#: 6927 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 24-Sep-90 16:31:32 Sb: #Atari ST Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Bud - Question on Minix & the ST: is the ST version also restricted to a 64K process space (I believe the PC version of Minix was)? If yes, then OS9 does provide a clear advantage. If no, then both are probably a slick solution, as there is active development in both camps. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7067 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Sep-90 10:07:40 Sb: #6927-#Atari ST Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) 68000 Minix isn't restricted to a 64k process space. Actually, 8086 Minix has a 64K instruction space and a 64K data space in its latest incarnation (I believe). Unfortunately, since the ST doesn't have hardware memory management, and Minix C doesn't produce PIC, so they have to go through all sorts of gyrations to relocate programs in memories and do context switches. Anyhow, Minix is a lot cheaper than OS-9, which means a lot to a hobbyist. For commercial or industrial applications, OS-9 wins hands down. There is 1 Reply. #: 7094 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-90 15:50:36 Sb: #7067-#Atari ST Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Bud - Good info. Sounds like early versions of BSD stuff (2.1 64K I&D spaces).. Too bad about the non-position independence.. is it reentrant at least? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7229 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 06-Oct-90 12:41:26 Sb: #7094-#Atari ST Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) 'Tis reentrant. The kernel is mostly C. wrh There is 1 Reply. #: 7246 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 08-Oct-90 09:29:07 Sb: #7229-#Atari ST Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X) Bud - Are you saying that it's reentrant by virtue of the fact that it's written in C, or were those two separate pieces of info? C is not inherently reentrant... the compiler must be written to support it. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7335 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Oct-90 12:54:16 Sb: #7246-Atari ST Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) I'm saying it's reentrant because it is the kernel of a multi-tasking operating system and pretty well _has_ to be reentrant. The kernel is reentrant. The kernel is written in C. Therefore, the C compiler can produce reentrant code. wrh #: 6975 S4/MIDI and Music 25-Sep-90 22:34:53 Sb: #6704-#midi help Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X) Lester, Well, we COULD be delivering MM/1s by now, but we have FCC approval to worry our heads about. Things look good in that domain though, and we should be in real good shape by the fest. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7053 S4/MIDI and Music 29-Sep-90 12:39:42 Sb: #6975-#midi help Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) I got the info about the MM/1s in the mail recently--looks great! I will be watching your progress with considerable interest! There is 1 Reply. #: 7083 S4/MIDI and Music 30-Sep-90 19:29:33 Sb: #7053-#midi help Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X) Lester, Thanks for the kind words! Do keep up with us! And give a call, if you like! We have a big MIDI contingent gearing up. Paul "Contingent" means buch of eager developers. There is 1 Reply. #: 7284 S4/MIDI and Music 11-Oct-90 00:54:15 Sb: #7083-#midi help Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, a "bunch" of eager MIDI developers? Sounds rather interesting. I am beginning to see that the IBM MIDI market is already pretty saturated and just might be interested in jumping on your bandwagon. What is up? There is 1 Reply. #: 7315 S4/MIDI and Music 12-Oct-90 23:28:30 Sb: #7284-#midi help Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X) Lester, Actually, the IBM MIDI market is NOT saturated if you discount all the MEDIOCRE stuff they have!! I suggest you give a call to the DC IMS office at 202 232 4246 sometime. We can talk MIDI then! Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7344 S4/MIDI and Music 13-Oct-90 15:20:10 Sb: #7315-#midi help Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, what hours for the DC IMS office (and what do those letters stand for)? I suppose one person's definition of mediocre differs from another. I see a lot of expensive sequencers ($100-500) out there. I've tried selling a PC version of Lyra and everyone expects to have real time recording and score printing as well for only $49.95. An impossible situation for a developer! There are 2 Replies. #: 7357 S4/MIDI and Music 14-Oct-90 09:58:34 Sb: #7344-#midi help Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X) Lester, Nice to see you back! IMS stands for Interactive Media Systems ... with their offices in Washington, DC. Hope you and Paul can get together on a project. Your talents would be a welcomed addition to the growing list of software developers for the MM/1. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 7372 S4/MIDI and Music 14-Oct-90 23:50:29 Sb: #7357-midi help Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Hey Steve! I haven't been gone--just not a whole lot of activity on this sig until lately! I talked to Paul yesterday and things sound interesting. I'm keeping my ears to the ground! #: 7423 S4/MIDI and Music 16-Oct-90 17:27:20 Sb: #7344-#midi help Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X) Lester, Well, if they want real time recording, give it to them and charge! Mayabe you could have a $49.95 version that omits that feature, but have a Lyra Plus that you can get as a trade-in for $49.95 extra. IMS stands for Interactive Media Systems, Inc. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7446 S4/MIDI and Music 16-Oct-90 21:19:36 Sb: #7423-#midi help Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, good idea (about making real time recording an extra)! The only problem is that the Lyra file format does not lend itself well to that type of data. Lyra expects a highly structured single note per track format. While you could force fit real time stuff to that format, the result would be difficult to edit. There is 1 Reply. #: 7482 S4/MIDI and Music 17-Oct-90 21:47:05 Sb: #7446-midi help Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X) Lester, Well, I certainly did not anticipate that such a design would be EASY! It sounds as though your Lyra format is pretty clean and simple, and real time recording is NEVER that! Paul #: 7004 S3/Languages 26-Sep-90 18:11:52 Sb: #apl Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: all For those of you who wish to try out apl, recently converted and uploaded by Greg Morse, I uploaded a font and startup file for use with the coco3. Thanks, Greg; and thanks to Mike Haaland for the mvcanvas system that helped out also. Missing are the characters for compression and expansion functions, missing from my apl textbook. Can someone help out here? Thanks, tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 7029 S3/Languages 27-Sep-90 17:45:46 Sb: #7004-#apl Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) Where is Greg's APL available ? Sounds interesting. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7090 S3/Languages 01-Oct-90 06:42:01 Sb: #7029-#apl Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X) Paul, Its in DL3, Languages. One file is the docs and executable, and the other is source code, in assembly. tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 7099 S3/Languages 01-Oct-90 17:01:00 Sb: #7090-#apl Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) Thanks, I found IAPL and started playing around with it. Very different, not that I understand it. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7198 S3/Languages 05-Oct-90 06:37:38 Sb: #7099-#apl Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X) It takes a while to get used to apl. A text book is essential, then try out some of the exercises you see there. tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 7212 S3/Languages 05-Oct-90 21:21:37 Sb: #7198-#apl Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) If I were to buy one textbook for starts, what would you recommend? Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7247 S3/Languages 08-Oct-90 10:16:18 Sb: #7212-#apl Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X) Paul, I couldn't recommend the one text I have. It's old, and as I just recently discovered, is quite incomplete. See if Greg Morse has any current texts. Sorry for the negative response, but I don't want to do you a diservice. tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 7260 S3/Languages 09-Oct-90 17:25:47 Sb: #7247-apl Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) A negative response is still a response, thanks. #: 7032 S15/Hot Topics 27-Sep-90 19:15:04 Sb: #MM/1 Software Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, What software beyond Professional OSK will come with the MM/1? Thanks, -J There is 1 Reply. #: 7037 S15/Hot Topics 27-Sep-90 19:44:33 Sb: #7032-#MM/1 Software Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Jay, You may wish to browse the transcript of the MM/1 conference Paul held a while back. He mentions several software item that will be available. Tho .. enough time has past that may be Paul should update us ....Paul??? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 7187 S15/Hot Topics 04-Oct-90 22:33:47 Sb: #7037-#MM/1 Software Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, We've got a few things planned to announce at the Fest. Plus, there are a few things we can't announce yet. One of them is a multimedia thingie from the Amiga world. Some things I CAN mention: an IFF viewer for OS-9, using the same IFF specs used in CD-I as far as possible on the MM/1. Also, an LHARC dearcing program that lets you get Amiga sound and graphics files. Lessee, now we have Tetris on the MM/1, as well as Zack Sessions' Solitaire game, and the maze program here. There's some other stuff, too, but I gotta run! Paul There are 2 Replies. #: 7188 S15/Hot Topics 04-Oct-90 22:42:40 Sb: #7187-MM/1 Software Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Sounds like things are humming along! Keep us posted. Stevev #: 7222 S15/Hot Topics 06-Oct-90 00:33:46 Sb: #7187-#MM/1 Software Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Hi Paul... I just called and ordered my MM/1 Extended System. This system includes the second board, right? How much memory will fit on this board? How much would it cost me to bump the machine up to 3 meg? Any XT type keyboard is ok? Will any PC style mouse work (Logitech, Microsoft, etc)? How is FCC certification coming? When I phoned, the operator told me a couple days more. Is this true, or are we looking at a few months more? After you get FCC approval, you'll start producing and shipping - how many people are in line ahead of me? Enough questions for ya yet? There are 2 Replies. #: 7228 S15/Hot Topics 06-Oct-90 11:08:15 Sb: #7222-#MM/1 Software Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen; If I'm reading things right, you can have 1Meg, 3Meg or 9Meg depending on whether you use 1 or 4M SIMMS. One bank of memory on the MB, and 2 SIMM slots on the I/O board would give you the above combos of memory. For reference, the local electronics supermart here (Fry's) has these latest prices : 1Meg x 8 80ns SIMMS - $49 4Meg x 8 80ns SIMMS - $295 (and dropping) 101 key Atex keyboard - $49 Logictech serial mouse - $79 Serial mice and trackballs from $49 to $129, depending. ...Jim There is 1 Reply. #: 7230 S15/Hot Topics 06-Oct-90 22:30:49 Sb: #7228-MM/1 Software Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X) Hi Jim... Thanks for the info. Mem prices aren't as bad as they were for a while there. #: 7314 S15/Hot Topics 12-Oct-90 23:27:16 Sb: #7222-#MM/1 Software Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Glen, Second board is included, memory upgrade around $160, tested and guaranteed. XT keyboards OK. PC Style powered serial mouse needed, ala Logitech. Some Microsoft mice may not work, I understand. FCC is fine. the LABportion is only a few days more, and then there is the INTERMINABLE paperwork delay (read, three weeks). We've got enough to do in the meantime. We have many people ahead of you. I fully expect to be busy until February with our orders, although people who have put down deposits get first dibs. Paul There are 2 Replies. #: 7326 S15/Hot Topics 13-Oct-90 09:02:55 Sb: #7314-#MM/1 Software Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, Can you give us a comprehensive software list with some names on it? I'd really appreciate it! Colin There is 1 Reply. #: 7422 S15/Hot Topics 16-Oct-90 17:25:37 Sb: #7326-#MM/1 Software Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X) Colin, SOON! The software list will come out right before the software comes out. Strategic planning and avoidance of Murphyism are the reasons for the delay in releasing info. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7443 S15/Hot Topics 16-Oct-90 20:43:40 Sb: #7422-#MM/1 Software Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Grrrr. I understand, but patience isn't one of my better traits! BTW, there is an ongoing discussion on UUCP news about the MM/1 on the Amiga newsgroup. Somebody posted that a friend had shown them some specs on a new computer and he described the MM/1. Another guy proceeded to tell him he was 'stupid' because the 68070 doesn't exist, etc. Other users then corrected HIM and gave some info on the MM/1. It's a very interesting conversation. Too bad my school's computer won't allow posting, or I'd inform them all! Colin There is 1 Reply. #: 7481 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 21:45:56 Sb: #7443-MM/1 Software Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X) Colin, Somebody at Motorola told me that someone else at Motorola was upset at Signetics' choice of 68070 as the name of their chip! As you have seen, it causes some confusion. If you would like some extra brochures, just give a call at 202 232 4246! Paul #: 7369 S15/Hot Topics 14-Oct-90 23:47:39 Sb: #7314-#MM/1 Software Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Hi Paul... Thanks for the reply. I guess I should phone and make sure the extra memory is installed before my system is shipped? By the sounds of it, there's no rush, though. Could be months before I see one, I guess? There is 1 Reply. #: 7424 S15/Hot Topics 16-Oct-90 17:30:26 Sb: #7369-#MM/1 Software Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X) Not months! I'd say about a month before we really slosh through the backorders. We should be shipping withing a couple of weeks of FCC approval. Actually, I think that the memory upgrade is something you COULD do yourself. If WE do it, you'll get a good price and a warranty on the part. Just let us know through a letter to IMS, 238 Catawba, Davidson NC 28036. