... (Re: Msg 30862) From: EDDIEKUNS To: TIMKOONCE Tim, where could I get a copy of the obfuscated C contest? Eddie -*- 30866 22-JUL 22:26 General Information RE: Your 2 minute C lesson for today... (Re: Msg 30864) From: TIMKOONCE To: EDDIEKUNS If you like, I'll send you a copy via e-mail. I considered uploading it to the data base here, but since none of them will compile under MW C, it didn't seem too useful. Better yet, look on Usenet in alt.sources, or comp.misc.sources, or comp.unix.sources. It usually gets published in all three of those. - Tim -*- 30868 23-JUL 01:25 General Information RE: Your 2 minute C lesson for today... (Re: Msg 30862) From: RICKADAMS To: TIMKOONCE (NR) I SAW some of the entries in the Obfuscated C Code Contest from a few years back, and managed to compile some of them. WHEW! One of them was a program that consisted of the digits of pi, and a few other stray characters here and there... but it was about 99% stuff that looked like "_3.141592[654] & 3.14159..." You get the idea. And the whole source code text was arranged with rather creative white space so that the source was in the SHAPE of a giant pi symbol. The documentation said, "What does this program do? You'll be surprised!"... so I suppose that it DIDN'T print out the value of pi. ;-) Maybe it printed out log e instead? Or the square root of -1? I know, I know, what an imagination I have. ;-) -*- 30891 24-JUL 21:41 General Information RE: Your 2 minute C lesson for today... (Re: Msg 30866) From: EDDIEKUNS To: TIMKOONCE (NR) I'll look in the usenet forums you suggested, but I don't expect much luck. My usenet mail reader is more flaky than not. Do you still have last year's winners around? Eddie -*- End of Thread. -*- 30873 23-JUL 16:06 General Information RE: MAGNAVOX 8 CM 515 (Re: Msg 30704) From: PKW To: DAVEBEAN (NR) Hi, Dave -- You said you wer waiting for an AFFORDABLE OSK machine. How much or little is affordable? Paul -*- 30874 23-JUL 16:08 Programmers Den RE: Speeding up the coco3 (Re: Msg 30705) From: PKW To: NES (NR) Eric, Is the problem with the MM/1 price (which is, I KNOW, pretty darn cheap) that it is too high for what you're getting or is it just out of your cash flow possibilities? Could you better afford it if KLE/IMS offered financing? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this. Paul -*- 30876 23-JUL 18:25 General Information MM/1 From: 1CMR To: PKW (NR) Paul, Just wondering, but... Are you guys just happening to be doing a demo of the MM/1 in Connecticut? > ---Chad -*- 30879 23-JUL 19:08 General Information MM/1 From: RAVENONE To: PKW (NR) Paul, I have a list of questions about the MM/1. I've called Interactive Media Systems several times, but have gotten neither answers to my questions, nor the promised phone call or mail. Thus, I've decided to try the forum. When will the MM/1 be available, that is, when could I purchase one? What is the cost of the system with the I/O board? How much is the 24bit palette board? Does it have genlock? What software is included? What documentation is included, i.e., technical info, or just OS-9 manuals? Does the MM/1 output sound to an amplifier or just to the monitor? Does the MM/1 support non-interlaced graphics with a multi-sync monitor? What graphics chip does the MM/1 use? What is the difference between the 68070 and the 68000? Does the expansion bus have separate 32bit address and data buses? Will the expansion bus work at 25MHz? How much does the expansion bus cost? What size case does the MM/1 alone need? With bus? When will a 68040 upgrade board be available? What companies are producing or porting software for the MM/1? What sort of warranty does the MM/1 come with? Thank you for your time. I'm really looking forward to having my questions answered. --Robert -*- 30908 26-JUL 07:10 General Information RE: MM/1 (Re: Msg 30879) From: MATHOMPSON To: ALL Anybody who is interested on the full lowdown