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7550 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 01:06:36 Sb: #7424-MM/1 Software Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Hi Paul... A month! Sounds much better. I'll call and make sure the mem is installed before shipping. I don't have much spare time to chase around looking for memory prices. Got a company to run, ya know... #: 7039 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 27-Sep-90 21:11:37 Sb: #Rdisk Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Paul - you'll have to add /d2 to your bootfile. That would require using config or os9gen. How many disk drives do you have? It'll be pretty easy with two. Let us know. Loading in system modules (device descriptors, drivers) after boot is a bad idea on the coco because it allocates "blocks" of memory 8K at a time. So even loading one little 50-byte descriptor consumes over 8000 bytes in the system's 64K map. This lowers the number of processes and windows that you can have going at one time, and can also easily prevent programs like GShell from being able to look at the modules it wants to. Ummm. This gets a little complicated, but if you simply place all devices you intend to use in your bootfile, you'll avoid many strange things . best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7078 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 30-Sep-90 18:03:42 Sb: #7039-#Rdisk Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Well, I have 3 disk drives, 35 tracks each. One is a 5-1/4", the other two are 3" Amdek drives in a single package, each configured as 35 tracks; the 5-1/4" is /d0, the others, /d1, & /d2. I found out that editing /d0/modules/bootlist.mv to contain d2_35s.dd module doesn't work. So I've got a bit of homework to do, make some mistakes, and learn sumpin' in the process. -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7089 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 01-Oct-90 00:15:07 Sb: #7078-#Rdisk Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Paul - ah, the old Amdek drives! Almost got some way back when. After you added d2_35s.dd to your "bootlist.mv" file, did you then use os9gen? Have you ever used os9gen or config? (asking to find out which one you feel more comfortable with, if either) Yah on the mistakes... they're the best teachers ! There are 2 Replies. #: 7179 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 04-Oct-90 17:33:41 Sb: #7089-#Rdisk Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Well, I did it! I got /d2 to work from the MV screen. Had to edit BUILDMV so that d2_35S.DD got copied. Made a new mv #2 disk and it worked out fine. If I am catching on to what is happening, buildmv copies selected files already in memory from the initial OS9 system disk. Then it generates a bootable OS9 type procedure on track 34 using OS9GEN and creates a bootlist.mv besides. This is necessary because there cannot be any uncontiguous sectors during the mv boot which would occur if one tried to add a module to a previously made boot disk as I tried to do initially. -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7189 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 04-Oct-90 23:37:07 Sb: #7179-Rdisk Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Paul - sounds like you've got it to me! I do know that the Save command is hidden in with another command on the MV disk, so it sounds right. Yep, the os9boot must be contiguous, as there is no RBF manager around when you boot , and the simple Boot module disk driver knows only to get sequential sectors. And as you said, the main os9p1/boot/rel code is placed on track 34 (since we don't have it in ROM). You're rocking now! thx for the update - kev #: 7180 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 04-Oct-90 17:38:15 Sb: #7089-#Rdisk Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) ps: what is the module which is loaded when first the shell command is selected from the MV menu? I believe I'd want to have this loaded automatically on boot-up since I select that option straight-away. -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7190 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 04-Oct-90 23:38:49 Sb: #7180-Rdisk Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Paul - hmmm. I can't think of what that could be. Doesn't seem like there'd need to be anything loaded to run the shell menu item. So got me! Perhaps an mdir would show you what got loaded? #: 7049 S3/Languages 28-Sep-90 23:27:55 Sb: #APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: TOM, 70215,1130 (X) Tom - You are first again. I recall years ago you were one of the first if not the first people to use XCOM9, now you are the first that I know of to do anything with the IAPL!. I would like to enclose your fonts on the disk I send to the international society in the UK. Is that ok? also where are these files? also did you need to modify the source? if not how did you handle underlined characters? In answer to your question I thought that table 4.1 in the docs gav all the char mappings. You might also check the vt220.txt file in dl6 to see if that answers the question. else i will get back to you There is 1 Reply. #: 7091 S3/Languages 01-Oct-90 06:48:52 Sb: #7049-#APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Hi Greg, Sure, enclose the fonts in your distribution. There was no need to change the source to iapl; I mapped the lower case coco3 font, as well as the other characters such as # to their apl versions. I did nothing with the underline; Should I have? I'll have to use the system more to find out what's going on. The problem I had with compression and expansion was not Table 4.1, but what does the apl character look like. I'll check vt220.txt file to get that. Thanks. My old apl textbook made no mention of those two functions. Thanks, tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 7105 S3/Languages 01-Oct-90 22:09:52 Sb: #7091-#APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) Tom - upon re-reading the vt220 font file does not refer to compression and expansion, but to slash} and slash bar etc. anyway previous info should have defined this for you. Yes there may be aproblem with the coco underlined chars. These chars are not needed by IAPL but they are nice to have for completeness. The vt220 unfortunately does not have 128 downloadable chars, only 94. therefore I had to map the apl char as in #AV to a vt220 version, so the hex value of say a quad internal to the pgm is not the same as the one sent to the vt220. That should not present a problem for cocos if your font just uses the vt220 char not the internal one. The problem comes in the underlined chars. since I didn't ha}ive room for 128 apl chars in a 94 char downloadable font, i omitted the undelined ones. when IAPL/os9 wishes to output an underlined char it outputs a "set underline mode" cmd string, then the normal char, then the "set normal mode" cmd string. This is not compatible with a coco i expect. The best thing would be for you to upload to me a defn of the font you have created similar to table 4.1 but giving the hex value you use, then I can incorporate the font into the pgm itself. (PS do you have the #AV vector map in your textbook?) If not I will upload to you by mail. Then we can do it right {_for the coco. There are 2 Replies. #: 7130 S3/Languages 02-Oct-90 17:48:54 Sb: #7105-#APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) The APL fonts look good; the only thing I found annoying was running the demos that came with IAPL with the fonts. The demos have lowercase letters in them that are meant to stay letters. How hard would it be to retain the ASCII lowercase codes and put the special APL characters on the coco ALT keys? Just curious. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7218 S3/Languages 05-Oct-90 23:31:12 Sb: #7130-APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X) in the vt220 you can have both on output, since I expanded the vt220 char set by 94 chars (total=128+94). on input you have to hit the ^T (or the equivalent FK on the coco) to cause lower case letters to be treated as text rather than apl input. I dont know what the coco does. I thought that Tom said he used the coco lower csase font to map apl chars, in which case hitting ^T will get you one or the other but not both. Try it and let me know. please. #: 7199 S3/Languages 05-Oct-90 06:44:50 Sb: #7105-#APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Greg, let me digest your message. I'll show you my character set map later, but it is simply a mapping of table 4.1 to the coco fonts. By the way, your definition of the compression and expansion characters was sufficient for me to complete the table 4.1 to coco3 mapping. It seems by text was mid 70's vintage, based on apl/360 (!) and lacked two of the iapl functions. By playing around, it was easy to discern what the performed. I think the underlined mode is not completely necessary, but you're right; for complete ness it should be included. tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 7219 S3/Languages 05-Oct-90 23:33:51 Sb: #7199-#APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) Tom - ok will wait for reply. BTW i have found a real dearth of apl books here. Judging from the IAPL newsletter I get the situation in england is MUCH better. I am not much of apl pgmer myself. and here I was with this obsolete textbook trying to test out my interpreter. yech! There is 1 Reply. #: 7248 S3/Languages 08-Oct-90 10:18:49 Sb: #7219-#APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Greg, According to the coco os9 manual, underlining is turned on by $1f22 and off by $1f23. Did you imply that all I have to do is change a constant string in iapl to make it coco compatible? tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 7340 S3/Languages 13-Oct-90 14:48:00 Sb: #7248-#APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) If so then yes. I have the strings}i null terminated so you would make underline a 3 char string. look at offset $FD for the normal string ($9B,$30,$6D in vt220, and at offset $105 for $9B,$34,$6D for underline. There is 1 Reply. #: 7379 S3/Languages 15-Oct-90 09:31:59 Sb: #7340-#APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Greg, That should be easy enough, (to make iapl underlining work with the coco3). Thanks. It looks like I couldn't reassemble the package anyhow because I don't have a macro-assembler. Manually expanding is out of the question. I did that once, and am convinced I never want to again. tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 7390 S3/Languages 15-Oct-90 21:08:15 Sb: #7379-#APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) OK TOM. Maube the easiest thing is for me to re-assemble it. thats $1f22 for und line ON and $1f23 for OFF? There is 1 Reply. #: 7417 S3/Languages 16-Oct-90 12:09:19 Sb: #7390-#APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Greg, NO, no, nein, non, tidak! Lets not have two of that monster floating around! I think I can just put together a debug patch file, or ipatch to customize it for cocoists. Much cheaper in terms of storage. Thanks anyway. Whatever I put together will be shared with the community of course. tom n There is 1 Reply. #: 7441 S3/Languages 16-Oct-90 20:16:16 Sb: #7417-APL FONT FOR COCO Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X) "Tidak"? OK i could probably put a single "machine type" byte in the pgm and execute slightly different code, but having a patch file is probably even easier. BTW where do they keep "modpatch" on this sig? I have tried a "dir mod*.*" on most dl's with no luck. only modpat.txt in the coco dl. #: 7059 S3/Languages 29-Sep-90 22:41:53 Sb: #c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: all Hey,anyone been having any problems with the getime call in C lately? I have.Does anyone know how to get seconds from it? I'm trying to write a random number generator and all I get is 0. can anyone help me? just wondering, ANDY T. There are 2 Replies. #: 7063 S3/Languages 29-Sep-90 23:29:53 Sb: #7059-#c_problem Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) getime() works fine for me. Seconds are in the t_second field as defined in the sgtbuf in time.h. I'm wondering. Why write a random number generator when we already have one inthe Krieder lib? Zack There is 1 Reply. #: 7074 S3/Languages 30-Sep-90 17:41:02 Sb: #7063-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) Krieder lib? you mean on cis? Well I guess I've got to look before I torture myself like that.thanks Zack! ANDY T. There is 1 Reply. #: 7075 S3/Languages 30-Sep-90 17:44:55 Sb: #7074-#c_problem Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) Check the Utilities lib (I think) for a file called clib.ar. Carl Krieder wrote a replacement library for the C Compiler which includes several functions which should have been in the original. Zack There is 1 Reply. #: 7080 S3/Languages 30-Sep-90 19:14:03 Sb: #7075-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) ZACK, Me again,what parameters do I call it with? HELP! ANDY T. There is 1 Reply. #: 7087 S3/Languages 30-Sep-90 21:53:12 Sb: #7080-#c_problem Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) You're talking about the rand.c file, right? I don't know, I haven't looked at it. As I mentioned in a previous message, what you found is not what I was talking about. Apparently what you found is a program (maybe?) which generates random numbers? Does it have a main() function or a rand() function? There is 1 Reply. #: 7115 S3/Languages 02-Oct-90 00:43:09 Sb: #7087-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) oh,it's rand() all right, is there any way i can get that clib file with CTERM? There is 1 Reply. #: 7126 S3/Languages 02-Oct-90 16:12:22 Sb: #7115-#c_problem Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) I am unfamiliar with CTERM. I assume this is the program you mentioned which supports only ASCII downloads. If so, then you can't download clib.ar. There is 1 Reply. #: 7160 S3/Languages 03-Oct-90 17:55:41 Sb: #7126-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) well, if you are unfamilliar with CTERM look it up in library 7:telecom after you look at it tell me if you suggest any freeware that i can download that does any better. ANDY There is 1 Reply. #: 7171 S3/Languages 03-Oct-90 22:17:11 Sb: #7160-#c_problem Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) I already have at least 5 different OS9 based term programs and really don't have any reason (or time, sorry) to look at any others. Do you have an RS232 interface? If so I would suggest OSTerm. If it's not in the libs, I'll be happy to upload it. Zack There is 1 Reply. #: 7181 S3/Languages 04-Oct-90 19:24:33 Sb: #7171-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) ZACK, yes I run off of a RS-rs232 program pack,osterm?don't think I've seen that one here (the limited time i've been here). If i need to get it from you do you garantee there's no VIRUS in it (grin). There is 1 Reply. #: 7184 S3/Languages 04-Oct-90 21:12:23 Sb: #7181-#c_problem Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) Well, let's put it this way--the author of OSTerm has done various other worthwhile utilities for OS-9/6809 (and I hope he will do some OS-9/68K stuff, too), and they all seem to work well. I think I'd trust him. (In fact, I do--at least once a day, when I use OSTerm.) There is 1 Reply. #: 7208 S3/Languages 05-Oct-90 17:51:27 Sb: #7184-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) o.k. so if I need it (yes),and if it isn't here (if it is its hiding) might i suggest the person that uploads it uploads a NON-ar version? extreamly curious, ANDY T. There is 1 Reply. #: 7240 S3/Languages 07-Oct-90 21:53:58 Sb: #7208-c_problem Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) You could suggest that, but I would guess that you wouldn't get far with that suggestion. As the long-ago poster of a package that required about half a dozen or so files, I know first-hand that folks don't much appreciate the hassle of having to download that much stuff, especially when it can be logically grouped together as need be. (For that matter, one could create and feed to AR a tar file, which would let one preserve directory structure in the stuff to be uncrated.) You'll be much better off downloading the AR utility. #: 7097 S3/Languages 01-Oct-90 16:04:30 Sb: #7059-#c_problem Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) Andy - Show us your code segment, and we'll be able to provide more specific help. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7116 S3/Languages 02-Oct-90 00:55:06 Sb: #7097-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Well Pete, I already foolishly erased the part I was having problems with,but,I think I have a copy somewhere,hmmm,no I guess not,well, it went something like- struct sgtbuf *buffer; main() { int ti; getime(buffer); ti ti=atoi(buffer.t_second); printf(" %u",ti); } There are 2 Replies. #: 7127 S3/Languages 02-Oct-90 16:14:11 Sb: #7116-c_problem Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) You are declaring only a pointer to sgtbuf. You need to declare the structure itself and then pass it's address, ie, struct sgtbuf buffer; getime(&buffer); Zack #: 7131 S3/Languages 02-Oct-90 17:51:32 Sb: #7116-#c_problem Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) Andy - Couple of things poke me in the eye.... struct sgtbuf *buffer - declares a pointer to a structure of type sgtbuf... BUT... where is the storage for it? Also, how does the pointer get initialized to point to it. Perhaps you'd better try something like: struct sgtbuf buffer, *bp; bp = &buffer; Also - when using pointers to structures, you need to use the '->' connector vice the '.'. Example: buffer->t_sec (or whatever)... Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7161 S3/Languages 03-Oct-90 18:07:41 Sb: #7131-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) (ahem),hey guys i don't know nut'n i just try to survive with what i'm told. the reason i did "buffer.t_second" was thats the way it was structured in the header file,and yes all i want out of getime is the seconds. geting REALLY confused, ANDY T p.s. anyone want to continue this conversation on delphi? I just got an account (thib). There is 1 Reply. #: 7168 S3/Languages 03-Oct-90 20:52:51 Sb: #7161-#c_problem Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) Andy - Point is this: If you're going to access stucture members using a pointer (which you were apparently trying to do), you must use the construct: structure_pointer->structure_element If you're wheeling directly off of the name of the structure: structure_name.structure_element. Pete P.S. A good text on C is the "C Primer Plus" by the Waite Group. Easy reading & informative, lots of examples, and a sense of humor as well. P.S.S. DELPHI? "Fightin' words" here (grin).. I help administrate this forum... There is 1 Reply. #: 7182 S3/Languages 04-Oct-90 19:36:26 Sb: #7168-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, huh?,english please. i don't think my compiler manual is wrong( ? ),it says to declare it as a pointer("struct sgtbuf *buffer").(p.3-35). I've got two books on C ,C programming guide 2nd Edition (QUE). to that last post script yes I said (shhh)delphi,you must admit 20 hours for 20 hours is the least expensive.(sorry,grin). There are 2 Replies. #: 7185 S3/Languages 04-Oct-90 21:23:22 Sb: #7182-#c_problem Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) OK--your compiler manual is *not* wrong. Neither is Pete. This isn't anything like "light is a wave *and* a particle" or even "Certs is a candy mint and a breath mint." Here's the deal: The typical compiler manual shows you what would be the first part of a formal declaration of the function (or what it would be if it were a function, since sometimes it's really a macro). What that shows you is the type of the actual parameter you should pass. Now, in your invocation of the function, you passed it a variable that indeed has the correct type, i.e. pointer to struct sgtbuf. However, the *value* that you passed is not correct, because it is not in fact the address of a struct sgtbuf. Analogy: you call (invoke :-) a sign painter, who comes to your house and asks where the sign to be painted is, i.e. he wants a pointer to the sign you want painted. What you did in your invocation is the moral equivalent of pointing into empty space, that is it was a response of the correct type (pointer to a sign) but with an invalid value (because there was in fact no sign where you pointed). What Pete suggests is analogous to the following: before you call the painter, you build an (unpainted) sign. (In C, you'd declare a struct sgtbuf, "struct sgtbuf buf;".) When you call the painter, and he asks you to point to the sign to be painted, point at the sign you built. (In C, pass getime() the address of the structure you declared: "getime(&buf);".) This is admittedly a dumb analogy, but it's the best I could do on shorot --er, short--notice, while the CIS $$$ meter is ticking. I hope it helps to show what's going on. There is 1 Reply. #: 7191 S3/Languages 04-Oct-90 23:40:10 Sb: #7185-c_problem Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) That was _English_ ??? See you at the fest! #: 7202 S3/Languages 05-Oct-90 11:42:38 Sb: #7182-#c_problem Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) Andy - Not that it necessarily is, but NEVER assume a manual to be Gospel. Too many folks have wasted countless debugging hours on assumptions like that. As far as "English please" goes.... I gave you the way to solve your programming problem in normal C terms. If you find those vague, then you may want to pick up a text on C. I highly reccommend the "C Primer Plus" by the Waite group. As far as your problem goes, I'll make one more attempt. Gettime() requires a pointer to a structure. Just because you have a pointer, doesn't get you anything. You need something for it to POINT TO. In this case, you must either manually declare a structure to hold the time data, or if it's already available in a '.h' file (i.e. time.h), then make sure to include that file. If you want top reference the time data using the pointer, you must use the approach: pointer->data_element; If you want to access the time data using the name of the structure instead, you need to use: structname.data_element; Pete P.S. Please learn to accept help in a more gracious fashion, else you'll find people less than willing to take the time to help you with your problem. There is 1 Reply. #: 7207 S3/Languages 05-Oct-90 17:28:01 Sb: #7202-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) sorry guys, I really didn't mean to be rude,and i really appreciate any and all help I get(including all suggestions)but this one C problem has been about a year now and I don't seem to be getting any closer than I was before. as for the book,well,I might want to buy it if it explains pointers a little better than the one I have. p.s. I just got around to trying both suggestions I received and no go,if anyone would like to help me further I would still apreciate(and p.s.s (or psst) hey ,you ,wanna see a listing? There are 2 Replies. #: 7209 S3/Languages 05-Oct-90 18:03:26 Sb: #7207-c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) er,sorry again, that last part should read "(and welcome)" now that I've read all the help I'm getting around here in one sitting I think it's starting to sink in. but just to make sure I'm correct I'm right, I will leave and try it. thanks for being here, andy #: 7244 S3/Languages 08-Oct-90 09:18:00 Sb: #7207-c_problem Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) Andy - Happy to help... let's see the listing. Pete #: 7119 S3/Languages 02-Oct-90 01:37:51 Sb: #c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) does anyone have a program to change an .ar file? There is 1 Reply. #: 7128 S3/Languages 02-Oct-90 16:14:53 Sb: #7119-#c_problem Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) Change an ar file? Don't follow you. There is 1 Reply. #: 7162 S3/Languages 03-Oct-90 18:12:24 Sb: #7128-#c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) with that question i'm assuming that files with ".ar" have a protocall i wouldn't be able to use unless i had a program to convert it back. There is 1 Reply. #: 7172 S3/Languages 03-Oct-90 22:20:28 Sb: #7162-c_problem Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X) Files with an ".ar" extension is an archive file archived with the ar utility, available for downloading in the Utils lib. It is pure binary format and therefore requires something like XModem of B+ protocol for downloading. Umm, that is the program ar.bin _and_ any .ar file are in binary format. Zack #: 7082 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 30-Sep-90 19:28:27 Sb: ##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) ack, I agree -- and I think that many users are behind you. It looks as though DOS will be losing a lot of folks to other OSes -- just that fact alone gives us "dark horse" folks a much bigger chance. Still, I run across people who are INCREDIBLY DOS-arrogant. (Sniff) "Is it MS-DOS compatible? No? (Sniff) Well ..." That's why our machine will read/write/format DOS disks, will hav{ some great DOS programs on it, and so on. Paul There are 2 Replies. #: 7102 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-90 17:55:59 Sb: #7082-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, I wouldn't pick only on MSDOS folks, I've heard the same statement "..is it XXX-compatible..", but with XXX meaning: MSDOS, MAC, Unix, OS9 (!), IBM, DEC etc. Arrogance and single-mindedness is not a trait that MSDOS users can claim as their own! Don't knock MSDOS TOO hard, its not a dead (yet), Windows 3.0 turns MSDOS into something closely resembling a true multitasking OS (granted you need a real powerhouse of a PC to run it, fast 386 processor and lots of memory) but it is a step in the right direction. Its still a single user machine, though (of course...SNIFF! ;-). I'm rambling a bit, but my main point is that the "my thing is bigger/better than your thing" statment rarely holds up to close scrutiny, and tends to p.ss off whoever has whatever you don't. Best bet is to just stick to: "WOW look at what MY thing can do!!". Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 7150 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 08:55:53 Sb: #7102-##pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, Well, I agreee a GREAT deal with what you say. Boasting is bad, and just annoys people. However, the MM/1 and OSK have some features that are in great demand, and they execute them well. Just a little multitasking and multimedia power -done efficiently -- is what the Mac II and 386 folks want to do. Maybe the way to resolve the boasting problem is to leave the boasting to benefits and features, and not to systems. There are a great many features that the Mac iifx has that we can't compete with (price is one we can't keep up with -- the fx is darn expensive!). And vice versa. So we can't really boast "My MM/1 is better that your iifx!" We CAN say, "My MM/1 multitasks and does multimedia in an effective and efficient way, and although I'd love a 33 MHz 68030, I don't need it to do what the MM/1 does well!" Or something. Anyway, this discussion is moot. People will boast anyway, no matter what we say! Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7163 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 18:31:08 Sb: #7150-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, That's because they'll have something to boast about! I wasn't bashing boasting, but bashing bashing :-) Comparing and contrasting the multitude of different hardware and software systems is very helpful to anyone trying to decide which product to buy. I just get VERY tired of "my system is the best because its a XXX" or "your system is trash because its not a XXX" instead of "my system isn't multiuser, but multitasking, and supports AAA and ZZZ, which fits my needs perfectly, and since your system can't LLL, then I would never consider switching systems". Put a mac owner and an ibm owner together and you'd think that the future of humanity depended on which system was "better" than the other. And we know they're both wrong!! }:-) Bill #: 7134 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 02-Oct-90 20:17:37 Sb: #7082-#pt68k & herc graphics Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, I've been hearing that "Is it XXX compatible" question since 1959! It used to be IBM7090, then it was FORTRAN, then it was Microsoft BASIC, then is was Apple II, then it was CP/M. It seems to be an occupational disease. I _HATE_ it! Jack #: 7088 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 30-Sep-90 23:21:20 Sb: #data Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 To: all Does anybody have a DATA base with at least 10 fields? There is 1 Reply. #: 7095 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 01-Oct-90 15:54:42 Sb: #7088-#data Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X) I've sort of been working on one that can handle up to 20 fields plus features formating (i.e. placing the fields on the screen wherever you wish). Maybe I should dust it off and finish it. Floyd There is 1 Reply. #: 7110 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 01-Oct-90 22:37:20 Sb: #7095-#data Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X) That would be great!! Hey what ever happend to the modem game?? There is 1 Reply. #: 7125 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 02-Oct-90 14:06:41 Sb: #7110-#data Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X) Well, as soon as I can find a cheap RS-232 pak I'm going to work on some. I tried to test some over the phone but that was next to impossible. Floyd There is 1 Reply. #: 7136 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 02-Oct-90 22:15:07 Sb: #7125-#data Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X) OK thanks for the info let me know when you are done or if I can be some