on the specs for the 68070 and VSC ought to check out the file I uploaded to the database. It'll answer most of your questions concerning capabilities and compatibilities,I created straight from copies of the manuals fom, but I ain't telling how I got 'em . - Matt -*- 30915 27-JUL 19:46 General Information RE: MM/1 (Re: Msg 30908) From: DWHILL To: MATHOMPSON Thank you! I've been dying to get my hands on more information on these chips. --Damon -*- End of Thread. -*- 30880 23-JUL 20:21 General Information ST-4096/Eliminator From: COLINMCKAY To: OS9UGVP (NR) Hi, again, Bruce. I called Frank Hogg today, and explained the problem with the ST-4096/Eliminator problem. He explained that the controller can only handle 8 heads, not the Eliminator's 9. He also mentioned that as an interim measure the drive would work formatted with 8 boards. Finally, he mentioned that you had created a daughter board to handle the extra head. He also gave me your phone number, so I will call you later tonight (Monday). I will try calling about 8:00 PM, your time. TTYL. Colin. -*- 30881 23-JUL 20:22 Utilities MS-DOS utility From: RODHARPER To: ALL Is there a utility available for OS9 that will re-format a disk, so that it is readable by a MS-DOS machine ? >>Rod<< -*- 30882 23-JUL 20:23 General Information my previous babbling message From: COLINMCKAY To: OS9UGVP (NR) Whoops. Only meant to type problem once, and that was supposed to be 8 heads. Oh well. Sorry. -*- 30885 24-JUL 02:23 General Information Kings Quest From: RADICAL To: ALL Can anyone tell me what steps are needed to get the Kings Quest to run off the Hard drive? I followed the steps listed in the Sierra instructions, and they did not work. Note, I may have misunderstood something, but I did try to do exactly as they stated. I put the modules on the config disk, but they do not appear on my selection screen, and I do not know what steps should be taken. Thanks Len -*- 30888 24-JUL 18:07 General Information RE: Kings Quest (Re: Msg 30885) From: ZACKSESSIONS To: RADICAL The two most common problems putting KQ3 on HD are 1) not includeing the special modules in your bootlist, and 2) not doing your tOC.txt file correctly. Use os9gen or EZGen to insert the two extra modules, and replace your clock module with the one supplied. Here is my tOC.txt file: d1 s1 v0 v1 d1 s1 v0 v2 v12 d1 s1 v0 v3 v12 d1 s1 v0 v4 v1 v14 d1 s1 v0 v5 v12 v14 d1 s1 v0 v6 v12 d1 s1 v0 v7 v11 d1 s1 v0 v8 v11 d1 s1 v0 v9 v11 Hope this helps some. Zack -*- 30896 24-JUL 22:55 General Information RE: Kings Quest (Re: Msg 30888) From: RADICAL To: ZACKSESSIONS Thanks I will try it. Len -*- 30911 27-JUL 01:11 General Information RE: Kings Quest (Re: Msg 30888) From: RADICAL To: ZACKSESSIONS Zack, that worked fine. Two other dumb questions. Is there a way to run the quest in a window? Do you know how to open the sa pouch of sleep dust? Thanks Len -*- 30913 27-JUL 18:33 General Information RE: Kings Quest (Re: Msg 30911) From: ZACKSESSIONS To: RADICAL (NR) Len, even though I have the game I haven't played it enough to make any comments on doing things like opening pouches of sleep dust, and the like. (Now, If you have a question on how to do something in Liesure Suit Larry ... ) KQ3 runs ONLY in a VDG type window device. If you want to crank it up as a GShell application, there is a file in the Utils lib (by me) which enables you to do that. Zack -*- End of Thread. -*- 30886 24-JUL 05:29 Telcom RE: Osterm (Re: Msg 29264) From: NEWKID To: ZACKSESSIONS Hi Zack Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to your mgs. There have been some changes in my life. I'm still having problems with OSTerm208. I have to use XCom9 to hook-up to Delphi. It seems that everything I do doesn't work. So, for now will continue to use Xcom9 and use Osterm for the rest. Thanks anyway. James -*- 30887 24-JUL 05:31 Telcom RE: Osterm (Re: Msg 29268) From: NEWKID To: AJMLFCO (NR) Thanks