help. OK? There is 1 Reply. #: 7155 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 03-Oct-90 14:39:23 Sb: #7136-#data Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X) No problem. There is 1 Reply. #: 7173 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 03-Oct-90 23:05:33 Sb: #7155-#data Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X) How soon do you think? There is 1 Reply. #: 7176 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 04-Oct-90 05:46:18 Sb: #7173-data Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X) Well, the data base program can be completed fairly quickly. As far as modem games, whenever I get another RS-232 pak. Floyd #: 7111 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-90 23:09:14 Sb: #Humorous OSK Docs Fm: Kim Kempf 76701,65 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Other cute "man" names considered but rejected in the name of sanity. You determine the -MAN: Cache And Virtual Emulator -MAN Write Once -MAN SUPERvisor state -MAN MEGAbyte memory -MAN MEGAbyte memory -MAN (2 meg) Write And LocK -MAN System Protection and Indirect/Direct Extended Relocation - MAN SOCKMAN is the actual name of the Internet socket manager. On the FM11 the mouse manager was MOUSEMAN, the driver was MOUSE and the descriptor was MICKEY. Please contribute your favorite -MANs! There is 1 Reply. #: 7151 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 09:02:28 Sb: #7111-#Humorous OSK Docs Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Kim Kempf 76701,65 (X) Well, how 'bout plain old MailMAN? For us math majors on multimedia WANs, we could have the Multiuser AXess Multimedia INterface-MAN. Or the manager that handles PC specific hardware call trapping in the OS-9000 DOS window -- TANSTAAFL-Man (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch, Man ...) (grin) Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7165 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 19:33:40 Sb: #7151-#Humorous OSK Docs Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Speaking of strings with "man" as a proper suffix...doesn't Bart Simpson emit a lot of those? There is 1 Reply. #: 7200 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 05-Oct-90 06:50:54 Sb: #7165-Humorous OSK Docs Fm: William Phelps 75100,265 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Hey, to speed up calculations we can always use a Binary ARiThmetic -MAN. And a special note to George Bush: Don't have a Catastrophic, Oil War -MAN! William #: 7112 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 01-Oct-90 23:15:49 Sb: #aterm Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: Michael Fisher 72320,1233 (X) Mike, The bus error problem on Sterm 1.3 is something that recently came to my attention. Please bear with me as a new version is in the works. Since I didn't have an OSK machine until recently, I never knew of the error until someone else mentioned it. I suppose those that had been using it for some time always did B protocol transfers (grin). Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 7157 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 16:25:10 Sb: #7112-aterm Fm: Michael Fisher 72320,1233 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X) Hi Mark, Thanks for the feedback, I never thought of trying B+ since it hung with xmodem I didn't think there was a chance - not very logical!I luck forward to hearing from you one day re a solution, meanwhile I will try B+ and advise my friend. Mike Fisher - Toronto #: 7114 S7/Telecommunications 02-Oct-90 00:04:17 Sb: #Thanks Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) The problem I'm having isn't with the linefeeds. I'm a section leader (assistant SysOP) on another forum of CIS. When I access the SysOP area I can only upload and download using B-protocol or MODEM7 (like in Easyplex). Telstar won't use these protocols. What is MODEM7? I guess as Mike said I will need to change my terminal program. Not being very knowledgable in OS9 I don't look forward to making changes. Thanks, Butch Mooney There is 1 Reply. #: 7217 S7/Telecommunications 05-Oct-90 23:27:16 Sb: #7114-#Thanks Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 (X) modem7 is an early version of xmodem. they should be compatible. since modem7 was designed to exchg files it does not (usually) mess about with the contents of the data stream. since os9 uses a single CR as a newline while the rest of the world uses a cr/lf pair the display of files on a bbs often does not work. either the bbs or os9 must convert cr to cr/lf at some point. in a straight upload (read etc) this is done. but in xmodem both ends leave the contents alone. I dont have your original message but the problem you described did sound like a line-feed problem. if it was then xcom9 gives you the option of converting cr to cr/lf even in xmodem mode. There is 1 Reply. #: 7225 S7/Telecommunications 06-Oct-90 07:29:06 Sb: #7217-Thanks Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Thank you very much for the information. The strange things is Telstar does the samething. I can do a CR or CRLF in or out or both directions. That is why I don't think it was a linefeed problem. Butch #: 7120 S7/Telecommunications 02-Oct-90 04:45:06 Sb: #Thanks Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013 To: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 (X) MODEM7 is a very OLD term for Xmodem. I'm sure you'll discover (if you haven't already) that Telstar will work in that mode but if it doesn't add linefeeds it won't help much. Like Greg said too, Xcom9, available here, will do that trick. Another thing you might consider is to look in the Libs here for a utility to make a copy of the file and add line feeds to it offline. Lotsa ways to skin a cat. Welcome to sysop heaven. There is 1 Reply. #: 7122 S7/Telecommunications 02-Oct-90 09:10:18 Sb: #7120-#Thanks Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 To: Mike Ward 76703,2013 (X) Thanks for the information. It is very helpful. Learning about sysop heaven (grin) and OS9 at the same time is a little to much. (frown) If I wasn't for the people here in this forum I don't know what I would do. The service doesn't know a thing about OS9 so I would be in the dark. Butch There is 1 Reply. #: 7146 S7/Telecommunications 03-Oct-90 07:38:00 Sb: #7122-#Thanks Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 (X) Butch, just curious .... where are you sysoping these days? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 7153 S7/Telecommunications 03-Oct-90 10:32:29 Sb: #7146-Thanks Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Hi Steve, I'm at the Horse Section of the PETS Forum. New as of Feb. this year. Butch #: 7123 S6/Applications 02-Oct-90 09:54:28 Sb: #6838-#microemacs bug Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Greeting- I just got somewhere with the Sun termcap thing! Use the vt100 termcap entry. It works for sun shelltool windows just fine. I just added sun to the |vt100|d0| section of the entry. Funny thing is I never had trouble with my model 100 entry. Strange. Simmy HELP! -Brett There is 1 Reply. #: 7147 S6/Applications 03-Oct-90 07:40:24 Sb: #7123-#microemacs bug Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 (X) Thanks for the info, Brett. I quake in my boots anytime I have to change anything these days on the CoCo. I'm not sure which is worse ... new bootfiles or termcap entries. Say ... (on another topic) how 'bout a breif discourse on your Os9 list thing? Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 7290 S6/Applications 11-Oct-90 20:16:07 Sb: #7147-#microemacs bug Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) ~ Greeting- The os9 list is a mailing list that originates on usenet via my COCO3 running uucp. It is not full featured yet, but what happens is if someone sends mail to ....marob!davidge!wa3yre!os9 the message is ransmitted to all subscribers on the list. I guess it must be getting to CIS if you are commenting. This is the second set of uucp utilities and enahncements that I am working on now. Everyone who gets the uucp archive will probably see some of my code in both stand alone utilities and in parts of the rest. That is of course if /\/\ark did not give my code the axe in final QC. I started the os9 mailing list because of service problems with the coco mailing list. I think with the new OSK machines out and with uucp out finaly after 3 years (Not Marks fault) we need an os9 mailing list especialy since not everyone has access to the comp.os.os9 news group from usenet. As soon as I get news going on the unix box at work I will work on redistributing comp.os.os9 to the os9 mailing list. If anyone wants on the list just drop mail to me at ......marob!davidge!wa3yre!wynkoop and I will add you. It may take a few days because I have not automated the process yet. BTW STEVE when are you going to make a posting? -Brett There are 2 Replies. #: 7297 S6/Applications 11-Oct-90 22:16:57 Sb: #7290-#microemacs bug Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 (X) I really think that some of the redistribution needs to go the other way. Eric Tilenius siphoned off a lot of traffic that would otherwise have gone to comp.os.os9 and comp.sys.m6809, and there's no way a random CoCo user with USENET access would have any idea that the BITNET mailing list even exists. At the *very* least, there ought to be some regular posting to the newsgroups that tells people how to get to the mailing list. (For that matter, lack of use is a good way to make a newsgroup a candidate for extinction.) There is 1 Reply. #: 7327 S6/Applications 13-Oct-90 09:05:03 Sb: #7297-#microemacs bug Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) ~ Greeting- I agree we need to get some stuff going in comp.os.os9. I will look into sending the os9 mailing list there after I get news going on my machine at the office. In the mean time I guess I will post something to comp.os.os9 about the list. I started the os9 mailing list out of self defense at first. There was no life in comp.os.os9 and I had been dropped from the coco list and after a month of trying could still not get on. BTW JJ do you want to be added to the os9 mailing list? I think I have your uucp address somewhere. You can post to the list by send ing mail to .....marob!davidge!wa3yre!os9 -Brett There is 1 Reply. #: 7338 S6/Applications 13-Oct-90 14:23:58 Sb: #7327-#microemacs bug Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 (X) Please do put me on the list. It's uunet!mcrware!jejones. Glad to hear that you'll check out forwarding mailing list stuff to comp.os.os9; traffic has picked up a bit recently, but it's likely to fade out soon. There is 1 Reply. #: 7448 S6/Applications 16-Oct-90 22:07:46 Sb: #7338-microemacs bug Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) ~ Greeting- James Please send me mail via usenet so I can get a good return path to you. -Brett uucp.............hombre!marob!davidge!wa3yre!wynkoop #: 7334 S6/Applications 13-Oct-90 10:24:01 Sb: #7290-#microemacs bug Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 (X) Brett, Actually I was just waiting for more information ... and you'd just given it! Next step is for me to subscribe ... as soon as I decide exactly how I wish to go about this (use the CIS account or perhaps via rewop). Keep an eye out. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 7444 S6/Applications 16-Oct-90 20:55:14 Sb: #7334-#microemacs bug Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Greeting- Check your cis mail box. I put both you and Paul ward on in the beginning. You should see a few messages from the server already. -Brett There is 1 Reply. #: 7495 S6/Applications 17-Oct-90 22:43:29 Sb: #7444-microemacs bug Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 Will do Brett. #: 7129 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 02-Oct-90 17:26:50 Sb: Spoker Bugz Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 To: Joseph Cheek 76264,142 (X) Ok, cool. At least we know what's going on now. /exit #: 7132 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 02-Oct-90 17:54:06 Sb: #512k got trashed Fm: Shawn Thomas 76226,3237 To: All Could someone provide me with info on who is selling 512k upgrad boards for the Coco 3? I just moved and somehow my board got trashed, it no longer works in either of my Coco 3s. Or should I take it to some tech and have the chips tested? I'm currently running on 128k, and it is driving me nuts! And of course running on 128k meant chopping my boot file down from where I had it. I no longer subscribe to Rainbow, and I'm not sure what companies are still out there, or what their prices are like. Shawn There is 1 Reply. #: 7148 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 03-Oct-90 07:48:15 Sb: #7132-512k got trashed Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Shawn Thomas 76226,3237 (X) Shawn, I, too, dropped Rainbow a while back... but they just sent me the October ish trying to convince me I need to resubscribe. So here's a few vendors you might wish to check out (in no particular order): Microcom 1-800-654-5244 Burke and Burke 1-800 237-2409 Disto 514-967-0195 Might want to take the plung in to the 1 meg machine if the buck are right. Steve #: 7133 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 02-Oct-90 19:36:41 Sb: Level I Drivers Fm: Chris Burke 72240,304 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Well, Steve, we haven't done anything on BlueBoard. The TC9 and MM/1 make the product less viable. If I ever get time, maybe I'll just post the PAL equations and stuff so that some other enterprising person can build the thing. Nice to be back! CJB #: 7135 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 02-Oct-90 21:39:23 Sb: #Sterm_Question Fm: Stanley L. Goldsberry 72060,2720 To: all sterm_question symptoms= Sterm menu comes on screen then the computer locks up with the cursor under the statement Current baud rate=9600,computer will not respond to any keys and I have out of the lockup. Knowing the baud should be 1200 baud to match my Avatex 1200 modem,could this cause the above symptoms? I have the Sterm in /d0/cmds,termcap and ttytype in /d0/sys,also t2 and patched cc3io in os9boot using coco3.How do I go about changing the baud rate? then again my thinking may be out in left field. StanleyGoldsberry 72060,2720 There are 2 Replies. #: 7141 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 03-Oct-90 03:34:16 Sb: #7135-Sterm_Question Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Stanley L. Goldsberry 72060,2720 (X) You should be able to change the baud rate with xmode. #: 7149 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 03-Oct-90 07:53:18 Sb: #7135-#Sterm_Question Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Stanley L. Goldsberry 72060,2720 (X) Stanley, Aside from the baud problem wich you can solve by xmoding the descriptor prior to executing sterm, Sterm assumes that /dd is present. You tell us that sterm is in /d0/cmds and the termcap stuff is in /d0/sys, so I assume that you don't have /dd in your boot. Three solutions come immediately to mind: 1) add /dd to your bootfile 2) move the termcap stuff to /r0/sys (sterm knows about ramdisk) 3) using Ded, change the occurances of /dd in sterm to /d0 Take your pick, and let us know what works for you. Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 7210 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 05-Oct-90 18:12:19 Sb: #7149-Sterm_Question Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) if you don't use anything else with that discriptor,you might want to cobbler it after you xmode it to the correct baud. andy t. #: 7143 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 03-Oct-90 05:24:05 Sb: Luxury Tax? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: All Part of the proposed budget/deficit reduction plan may affect you. I have heard that among its components is a 10% "luxury tax," which applies to, among other things, "electronic equipment." Does that include computers? I don't know, but I certainly hope not, and I've taken advantage of CIS's Congressgram facilities to express my opinion to my senators. I think that it would be a good idea to consider expressing your opinion to your Congressbeings as well. #: 7144 S15/Hot Topics 03-Oct-90 07:21:54 Sb: MM/1 Serv. Manual Fm: Giles 73347,2651 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Thx, Paul! Prolly c u at th Fest! (grin) Giles #: 7145 S15/Hot Topics 03-Oct-90 07:25:08 Sb: MM/1 Serv. Manual Fm: Giles 73347,2651 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Maybe I aughta badger Kev for a copy of HIS version! (grin) Giles #: 7156 S3/Languages 03-Oct-90 16:01:57 Sb: #Need help with C Fm: MAS 76336,3226 To: * Can someone please give me hints on how to port the pipe() and fork() commands from Unix to from Unix to OS-9? Thanks! There are 3 Replies. #: 7158 S3/Languages 03-Oct-90 16:35:44 Sb: #7156-Need help with C Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: MAS 76336,3226 (X) Haven't done exactly that, but have opened a lot of /pipe's. It would look something like: pipe(fd) int *fd; { fd[0] = open("/pipe","w"); fd[1] = open("/pipe","r"); } Of course, that's not exactly it (I think in pipe() there is only one pipe actually created), but you get the idea. Mark #: 7159 S3/Languages 03-Oct-90 16:40:57 Sb: #7156-Need help with C Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: MAS 76336,3226 (X) Fork() is a different beastie, as os9 doesn't do your traditional unix fork() and exec() to spawn new processes. Since most of the time you fork() in unix you end up exec()ing the process you really wanted, you replace the fork() and exec() in the unix code with a single os9exec(). If you *really* want to spawn a child that takes up like the unix fork() does (ie: no exec()), you'll have to play some game at the beginning of the program to see if this is the child or the parent and branch (eek - goto in "c") to the appropriate spot. Good luck. Mark #: 7175 S3/Languages 04-Oct-90 02:20:40 Sb: #7156-#Need help with C Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 To: MAS 76336,3226 (X) There is source for Unix popen() pclose() in unixlib.ar (I think) in DL12. The package is written for OSK and may not work for OS-9 LII. Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 7178 S3/Languages 04-Oct-90 11:17:54 Sb: #7175-#Need help with C Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X) Bob - In the current version of the Kreider C Libraries (clib.l and clibt.l) for the 6809, there are working versions of popen() and pclose() for os9/6809'ers. They work just ducky. Compliments of one Simmy Turner. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7197 S3/Languages 05-Oct-90 03:59:25 Sb: #7178-Need help with C Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, Of course, the Kreider libs! Sorry, I should have thought first! :-) Bob #: 7164 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 03-Oct-90 18:49:32 Sb: Sterm Fm: Michael Fisher 72320,1233 To: Mark Griffith/ 76070,41 (X) Hi Mark, I just downloaded three files using sterm with B+ and all was well, thanks.I notice when I am typing a text message in, like now, if I hold a key down and get a key repeat (at least for space or cr ), the ST locks up and I must reboot to get out.Maybe a buffer size problem -or a Mike Fisher or ST problem ? Thanks again - Mike Fisher Toronto. #: 7166 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 03-Oct-90 20:40:16 Sb: ShellMate Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: All Anyone here use ShellMate, if so, what are your thoughts on the product. Who is marketing it now? Lee #: 7167 S1/General Interest 03-Oct-90 20:43:11 Sb: OS9 on IBM PC family Fm: Robert V mahoney Jr. 71211,1156 To: all I have heard rumours of a version of OS9 that runs on the Intel 80286 (and family). Anyone know anything about this? Thanx! #: 7174 S1/General Interest 04-Oct-90 00:41:04 Sb: #serial port boards Fm: Ken Drexler 75126,3427 To: Doug 72667,1433 (X) Doug, I saw your message #6853 re "serial port boards. I was about to write you to sign up for 2 or 3 boards for my two SSB systems. Then I saw Greg Morse's message #6875. It referred to a company named Microplex in Vancouver and its M108 DUART board. Greg's message gave the phone number for Microplex. I called them at (604) 875-1461 today and talked to Fred, one of their sales people. He said they had discontinued the product but had four of the M108 boards left. He said that them would sell one for $80 (Canadian) each. I ordered one. This price includes Greg Morse's software driver. If you are still interested in one or more a serial SS-30 boards, you might give them a call. If you need more than three maybe you can talk them into letting you use the board layout. Ken Drexler There is 1 Reply. #: 7186 S1/General Interest 04-Oct-90 22:20:58 Sb: #7174-#serial port boards Fm: DOUG 72667,1433 To: Ken Drexler 75126,3427 (X) Thanks Ken... Pete said to check with Greg also. Thanks for the info. May give them a call and may still try and make the boards. I've got a fairly good small run company that normally does my work. B C N U ; Doug There is 1 Reply. #: 7227 S1/General Interest 06-Oct-90 10:26:42 Sb: #7186-serial port boards Fm: Ken Drexler 75126,3427 To: DOUG 72667,1433 Good luck xx There is 1 Reply. #: 7252 S1/General Interest 08-Oct-90 22:21:51 Sb: #7220-#F$MOVE Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Greg - Ok, I'll bite . So howcum an os9p3 F$Move wouldn't work? Granted, I bet some of OS9p1 calls the original internally, but that shouldn't prevent using a new and better one for SCF/RBF/IOMan/OS9p2/etc. Or do you mean something about getting it installed? Or? I give up! ;-) thx - Kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7341 S1/General Interest 13-Oct-90 14:50:00 Sb: #7252-#F$MOVE Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Well! Because the code for F$MOVE that does all the work and needs all the improvemnet must be located in the top 256 bytes of the address map. F$move just jumps to a subroutine "MOVER" and it is mover that is inneficient! (and located in the top 256 bytes) greg There is 1 Reply. #: 7348 S1/General Interest 13-Oct-90 21:22:28 Sb: #7341-#F$MOVE Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Aha! You made me stop for a second , but nope F$Move doesn't have to be in the top vector page... only interrupt/return code does. Move shuts off interrupts, which means it can be at any location. One thing F$Move does do tho, is to assume that it's above certain logical address move areas (on the CoCo, the blocks at $A000 and $C000, I think). But as long as OS9p3 looked up to see where it had been located, I believe it could set up move areas to use with no trouble. So I still think you can replace F$Move. Ready to give it a shot? - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7360 S1/General Interest 14-Oct-90 11:40:58 Sb: #7348-#F$MOVE Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kev - study the code of mover. I do beleive it must be in an area that exists in all address spaces. Not because of interupts but because it is changing the task select register on the fly. when it does that the PROGRAM COUNTER is no longer valid, unless the code being executed is in ALL address spaces. I think that during the course of mover there are 3 address spaces in action - the source, the dest, and the system. And there is NO RAM which exists in all the address spaces, only ROM That is one reason why mover does all of its movement thru registers and why it exg B and DP etc rather than just pushing onto a stack. THERE is no RAM. be much more efficient if there were, then instead of changing address spaces on every double byte, mover could copy say 32 bytes from the from space to the stack, then switch to the to space and copy from the stack. but it cant. also note that mover re-enables interrupts after every double byte to give the system a chance to work on higher priority stuff. at least all of the above is true for the OS9-II v1.2 I have. There is 1 Reply. #: 7383 S1/General Interest 15-Oct-90 13:08:34 Sb: #7360-#F$MOVE Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Greg - that may be it... your Mover may be different than the CoCo's, which doesn't mess with the task register... just changes the system one on the fly. I'll dig out my old GIMIX source and look. There is 1 Reply. #: 7391 S1/General Interest 15-Oct-90 21:10:42 Sb: #7383-#F$MOVE Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) How does the coco mover work then? it must know of at least 2 address spaces - one user and 0ne system so what happens to the pgm counter when it switches from system to user or vice versa? also what does it use as scratch ram to do the move from/to? There is 1 Reply. #: 7405 S1/General Interest 16-Oct-90 00:20:12 Sb: #7391-#F$MOVE Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) The one/two-byte mover simply replaces system logical block zero with the target block number, gets/puts the data, then zeros the DAT again (possible of course because the block at logical $0000 in system space is always physical RAM block 00). On the longer moves it doesn't flip tasks like yours must. Why not? The CoCo only has two task regs (and thus two DAT reg sets), so it can't go and allocate another task for moves. I suppose it could use the user (second) task set for moves, but they didn't. Instead only the main system task is used: It figures out the source and destination block numbers, shuts off irqs, and maps those blocks in at system map logical $A000 and $C000. Then it can copy a short burst between those blocks, reset the original system map block numbers, and turn on irqs. Then repeat, changing block numbers as user blockmap boundaries are crossed. Since the mover code is outside those two changing system logical address ranges, the code is safe. In other words, on 8K block Cocos (system map block numbers are made up for typical boot), if it needed to move data from physical block number $10 to block number $12, it would: System Map Normal Sys Set Up For Log. Add Map Blocks Data Move ========== ========== ========== $E000-FFFF $003F $003F <-- mover code here $C000-DFFF $0004 $0012 <-- destination block mapped in $A000-BFFF $0003 $0010 <-- source block mapped in $8000-9FFF $0002 $0002 $6000-7FFF $0001 $0001 (block changes temp during irq-off $4000-5FFF $0005 $0005 movement, then back to normal) $2000-3FFF DATFree DATFree $0000-1FFF $0000 $0000 So it temporarily changes the system task map DAT info in order to make two external blocks appear and be accessible for moving data around. You could definitely pull the same trick. As for a OS9P3's volatile location, you could have it check itself and use logical addresses away from itself. Does this make warped sense? Just diddling its own system map. There is 1 Reply. #: 7440 S1/General Interest 16-Oct-90 20:13:37 Sb: #7405-F$MOVE Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Will peruse off line but yes, in a way it does make sense to just zap the DAT itself rather than the task select register. would have to do a logical to physical calculation to get phys block which might cost some time depending on hte number of bytes to move and of course irq's are not safe while system DAT has been modified. tnx anyway. #: 7224 S3/Languages 06-Oct-90 01:23:03 Sb: #real time languages Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all I just got finished reading a most interesting book *Computer Languages* (by Naomi S. Baron). Some nice comparisons and interesting perspectives. But what has me somewhat confused is the comment that C is *not* a language for real time programming. "Dennis Ritchie makes it quite clear that C was not desinged to handle more than one operation at a time (that is, it was never intended to do multiprogramming, which is a necessary component of real-time programming). . . . there are no facilities for multiprogramming, parallel operations, synchronization, or process control." For this kind of stuff we have to use Ada or Modula-2. Hmmm, I wonder how real-time systems (like OS-9) manage to do anything at all in light of the above. Or is there more than one definition of "real-time"? /ex post There is 1 Reply. #: 7250 S3/Languages 08-Oct-90 13:11:31 Sb: #7224-#real time languages Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Multiple definitions of real-time, I'm afraid. When I was working weapons systems, real time meant that each submodule had a time budget, and overall system cycle time was crucial (for things like launcher order extrapolation, future target position estimation, and so on). If time overran it's set limit, a note was made and a time loan was established. This was effectively taken from segments that didn't use all of their allocated time. If a consistent offense was noted, that module was flagged and faulted out to the executive. Other people consider real time environments those that allow for dynamic inputs, and simultaneously produce resultant output. A pitch shifter (in a recording studio) is a good example.. a sound goes in, the processor performs transforms on it, and that same sound is emitted from the outputs (in its shifted form) almost at the same moment. Other folks take real time to mean "not batch" (or deferred) processing. Unfortunately, people think that "real time" is a sexy term, and will misuse it to make something sound slick. Bet that this is the most common case. I, for one, don't consider OS9 to be real time. It doesn't have finite periods during which it must accomplish things, nor does it have the mechanisms to enforce that kind of operation with its applications. Back to C, ADA, and multiple concurrent operation. Using C under OS9/Unix, the OPERATING system provides the facilities. Under ADA, tasking, rendevous, and the likes are features of the language. I think that's where the distinction lies. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7257 S3/Languages 09-Oct-90 09:45:20 Sb: #7250-#real time languages Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) WHAT!? OS-9 not real time!? (Lucky for you none of their sales reps are on here ) Seriously, the thing that makes OS-9 (and VRTX, and PSOS, etc) real-time is the predictability of performance when it's needed. That is the very thing HP put into HP-UX to make a "real-time" version of Unix. If you always know exactly (within reason) how long a process or code segment is going to take, then it is real-time. OS-9 user-state processes don't qualify, as they are subject to scheduling (time-slicing) and interrupts. What we have done is to put timing-critical processes in system state and let them "share" by tsleep()ing if and when it knows it has nothing to do. Although one could argue that we aren't using OS-9 (or any OS) while we are in system state, (in fact, there are points where the system clock is masked) it is nice to have the kernel there to facilitate things such as fork()ing the process in the first place and providing a systematic interface to the outside world (i/o). Geez, I can't believe I jumped into a discussion about "real-time" . Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 7258 S3/Languages 09-Oct-90 12:47:07 Sb: #7257-real time languages Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Mark - I'd say you were on target... at that point, you've become a 'kernel extension', and aren't a typical OS9 app. Also, your tsleep() approach is clock dependant, and may not operate the same way on another architecture (i.e. in 6809/os9, ticks/slice was altered between SS-50 and coco type systems). I've already done a bit of dueling on the topic with Kim Kempf on USENET sometime ago. Basically (if I recall), he said something to the effect of "well, it all depends what you call real time...". Pete #: 7231 S5/OS9 Users Group 06-Oct-90 22:47:29 Sb: #T2mouse Fm: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106 To: Bruce Isted 76625,2273 (X) Both yourself and Kent Meyers provided patches to the original CC3io Kent for Gshell+ and yours for serial mouse. How do I reconcile cc3io.km and cc3io.bi? Do I use makpatch by comparing them both? What effect, since I only have one T2, will subsequent usuage for modem be? There is 1 Reply. #: 7361 S5/OS9 Users Group 14-Oct-90 15:30:47 Sb: #7231-T2mouse Fm: Bruce Isted (UG VP) 76625,2273 To: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106 (X) ~ Kevin, I believe you only need to use the cc3io patches I provide in SMOUSE.AR, because those patches also incorporate Kent Meyer's patches. I thought it would be easier for most users to start from the original CC3IO module, rather than applying patch upon patch. I'm sorry if the documentation didn't make that clear. I'm afraid that when you have the serial mouse version of CC3IO installed you won't be able to use the RS-232 Pak for your modem. In order to use both at once you'll need 2 separate hardware serial ports. There are multi-port serial boards available, or it is possible to modify a second RS-232 Pak so that two Paks can be used at once. There are text files in the libraries here that describe those modifications... but I don't know exactly what or where they are. One other thing... I will soon be uploading a new SMOUSE.AR file that incorporates a slight change to give much improved IRQ response... its something that Kevin Darling figured out and graciously gave me permission to distribute. Now all I need is to get the stuff together! Bruce #: 7232 S3/Languages 06-Oct-90 23:17:56 Sb: #Os9 Pascal Eoln Function Fm: Steven Barlett 71635,1562 To: All Users I am Writing a program in OS9 Pascal and am having some troble Inputing With The Eoln Function..... After I Enter a string Varable into A Read Statement in a While loop and press the Charage Return The rest of the inputs That are set up to Be read are skipped as The Eoln Boolean is being set to True.... How Can I reset the Eoln Function back to False before The next varable read... Is it Possible... If not could anyone please make some suggestions... Your help would be appreciated. There is 1 Reply. #: 7233 S3/Languages 07-Oct-90 02:53:47 Sb: #7232-#Os9 Pascal Eoln Function Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 To: Steven Barlett 71635,1562 (X) Steven, Its been about 8 years since I wrote any Pascal. I don't have OS9 Pascal. However, if my memory serves me correctly I think I had to do a rewind function call to reset the input file. You might try this and see what happens. I presume you have read the manual? Bob There is 1 Reply. #: 7234 S3/Languages 07-Oct-90 09:29:05 Sb: #7233-Os9 Pascal Eoln Function Fm: Steven Barlett 71635,1562 To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X) Hi Mr Taylor I will give it a try and let you know if it worked out... thanks..... #: 7237 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Oct-90 12:47:55 Sb: #TOP, Munich Edition? Fm: Al Fleagle 72527,1354 To: all I've seen a lot of discussion on the TOP series. Just what is it? Do I need it? There is 1 Reply. #: 7241 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 07-Oct-90 21:55:23 Sb: #7237-TOP, Munich Edition? Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Al Fleagle 72527,1354 (X) Al, The Top stuff is a series of files found in LIB 12 containing loads of utilities and applications for OSK. See TOP6.AR, TOP6A.AR and TOPIND.AR for documentation and Indices (all found in LIB 12). Steve #: 7238 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 07-Oct-90 14:47:15 Sb: #help bad crc Fm: ERIC HOCHSTETLER 71340,430 To: all Can anyone tell me how to fix a module on disk with a bad CRC? I can't figure out how to do it with any command supplied with OS9 L2. There are 2 Replies. #: 7239 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 07-Oct-90 21:52:39 Sb: #7238-help bad crc Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: ERIC HOCHSTETLER 71340,430 (X) Eric, The only way I know of to fix a bad CRC is to replace the questioned program from either a known good backup or the source disk. If a file is being flagged as having a bad CRC ... then pay attention. Something has gone on to cause it to be wrong! :-) Steve #: 7251 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 08-Oct-90 20:47:48 Sb: #7238-help bad crc Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: ERIC HOCHSTETLER 71340,430 Eric - as someone has mentioned, if the CRC is bad, the module is messed up in some way. However, if you yourself changed the module on purpose, then the "verify" command (it may be on the dev disk under L-II ... it came with L-I) can be used. If the module isn't already in memory, and you know what to change, you could use modpatch to change and reverity it also. Which module is it, and did you change it yourself (and how)? thx - kev #: 7242 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 07-Oct-90 23:00:14 Sb: #finished? Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 To: 72227,3467 (X) Did you ever finish your address program???? There is 1 Reply. #: 7262 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 09-Oct-90 18:56:50 Sb: #7242-#finished? Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X) Everett, You might have me mixed up with someone else ? Either that or my memory is really going, because I can't think of an address program that I was working on. The only thing close was that label maker program that I uploaded a couple of years ago. I had thoughts at the time of adding a little database to that label program but never got back to it. Larry There is 1 Reply. #: 7268 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 09-Oct-90 22:42:16 Sb: #7262-finished? Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467 thats what i am talking about. got it from the download lidt.! #: 7254 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 08-Oct-90 22:35:44 Sb: Motorola/Hitachi Settle Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: all Good news: Motorola and Hitachi have settled out of court on the H/8, H/16, MC68030 and 88000 patent/sharing lawsuits. Terms were not disclosed. #: 7266 S1/General Interest 09-Oct-90 22:31:57 Sb: #GoodBye Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41 To: All {To All OS9 Forum Members: It is with regret that I must sign off from Compuserve begining immediately. I have incurred over that last 8 months some very large financial difficulties that have reduced my income substantially. So, I must cut costs to the bare bone in whatever way I can. Unfortunately, Compuserve is something my family can do without, and the money spent here, although small, is sorely needed elsewhere. Over the past 6 years or so I have seen many people come and go on the forum. I didn't expect myself to be one of them. I have enjoyed the friendships I have made here, and hope to reestablish them again in the future. I will not be outside the mainstream of OS9 discussions though, since I still will have access to the CoCo group on BITNET. I have also just uploaded the complete OS9/UUCP package in DL7.....my final contribution to the forum for the near future. If anyone needs help with the package, I will be available at my home phone number given in the docs, or via my electronic mail addresses also given in the docs. If anyone does not have access to me by those routes, Steve Wegert, Ed Gresick, or Zack Sessions, all members of this forum, can help answer your questions. I hope to be able to login again after the first of the year. So until then, goddbye all and thanks for the opportunity to be a part of this group. Mark Griffith There are 5 Replies. #: 7278 S1/General Interest 10-Oct-90 22:35:57 Sb: #7266-GoodBye Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 Mark, Hope everything goes well for you in your absence, and that you're able to rejoin the family soon! Wayne #: 7279 S1/General Interest 10-Oct-90 23:28:02 Sb: #7266-GoodBye Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 Take care, Mark... I'm sure we'll be talking by phone in the meantime. Hope to see you back up here soon! #: 7280 S1/General Interest 11-Oct-90 00:06:57 Sb: #7266-GoodBye Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 I hope you return soon, and that things go well for you and your family. (It was good to finally meet you.) #: 7281 S1/General Interest 11-Oct-90 00:27:47 Sb: #7266-GoodBye Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 Mark, Hang in there dude! It just won't be the same without your input around here. Take care and hope ya get back on here soon. Mike PS Great Fest, huh! #: 7288 S1/General Interest 11-Oct-90 07:22:22 Sb: #7266-GoodBye Fm: Mark B. Sheffield 76247,1332 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 Mark - We'll miss you here and look forward to having you back at the beginning of the year. I'm sure I'll be talking with you plenty on the phone, though! -mark #: 7267 S6/Applications 09-Oct-90 22:40:08 Sb: #Multivue Fm: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721 To: all I'm trying to get Basic09 running on Multivue using an AIF. I've got a Coco 3 with 512k. My problem is when I click on the aif icon, a type 2 window comes up. This is what I want, but after the window comes up I get an error 115followed by an error 043. Then the Basic09 prompt comes up and everything seems to work normally. However, the Basic09 title doesn't come up either...just the error messages. I have runb, syscall, and inkey in my cmds dir. this is what my Aif looks like: Basic09 /r0/cmds/icons/icon.demo 0 2 80 24 0 1 Does anyone know why I'm getting the error message? If I run B09 from a shell made by gshell it works fine. Dave There is 1 Reply. #: 7271 S6/Applications 10-Oct-90 06:03:56 Sb: #7267-#Multivue Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 To: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721 (X) It sounds like the parameter line in the AIF (line 2) contains something. Whatever is there, Multi-Vue will pass it to Basic09 as a parameter, even if it is just a space. Basic09 will then attempt to load and run the program. Floyd There are 2 Replies. #: 7286 S6/Applications 11-Oct-90 02:18:17 Sb: #7271-#Multivue Fm: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721 To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X) Thanks for the info....any idea how I can correct the situation?. Should I specify a B09 program to load on line 2 then just get rid of it when it comes up? Oh well, as long as it doesn't affect its performance, I guess I can live with the error messages!! Thanks again for your help!! Dave There is 1 Reply. #: 7292 S6/Applications 11-Oct-90 20:44:03 Sb: #7286-#Multivue Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 To: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721 (X) You can edit the file with the edit program supplied with OS9. After entering the editor, go to line 2 of the file and type: c/ // This will change the space character into a null. Floyd There is 1 Reply. #: 7295 S6/Applications 11-Oct-90 21:33:23 Sb: #7292-Multivue Fm: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721 To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X) Thanks Floyd...I was able to make the change with SLED. My problems now deal with the color problems with SLED and the memory loss after quitting programs. Dave #: 7287 S6/Applications 11-Oct-90 06:25:53 Sb: #7271-Multivue Fm: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721 To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X) Floyd... I just found the problem. When I made the aif files, I used the build command and in order to get an empty line you have to press the space bar and then enter. I guess the space made by the space bar was taken to be a program parameter, hence the error messages. I used sled and finally cleared it up... which brings up a couple of other questions: 1) SLED doesn't seem to follow the 16 palette colors, it only uses the first 2 colors on the first line of colors. I know that the status flags' colors are already set, but why don't the edit window colors(back and fore) change? 