for your reply. I have since returned to using XCom9 to work on Delphi. James Mc Ddaniel -*- End of Thread. -*- 30889 24-JUL 19:14 Device Drivers RE: 720K DISK DRIVE (Re: Msg 29979) From: MARTYGOODMAN To: MCIRISH (NR) Belatedly --- let me note that I am glad you determined the drive was bad and got it swapped for a good one! ---marty -*- 30890 24-JUL 21:26 Graphics & Music Ultimuse III From: OS9BERT To: RAGTIMER Is there a new version of Ultimuse III out? I have version 5 (4.5). I noticed someone put a score on the data base with a version of 6. How can I get mine upgraded if this is so. Take care. I'm still waiting to find a decent (and cheap) tone generator for my Clavinova piano! Bert Schneider -*- 30936 28-JUL 01:18 Graphics & Music RE: Ultimuse III (Re: Msg 30890) From: RAGTIMER To: OS9BERT Hi Bert, nice to hear from you. Yes, you would really appreciate 4.6.1, or even 4.6.2. Point-n-shoot file selection (for those LOOOOONG file names) and side-info files (instruments, etc.). All you're missing in those scores is the MIDI-channel-hopper, which I bet nobody has used yet. Anyway, call or write 2nd City and ask for the latest. Yes, you gotta ask nowadays, until our final everything-upgrade, which everyone will get automatically. You want a used FB-01, or need something better? Ever fix that repeating-note problem with the Clav? --mike k -*- 30944 28-JUL 11:09 Graphics & Music RE: Ultimuse III (Re: Msg 30936) From: OS9BERT To: RAGTIMER (NR) I repaired some cables and made some runs shorter. That may have fixed it since I have not seen it (heard it) again. Also, do you have a quick patch so I can get rid of the CR LR in the printer output when I get score prints? Or did you make this an option in the setup portion of the newer versions? I am puting on the finnishing touches of my latest software exploits, MANDEL09. This will be a mandelbrot generation program written totally in C. It will allow you to select an area to zoom in via a graphics cursor and box routine. I hope to complete it soon and then port it over to the MM1. That system running 15 MHz would sure create some great fractals (and you shouldn't have to wait a day or two for an image). Take care. Bert Sschneider ----strike that (extra key hit)---- Bert Schneider (.) (o) U \_____/ -*- End of Thread. -*- 30894 24-JUL 22:27 General Information Shell+ From: MAREK To: ZACKSESSIONS Okay Zack....How does one go about obtaining the "new" version of Shell+? I am drooling already! Or is it only for those who know Ron? -Michael -*- 30897 24-JUL 23:00 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30894) From: ZACKSESSIONS To: MAREK Obviously, you didn't get my point. Only a select few (Level 2 upgrade testers ) have got it. And it it probably won't be released until the upgrade is released. OH, I didn't mention the upgrade, did I? The new version of Shell+ was done explicitly (I think) for the level 2 upgrade. Bug Kev (OS9UGPRES) about it. Zack -*- 30899 25-JUL 01:38 General Information RE: Shell+ (Re: Msg 30897) From: MAREK To: ZACKSESSIONS maybe if _MANY_ of us bug Kev (OS9UGPRES) we might even get it uploaded here... -Michael -*- End of Thread. -*- 30895 24-JUL 22:43 General Information Internet From: DENNYSKALA To: EDDIEKUNS Eddie, Do you know if there is a coco-related news group on Internet? I recently got a hook-in, and have been playing around with it. I have a list wi which contains comp.sys.6809, comp.sys.m68k, comp.sys.m68k.pc, as well as groups for Atari ST, etc. But nothing for Coco. I could swa swear that I saw discussion here regarding a Coco newsgroup. ***** Dennis ***** -*- 30900 25-JUL 18:15 General Information RE: Internet (Re: Msg 30895) From: DODGECOLT To: DENNYSKALA (NR) Yep, there is a file here in the databases describing how to subscribe to the COCO list. Briefly, all you have to do is send a message to listserv@pucc.BITNET containing: subscribe coco I think that is all that