2) Once multivue establishes a window for a process (like sled, shell, or B09) does it deiniz those windows after the programs are quit. For some reason, every ttime I quit a windowed program, mfree shows me to have less memory than I should, corresponding to the mem size of the window...usually type2-4k. When I quit, I either press ctrl-brk(for sled and shell) or "bye" for B09. Everything disappears as they should. Only the mem from the windows doesn't return. Should I be quitting these progs some other way? Oops--I quit sled with ctrl-q. Well, thanks again for your help! Dave #: 7273 S15/Hot Topics 10-Oct-90 13:58:03 Sb: #CoCoFest Report Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: all The CoCoFest in Atlanta turned out to be a success! People said the turnout seemed as large as the last Chicago fest, which isn't bad at all considering the relative lack of advertising done. The number of regulars from far away places was incredible... lots of New Yorkers, Floridians, and even some guys from Holland! The hotel was totally filled up, altho some of that was from the cheerleader competition (now are you sorry you didn't go? hehe). The producers did a bang-up job... it looked exactly like a RainbowFest, altho I wish they'd left out the loud public announcement system (which is the terror of all fests ;-). Lots of booths, and I wish I'd kept the handout with the names of all the companies there (someone got a list?). Burke&Burke showed up from Washington state, in fact! It was definitely an OS9 oriented show, or seemed that way to me and others. The hardware highlight of course was the showing of the new machines: the MM/1, PT68K4, and TC70/TC9. They only had one large room set aside for seminars, which meant they sometimes had to be cut short. I watched bits of the Future-of-Rainbow one, and Bjork's CoCo-History. My own BS session lasted from 6pm-9pm Saturday night (failed to set a record by 1/2 hour :-)... I must congratulate all 400 people who stuck around since I forgot to give breaks once in a while! I think we'd have kept on all night long if we hadn't all been without sleep for days. I'd like to hear others' impressions of the fest... as always, my view was somewhat limited. But I thought it was one of the best. There are 2 Replies. #: 7277 S15/Hot Topics 10-Oct-90 20:57:00 Sb: #7273-#CoCoFest Report Fm: Dan Robins 73007,2473 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kev, I've got one of the bulletins at the office, I'll post the list of vendors tommorow if someone doesn't beat me to it. Dan There is 1 Reply. #: 7283 S15/Hot Topics 11-Oct-90 00:43:41 Sb: #7277-CoCoFest Report Fm: Michael P. Brown 76220,1014 To: Dan Robins 73007,2473 (X) I too have the list, but since Dan has already volunteered... I really had a great time at the fest - it's great to be able to put a face and a voice to these messages now. Since this was my first fest, I have no way to compare to RainbowFests, but it was all I had hoped it would be (and the room service wasn't bad, either.) I sure hope I can make it to another one sometime. Charles West (ignore the name above... it's my partner's account) #: 7337 S15/Hot Topics 13-Oct-90 14:21:27 Sb: #7273-#CoCoFest Report Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kevin...VERY glad you could join us at Atlanta! Wish I'd had a moment to actually meet you, but as you can imagine, I had my hands rather full most of the time ;-). I just wanted to shed a little light on some of your observations about the 'fest. The rationale behind having only ONE seminar room was the avoidance of a dilemma facing attendees of the Falsoft shows...having a hard choice between two seminars one is interested in, that happen to be running concurrently (or overlapping in part). By and large, the feedback I have recieved from the attendees bore this out to be a popular approach. I DO agree that some of the seminars were forced to run a bit short due to these constraints, and next year we will schedule one or two less seminars in order to relax the scheduling a bit. At least we knew well enough to avoid putting YOU in the position of having to run short ...and inciting a riot in the process! We too were relatively pleased with the turnout, although we did do a bit more in the way of advertising than you apparently realize. We ran 3 months of ads in Rbow, incessant promo on BBS', got a bit of press in the OSK'er, and did a 1500-piece direct mailing to known CoCo and/or OS-9 users in the Eastern U.S. No big deal at this juncture, but I guess I just want to let vendors know that we DID do everything possible to ensure maximum attendance, given the As far as the "loud" P.A....well, what can I say! ;-) I was not aware that the volume was excessive, but wish that you (or someone) would have mentioned it if it were. At least we didn't use it to announce picture sessions with Goober the CoCo Cracker . Ol' Goob was busy enough on his own, anyway. If you would like a showguide or three, I do have some left. If you e-mail me your address, I'd be happy to mail you one. Again, thanks for the kind words. I'm glad that you (and all) had a good time, and hope to meet you there next year! Thanks for joining us! Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products There is 1 Reply. #: 7343 S15/Hot Topics 13-Oct-90 15:13:45 Sb: #7337-#CoCoFest Report Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336 To: Dave Myers 71750,210 (X) Dave, lemme jump in here to say Thanks for arranging the Atlanta Fest. I had a good time and enjoyed the yearly renewal of contacts in person. Best Regards, Ches. There is 1 Reply. #: 7399 S15/Hot Topics 15-Oct-90 23:09:27 Sb: #7343-CoCoFest Report Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210 To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X) Thanks, Ches! VERY glad you could join us! A pleasure seeing you, as always. Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products #: 7291 S7/Telecommunications 11-Oct-90 20:19:02 Sb: #uucp utility Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 To: all Greeting- I just uploaded one of my utilities that was not done in time to make it with the rest of the uucp package. it is called uutry and works simmilar to the unix program of the same name. It kills tsmon on the correct port then starts uucico then restarts tsmon after uucico is done with the call. I use it out of cron to automate my calls to other sites. It runs setuid to root to allow any user to force a poll to a remote machine. I gave it that feature so Suzanne could force polls to my Sun at work. BTW if anyone in the New York metro area needs a uucp feed I would be happy to oblige. wa3yre has 2 good network connections. On another note if anyone in the New York area wants net mail or wants to get the os9 mailing list, but they do not want uucp they should also contact me. I figure no time like the present to see how much this little old 6809 can handle! -Brett uucp...........hombre!marob!davidge!wa3yre!wynkoop direct.........212-942-0846 Login: guest /ex There is 1 Reply. #: 7352 S7/Telecommunications 14-Oct-90 05:15:05 Sb: #7291-#uucp utility Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 (X) how can I get access to a USENET node. I am in Atlanta and I do not know of any USENET nodes as of yet. There is 1 Reply. #: 7450 S7/Telecommunications 16-Oct-90 22:12:14 Sb: #7352-uucp utility Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X) ~ Greeting- I do not know any contacts in your area, but I am sure there are uucp sites there. Many companies and Universities run unix and have uucp up and running. If you want to call New York I am setting my machine up as a uucp gateway. -Brett uucp..........hombre!marob!davidge!wa3yre!wynkoop direct........212-942-0846 login: guest #: 7296 S1/General Interest 11-Oct-90 21:44:03 Sb: #1 Meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) I've recently completed the 1 meg upgrade; installation checks out with MEMTEST; new modules have been created properly according to IDENT. however.... Only grfdrv wants to load into memory properly, not vdgint. First I unlinked the resident grfdrv and then loaded in the new patched version. IDENT showed the new module to be in memory. But trying the same approach with vdgint.io did not work. IDENT showed the old module didn't unlink. I assume this is because vdgint is loaded in on initial startup, being contained within OS9BOOT. Modpatch didn't seem to work, reporting only - unable to open file . How does one get the new vdgint.io into memory? -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7300 S1/General Interest 12-Oct-90 03:05:06 Sb: #7296-#1 Meg upgrade Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Paul - you're right: a module in the boot can't be unlinked. Replacing one that's in use is also a bad idea. You'll need to edit your bootlist to point to the new vdgint file, and os9gen a new boot. Place the new grfdrv in your CMDS dir. Then the next time you boot, you'll end up using the newer stuff. Yell if need help. best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7346 S1/General Interest 13-Oct-90 20:29:16 Sb: #7300-#1 Meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) I finally got the right modules into OS9 boot. The system boots up well and I'm doing some experimenting with the new memory. Most of what I tried has worked well. Spent most of the day at it. So far, what hasn't worked is a ramdisk, DeskMate, & MV. Do these require special modules other than those for regular OS9? Is is possible these applications don't yet work with the upgrade? -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7349 S1/General Interest 13-Oct-90 21:24:34 Sb: #7346-#1 Meg upgrade Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Paul - MV should work for sure. I'd think that DM-3 does also... do you have the patched VD (oops) patched VDGInt in your boot? Some old ramdisks (especially my rammer) won't work with 1-meg. There should be replacements in the lib here, I'm pretty sure. Or the DevPak ramdisk will work. There are 2 Replies. #: 7355 S1/General Interest 14-Oct-90 07:45:01 Sb: #7349-#1 Meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) I had been using ramdisk128 & ramdisk192, I believe from Spectrum Projects - they no longer work. But ram.8k does seem to work without modification but it has low capacity unless one changes the number of cylinders with DMODE. How is this done, and where does one find DMODE? Well, as for DM-3 and MV, I'll go back and re-check my work. -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7380 S1/General Interest 15-Oct-90 13:00:19 Sb: #7355-1 Meg upgrade Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Look in Lib 9 and/or Lib 10 for Dmode. There's source and there's a binary. I believe the binary is called DMODE.BIN. Let us know what kind of errors/etc you run into with Gshell/DM-3. #: 7358 S1/General Interest 14-Oct-90 10:01:07 Sb: #7349-#1 Meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Can't get MV to work with the upgrade installed. Are you sure you meant to include the new vdgint module and not the new grfdrv, since vdgint doesn't seem to be in the original MV. Anyways, I tried it both ways and got OS9 BOOT FAILED . I used buildmv to create a new boot disk each time. (assuming I eventually get to the step where the MV disk is flipped over, does one edit the env.file to set MEM=1024?) How's 'bout someone posting a doc file on how to get things going? (thought I almost had it one time, having discovered some crc's on the boot disk. trashed the old one and started anew, but ng too) -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7381 S1/General Interest 15-Oct-90 13:02:07 Sb: #7358-#1 Meg upgrade Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Ah. I bet you forgot to set the "e pe" attributes on the new Grfdrv when you placed it in your CMDS dir, maybe? Leave the MEM= at 512K... I don't think gshell knows about more (but will use it). There is 1 Reply. #: 7400 S1/General Interest 15-Oct-90 23:12:13 Sb: #7381-#1 Meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Aha, I didn't forget to set grfdrv attributes when modifying DM3; just forgot to put it on the disk entirely! So now DM3 loads and executes well. Tried only Calendar + data so far. But in 3 tries, after a few minutes, everything locked up and a cold start was necessary. Will experiment more tmw. and then on to MV! -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7404 S1/General Interest 16-Oct-90 00:18:16 Sb: #7400-#1 Meg upgrade Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) HAHAHA! Great grfdrv story... best I've heard! Okay, keep at it. But if things locked up after a while, make sure that's the new vdgint in memory. If it still locks up, you may have to add a resistor in where that jumper went on R21 (?). There is 1 Reply. #: 7411 S1/General Interest 16-Oct-90 07:00:50 Sb: #7404-#1 Meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) So regular DM3 uses vdgint and not grvdrv and MV uses grvdrv and not vdgint? And the new vdgint and grfdrv are needed for both DM3 & MV? So now where & how is the mega command supposed to be implented? I see no opportunity for invoking it in DM3. Maybe that's why it locked up? -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7418 S1/General Interest 16-Oct-90 16:10:18 Sb: #7411-#1 Meg upgrade Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) mega should be run in your startup procedure file. DM3 requires vdgint since it runs in a VDG type window. GrfInt in required for any non-VDG type window. GrfInt requires GrfDrv. WindInt is a module who's command set is a "superset" of GrfInt. WindInt therefore replaces GrfInt. WindInt is required to run the Graphics Shell GShell, which comes with Multi-Vue. WindInt comes with Multi-Vue. WindInt, like it's predecessor GrfInt, also requires the services of GrfDrv. If you upgrade to 1Meg, you will need to patch GrfDrv if you expect to use non-VDG type windows and you will need to patch VdgInt if you expect to use VDG type windows. VdgInt and either GrfInt or WindInt goes in your bootlist. GrfDrv has severe physical memory positioning requirements and therefore must not be part of the OS9Boot file, but loaded in individually when GrfInt or WindInt first needs it. Zack There is 1 Reply. #: 7434 S1/General Interest 16-Oct-90 18:39:18 Sb: #7418-1 Meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) Zack, Thanks for the info. I'll let it percolate for a while and re-try booting MV. Yes, I made the new patches correctly since I have no problem using the upgrade with a regular OS9 boot and I did place the modules correctly for OS9 it seems. The MFREE shows about 880k with an initial 80 column text window and a couple extra modules loaded at the same time. btw. did I mention I got /d2 to work with MV too. (afterthought- would OS9, MV, & DM3 patched for 1meg be expected to work for a regular 512k CoCo-3?) -ph- #: 7302 S7/Telecommunications 12-Oct-90 09:10:09 Sb: #Help modpatch Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 To: ALL Hi, I have never used modpatch before. The Telstar manual suggest making the patch: modpatch 1 aciapak c 383 46 3c How would I go about doing this? Thanks, Butch Mooney There is 1 Reply. #: 7303 S7/Telecommunications 12-Oct-90 09:24:33 Sb: #7302-Help modpatch Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 (X) Butch... type "modpatch -?" for a help message. Also read MODPAT.TXT in Lib 10 here (if it's still around). However, try this: Type: modpatch -s (this means silent mode) (then wait until it's in memory and type:) L aciapak (that links to aciapak module) C 0383 46 3c (that changes byte at offset $383 from $46 to $3C) V (that reverifies aciapak module) CTRL-BREAK ("ESCape" leaves modpatch like end-of-file) Now aciapak is changed and reverified, which means you now need to save it back out to disk. If you don't have save, look in Lib 9 here I think. Or: if you are willing to change aciapak on bootup each time (instead of saving out as above and making a new bootdisk with the patched module), type the above 3 lines (L,C,V lines) into a text file, and you should be able to put "modpatch filename" (filename = the text filename) in