is needed, tho I subscribed a while ago and I may have forgotten something... -Mike -*- 30905 26-JUL 00:18 General Information RE: Internet (Re: Msg 30895) From: EDDIEKUNS To: DENNYSKALA (NR) There's a CoCo mailing list on the internet. Send the following message to listserv@pucc.princeton.edu subscribe CoCo Your Real Name index coco index os9 help (The above 4 lines) and that will subscribe you to the "CoCo" mailing list, send you the 2 indexes to the 2 archives, and send you a short help file. To send a message to the list, you send to coco@pucc.princeton.edu. So, it's there! It's just not part of Usenet. Eddie -*- End of Thread. -*- 30901 25-JUL 19:57 Telcom OSTerm & Delphi From: RODHARPER To: ALL I have been having one heck of a time trying to log onto Delphi with OSTerm. I have set my Madem to 8N1 and 7E1 and no luck yet, all I get is a lot of Garbage or partial statements displayed to the screen. I have not had this trouble with any other BBS or OLS. Any ideas ?? >>Rod<< ps....Right now I am using UltimaTerm set at 7E1. -*- 30902 25-JUL 20:33 Telcom RE: OSTerm & Delphi (Re: Msg 30901) From: DODGECOLT To: RODHARPER Well, it has been a while since I played with OSTerm, but you might try 7 bits SPACE parity. his seems to work pretty well through TELENET, tho I think you still need even parity through TYMNET. (BTW, I use a term program of my own design now. I think your problem with OSTerm _could_ be that it doesn't strip the high bit off each incoming char.) -Mike -*- 30903 25-JUL 22:18 Telcom RE: OSTerm & Delphi (Re: Msg 30902) From: CTL56 To: DODGECOLT I have found that using 7 Mark 1 works when logging in while using OSTerm. -*- End of Thread. -*- 30910 27-JUL 00:44 Telcom OS9BBS From: EMTWO To: ALL David Beyer, the author of OS9BBS, has decided to put the BBS into the hands of the general public. He will still be supporting it, since it's not complete yet, but he wants help on the unfinished parts. This weekend I will be uploading the primary BBS files. These are the files that Zack Sessions, Allen Huffman and I already have. Then, Dave will release the source for the checkevents and monitor modules. He doesn't want to give out the source for the parts of the BBS that are already done. The first thing we need to get cracking on is the transfers sections. Then mail tossing for the FIDO option. I will periodically upload any updates, but there is another BBS that will have the updates also. That BBS is called 'The Guild Info-Net,' and can be reached at 1-407-777-8803. There is an account already setup by the name 'BBSFILES,' and a SIG called 'OS9BBS.' The SIG messages will have the BBSfiles and updates attached to them. ************* Note:The Password for the account 'bbsfiles' is 'ONLINE' **** Plus, once the transfer modules start to get written, I will also have the updates at the OS9BBS Alpha Site #1, 1-407-677-8865. P.s. Anybody know how I can convince my modem to accept 300 baud callers? Dave's modem does this, but mine will disconnect you as soon as it determines that your baud is 300??? 1200 & 2400 work fine, but many new users have only 300 baud, and I feel it's my fault that they can't look at my board. Any help would be appreciated. P.s.s. The daily thunder storms in Orlando have been getting pretty ruff, so if the BBS isn't answering, it's because we had a power loss, and I'm not around to reboot the system. Paul Fitch OS9BBS Alpha Site #1 SYSOP 1-407-677-8865 -*- 30912 27-JUL 01:21 General Information OSK'er magazine From: JENG To: ALL To anyone that hasn't subscribed to the OSK'er Magazine, I recommend that they should as soon as possible because the first issue is an excellent premiere issue! It really fills the void with the other publications: Rainbow, Clipboard, MOTD and 68 Micro Journal. I really commend those involved with it. I'm hoping a disk subsription will be available! JENG -*- 30914 27-JUL 18:36 Patches Serial Mouse From: KHB To: ALL Help. Is anyone out there using Bruce Isted's serial mouse driver? I can't seem to get it to work right. I am using a Tandy serial mouse. It works if you move the mouse one step at a time, but if you move it any faster (a "ballistic" move) it doesn't move. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks, Ken Brunell -*- 30941 28-JUL 01:51 Patches RE: Serial Mouse (Re: Msg 30914) From: TRIX To: KHB (NR) Count yourself lucky. I tried the mouse patch (to put a Microsoft mouse on my 6552 [Eliminator]) and my machine wouldn't boot. I'm still puzzling over that one. -John. -*- End of Thread. -*- 30916 27-JUL 20:20 Telcom Archives? From: SPIKE134 To: ALL I am curious to find out what these files called archives are? Every time I try to download one in binary format, text of course, I can't read it. I know I can't read a binary text file, but is these a program or hints that would help me to download such a file? KE134) -*- 30923 27-JUL 22:34 Telcom RE: Archives? (Re: Msg 30916) From: GREGL To: SPIKE134 (NR) An archive is a file that is used to store one or more files in compressed form. These are easily recognizable since they will have an extension of .AR or .PAK. To extract the files from these archives you will need the appropriate archive utility - AR and PAK are the two most common and both are available in the Utilities section of the databases. -- Greg -*- End of Thread. -*- 30917 27-JUL 21:05 Utilities gshell+ From: AARONS To: MINIFREAK (NR) Thanks Randy, 1) I found the save utility on the back side (B) of the Multi-Vue disk (it was merged with Pmpts). Aaron -*- 30918 27-JUL 21:07 Patches GSHELL+ From: AARONS To: ZACKSESSIONS Thanks Zack, 1) I found the save utility on the back side (B) of the Multi-Vue disk (it was merged with Pmpts). 2) Is there a mod to change the background and foreground colors on gshell and tandy shells for Gshell+ ?? I like white characters on blue background (I find a dark background much easier on my eyes). Aaron -*- 30924 27-JUL 22:37 Patches RE: GSHELL+ (Re: Msg 30918) From: ZACKSESSIONS To: AARONS (NR) Changing the palettes is available with stock GShell. Just click on the "Tandy" menu icon, and fire up the "Control" item. When that window comes up, it will be apparent what you need to do. I, too, prefer a dark background with a light foreground. Remember, to save your env file after making the changes! Zack -*- End of Thread. -*- 30919 27-JUL 21:08 Utilities ed From: AARONS To: DODGECOLT (NR) On Ed I can't see the cusor. How do I change the colors ? Thanks, AARONS -*- 30920 27-JUL 21:10 General Information windows From: AARONS To: DALEP (NR) Good article - CoCo3 does windows; but I still have a few questions. 1) When I change the color of the foreground color the cursor changes to that color but the text character does not, when using wcreate or display on a window. The text characters change to another color I didn't select (orange). Why? Is this normal? Palettes are at default (prn 0 thru prn 15). Montype = r 2) I'm using Gshell+ ctrl + break (eof) will erase the window if in a shell created from the tandy icon on the menu bar or shell created by pressing S on the keyboard; but will not erase the window if created while in one of these two shells or if iniz, display,or create one from a procedure file. Am I forgetting something? What's going on?? Aaron -*- 30925 27-JUL 22:43 General Information RE: windows (Re: Msg 30920) From: GREGL To: AARONS (NR) The palettes used for the foreground, background, border, and cursor take a little getting used to. As a general rundown, there are 16 palette registers numbered 0 through 15. OS-9 splits this into two halves: 0 through 7 and 8 through 15. The color of the cursor is determined by the palette number of the foreground and the color of the text is determined by the palette number of the foreground plus eight. For example, if you set the foreground color to Palette 3, the cursor will use Palette 3 and the text will use Palette 3+8 or 11 (0B hex). So if you want to change both the text and cursor colors, change the palette number for the foreground to one of the preset palettes (0 to 7) instead of the actual color stored in that palette register. Of course, if you really want to you can change the color value stored in the palette register - but remember the above mechanism for doing so. -- Greg -*- End of Thread. -*- 30921 27-JUL 21:11 Utilities ed From: AARONS To: DODGECOLT (NR) Mike, 1) Now I can't see the header at the top of the screen. 2) What palettes are the cursor and heading? I'm having problems understanding seting the colors, for example: When I change the color of the foreground color the cursor changes to that color but the text character does not, when using wcreate or display on a window. The text characters change to another color I didn't select (orange). Why? Is this normal? Palettes are at default (prn 0 thru prn 15). Montype = r 3) I'm using Gshell+ Aaron -*- 30922 27-JUL 22:24 Telcom osterm 2.0.8 From: CAPTSWOOSH To: ALL hey gang when i use osterm 2.0.8 on delphi i thoughtthe protocal was 8 n 1 thats what i use using other terminal pgms but using osterm its 7 m 1 any idea?? Ron byram -*- 30926 28-JUL 00:40 General Information RE: our RiBBS test site (Re: Msg 30281) From: RAGTIMER To: PAULSENIURA (NR) Say Paul, just to update you and anyone else listening -- I'm sorry that my reports on the Get/Put buffer syststem were taken to mean that it is flakey or buggy. No, it is just UNFORGIVING -- if you create an already-existing buffer, or delete a non-existant one, the system gets cancer. BUT -- once I debugged my code so as to NEVER do the above infractions, I have had NO PROBLEMS with my uh, constructive abuse of the GPBuff system. I haven't crashed Umuse3 thjis way (nor has hardly anyone else) since the first release of Virtual Memory. Just wanted to clear this up in case others were afraid to use it. -*- 30943 28-JUL 03:06 General Information Multi-pak Upgrade?? From: SCG To: ALL I've heard recently from a reasonably good source that multi-paks model number 26-3124 do NOT need to be upgraded(pal). is this true anyone know???? If its not true maybe one of you good folks could let me know what I'm in for in upgrading this monster!? Thanks Steve -*- 30945 28-JUL 11:20 Programmers Den Program Development Tool From: OS9BERT To: ALL I have a great idea for those CoCo owners who have a speech pak and do some software development work. If you are into certain graphics routines and you want to check out the status of certain variables or where you are in the routine you are coding, just insert a line like the following (if you are using C for examle): system("echo XYZ function called >/ssp"); This is assuming you have the driver and descriptor (should be here on DELPHI) for the speech pak and you have made the mods that will enable it to run with a 2MHz system. I find this is much faster than having multiple windows or printouts. Bert Schneider -*- 30946 28-JUL 11:29 General Information Cheap 68000 System From: OS9BERT To: ALL Vesta Technology, INC. (303) 422-8088 has a new 68000 single board computer for sale that costs only $295 in single quantities!! It is only 8" x 4" and comes with a 16MHz 68000, socketing for up to 128K of battery-backed RAM and up to 256K or ROM. A battery-backed real-time clock,, a parallel printer port, ports for a 4 x 5 keypad, a 4 line by 40 character LCD display, two seral ports, and all bus signals are carried to an expansion connector to support expansion boards with a total of 16 meg of RAM, A/D and D/A cards, etc. It comes with Forth-83 development language and code can be downloaded to the board via one of the serial ports. If there are any hard core hackers out there, this would be a chance to get a 68000 system cheap. Bert Schneider -*- FORUM>Reply, Add, Read, "?" or Exit>