your Startup file... and it'll be run each time you boot. Yell if not clear. Experiment a bit first and see what happens. #: 7306 S7/Telecommunications 12-Oct-90 16:53:25 Sb: #UUCP.AR Fm: Rodney Harper 75130,1321 To: All What is UUCP.AR ?? Is it a Term program ? >>Rod<< There are 2 Replies. #: 7312 S7/Telecommunications 12-Oct-90 21:46:43 Sb: #7306-UUCP.AR Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Rodney Harper 75130,1321 (X) It's not a terminal program. It's an archive of a collection of programs that make it possible for computers that use a particular protocol to send one another files. Using it, computers running OS-9/6809 Level Two can hook into a very large collection of systems collectively called USENET. #: 7321 S7/Telecommunications 13-Oct-90 05:04:43 Sb: #7306-UUCP.AR Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Rodney Harper 75130,1321 (X) Hi Rodney! uucp is an acronym and stands for Unix to Unix Copy Protocol. It comes with Unix/Xenix and now we have it for OS9 and OSK. The package comprises many programs allowing one to write, send, receive and read mail and to transfer files to/from any site similarly equipped throughout the world. Normally, connections are made to nearby sites (mostly colleges and universities and that site will transfer to an adjacent site and so forth until the mail/file is delivered (may take several days or even weeks). UUCP is not interactive with you terminal. It is normally invoked as a background task by 'cron' and proceeds on its merry way executing instructions you have previously entered. Also, assuming you leave your computer and modem on all the time, other sites can call you and pickup/ leave mail and files. It's really a great package and Mark Griffith deserves acolades galore for his efforts. If you decide to try it, there are several of us on the forumn who use it and will be glad to assist you getting started. I suggest you pull it down and read the docs - they tell you much more. Ed #: 7311 S7/Telecommunications 12-Oct-90 19:58:43 Sb: #HELP Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin, Thanks for the help I will give it a try. Let me ask you about one other problem. I'm using OS9 Level II, Telstar, and DynaStar. Being a section leader on the Pets Forum I uploaded a announcement. CIS's Manager's Manual says to use a hard at the end of each line. That is what I thought I was doing when I hit the enter key at the end of each line with DynaStar. But not so, the announcement was not what I wrote. I did the same thing with RS-DOS and Word Power and the announcement was just as I made it. Why couldn't I do this with DynaStar? Can I change one of the filters in Telstar to correct this problem? Thanks, Butch Mooney There is 1 Reply. #: 7317 S7/Telecommunications 12-Oct-90 23:52:14 Sb: #7311-HELP Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 (X) Butch - Hmmm. Have to find someone using Telstar to answer that. Yes, the key should put a hard in all the editors I know. Perhaps Telstar is placing a LF in there also? Easy way to check: do you have a dump or ded util to look at the file you have on disk? Look at the file and see if you see 0D (returns) in there where you expect them. #: 7313 S1/General Interest 12-Oct-90 22:21:14 Sb: #HELP Fm: DICK SHARP 75266,2621 To: SYSOP (X) I keep hearing the wd MULTIVIEused and see a number of programs that require MULTIVIEW to opperate. Just what is it. TANDY calls it a graphics interface (HUH???? . Also being new to OS9 i am wondering about the ARC (actually de-arc) programs to unpack the files. Is this a bound unit that runs under OS9 or a machine language file that runs under RSDOS. One more question please. I am rung MTERM ,and how do I save files that are to be run under the OS9 system;must I have a OS9 formatted disk or RSDOs. Every question seems to generate another one but I will stop here for now. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Dick Sharp There are 2 Replies. #: 7318 S1/General Interest 13-Oct-90 00:00:05 Sb: #7313-#HELP Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: DICK SHARP 75266,2621 (X) Hi Dick. Multi-Vue is an additional package from RS which gives you two main things to play with... first, the enhanced Windint module to replace your current GrfInt modules (Windint adds pulldown menus, etc)... and second, the GShell (gfx shell) programs if you wish to start things with icons etc. The AR archiver program most often used here for files, is specific to OS9. It's available in Lib 9 (utils) under the name AR09.BIN and AR.DOC. We'll be glad to help with its usage. Virtually nothing here in this forum runs under RSDOS, with the exception of a tool to make RSDOS disks readable under OS9... which is what you need for transfering files using MTerm. Look in Lib 10 (coco) here for RSDOS.BAS (I think!... it's RSDOS.???) which is the rsdos basic program to do this. Then you can download under rsdos (until you get comfortable with/get an os9 term program) and run that program to create an os9 directory on the rsdos disk. You then boot to os9 and copy the files to a real os9 disk. I hope someone jumps in with the real filename for that util. Guys?? There is 1 Reply. #: 7332 S1/General Interest 13-Oct-90 09:53:27 Sb: #7318-#HELP Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) I think the util that you're talking about is DOSOR9, isn't it? Lee There is 1 Reply. #: 7347 S1/General Interest 13-Oct-90 21:22:10 Sb: #7332-HELP Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X) Oops. Right... DOSOR9.BAS it is. Thanks Lee! #: 7325 S1/General Interest 13-Oct-90 08:59:14 Sb: #7313-#HELP Fm: Bruce MacKenzie 71725,376 To: DICK SHARP 75266,2621 (X) Dick, What you need to get you going downloading os9 files with an rsdos term program is the file DOSOR9.BAS in library 10. This is an rsdos utility which writes an os9 directory on a rsdos disk making it readable under os9. With this you can download files to a fresh rsdos disk, run the utility and then copy the files to an os9 disk under os9. I would suggest that the first thing you do once you have downloaded DOSOR9 is to use it to download one of the os9 based file inport/export utilities in the library (such as RSDOS.AR in library 9) then forget about DOSOR9 since it is a bit clumsy to use. There is 1 Reply. #: 7540 S1/General Interest 18-Oct-90 21:55:54 Sb: #7325-HELP Fm: DICK SHARP 75266,2621 To: Bruce MacKenzie 71725,376 (X) Thanks all for your help. I am going to look int"WARP ONE " by Alpha Software. It is a OS-9 terminal package. Dick. #: 7316 S15/Hot Topics 12-Oct-90 23:30:04 Sb: #Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: all All, Any reactions on the Fest in Atlanta that y ou would like to pass on to me and the folks at IMS? We want to know what you thought, and how we might b e able to serve you a little better. BTW congrats to DINAH PHILLIPS, who won a Personal MM/1, and called recently to upgrade it to an Extended! Paul There are 3 Replies. #: 7322 S15/Hot Topics 13-Oct-90 05:18:45 Sb: #7316-#Fest Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Well...let's see. I was highly impressed. (Were I less inhibited, I'd probably jump up and down and say "I want my MM/1," but I know you're working as hard as possible to get them out the door, so that really wouldn't help anyway. :-) There is 1 Reply. #: 7420 S15/Hot Topics 16-Oct-90 17:20:39 Sb: #7322-Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Actually, the jumping up and down greatly excites our sales director, Mary Kay. She likes positive vibes from our burgeoning MM/1 constituency! Paual Oops, Paul. #: 7324 S15/Hot Topics 13-Oct-90 08:08:59 Sb: #7316-#Fest Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Hi Paul, I didn't make it to the Atlanta 'Fest, but I have already seen a lot of messages from those who did (here and on D****I and some local boards via various national relays. The MM1 seems to have made a big hit. Lots of comments on it (and FHL's machines). Also more messages about OS9 in general. BTW - the money that I DIDN'T spend on airline tickets, Atlanta Hotel room, etc, will buy memory and a hard disk for MY MM/1. (Soon, I hope). Best, JohnW There are 2 Replies. #: 7421 S15/Hot Topics 16-Oct-90 17:24:36 Sb: #7324-#Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X) Interesting - FHL had some Hazelwood KBus cards on display, but no TC9 or TC70. Delmar, a reseller for Peripheral Technologies, had systems there. I have heard that OS-9 on them can be flaky (hopefully they are more stable than the one I have used!) but those VGA graphics looked great. About the same res as the MM/1, but the contrast was nicer than on our CM-8/Multisync. Still, VGA is NOT NTSC compatible, so you'd be out of luck with a PTif you wanted to save your stuff on tape. It looks like PT and IMS will be doing some business together, too. They seem eager and competent and pleased to be working with us to provide some support to our growing OSK community! Exciting times! Paul There are 2 Replies. #: 7465 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 15:53:56 Sb: #7421-#Fest Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul: I was appalled to read your message to John Wainwright (message #7421). It appears that your marketing strategy is based on Madison Ave's first tenet, "appeal to the 85 per cent". (From Thomas A Edison's, "Five per cent of the people think, ten per cent of the people think they think and eighty-five per cent of the people would rather die than think".) Statements like 'I have heard' and 'flaky' say nothing concrete but can certainly have some very negative connotations. If there are problems with your PT, what are they? I understand you purchased your PT second hand. The original buyer put it together from a kit. Also, if we have traced things properly, he received version 1.4 of OS9/68000 - a version of OS9/68000 replete with problems regardless of the machine on which it was installed. We are currently shipping version 2.3 and will ship version 2.4 when it is released. What have you heard about the SYSTEM IV? If you really want to know about the SYSTEM IV, why don't you buy one? We will certainly be happy to sell you one and we can deliver *immediately*. You used the term 'CM-8/Multisync'. I was not aware that the CM-8 is a multisync monitor. The CM-8, as provided by Tandy, is a 300 x 225 monitor. Tricks can be played to make it look like as good as a higher resolution monitor, but it can still only display low resolution graphics. Or, are you refering to the Magnavox monitor? While better than the Tandy CM-8, it still does not approach accepted VGA standards. How many people want an NTSC output? Yes, you can video tape your output. Try reading a 80 character screen on a TV. That's why people went to monitors in the first place and if 80 character is hard to read, how good can the graphics be? The 68070/66470 chip set does support NTSC capability but the trade-off is a compromise of the graphics capability so it is not as good as VGA provides. Since the SYSTEM IV allows the use of existing PC/XT boards, NTSC is available to the user (but we do not currently support NTSC boards). (continued next message) There is 1 Reply. #: 7466 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 15:54:47 Sb: #7465-#Fest Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) (continued from previous message) The entire community is still waiting to hear what is in the $600.00 worth of 'free software' you are bundling with your machine. I haven't heard much about that lately, did you drop that offer? Also, about a month ago, you refered to a 'K4 killer'. What is it - where is it? If our machine is as poor as you intimate, you have nothing to worry about - word will get around very quickly. You have engaged in a great deal of competitor bashing - first against Frank Hogg Laboratories and now against DELMAR. Actually, I guess we should be flattered. It is apparant that you are worried that our machines may be superior to the MM/1 and want to instill, in the 85%, fears about your competition. If you have facts, then please state them. You are not yet in a position to make comparisons of the various machines since your machine is *NOT* in production nor have you delivered any production units (unless you count units built by hand on a 'kitchen table'). Of course, you *HAVE* delivered a lot of hype! Therefore, you do not know what problems will occur with the MM/1 in the field. Neither DELMAR nor PERIPHERAL TECHNOLOGY will make claims they cannot support. Nor do we make advertising claims about what we might do in the future. There is a market place for all of the entries. Engaging in competitor bashing will serve only to destroy the market place and not serve anyone's interests. Go ahead, make your claims - I sincerely hope the MM/1 will live up to them, but if it doesn't, be prepared for your competitors to talk about your failures. If you find a problem with a competitor's product then talk about the problem - but otherwise, ".... people who live in glass houses ....". (continued) There is 1 Reply. #: 7467 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 15:56:24 Sb: #7466-#Fest Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) (continued from previous message) I have a great deal of respect for your technical people and want to continue working with them. I must empathise with them if they have to back up your claims. However, the ethical standards you are following are causing us to review the desirability of our continuing any association with you or IMS. I can only assume that your close proximaty to the politicians in Washington has influenced your standards. Our mutual interests center around providing our customers with real software (not vaporware). May we expect some professionalism from you and your company in the future? Ed Gresick DELMAR CO There is 1 Reply. #: 7486 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 22:14:00 Sb: #7467-#Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, Although I will respond to your message to me in the order in which the topics appeared in your note, I want to make several global points. Never have I said anything untrue in our marketing "hype". Second, I have always been a gentleman to you and to all the people that have worked on the MM/1 project. All you have to do is ask any of them. Third, I apologize if you think I slammed the PT technology at all. I >DO< have a PT and it is pretty fast. It needs some driver work in a serious way, though. A friend of mine runs OSK on his own PT and his hard drive just crashed. Now, just because there are problems with some machines, does not mean that the PT line is at fault, and I WAS NOT USING COMPUSERVE AS A FORUM TO SLAM YOUR PRODUCT. Period. Now, I would like to respond to your note, and if I run on, I will do as you did, and make the note from Paul Ward to Paul Ward, just to help you get the stuff in bite-size chunks. OK, you are right. I have not heard a thing about the system iv. I have a K2, and it is an older design, as you know, probably with older drivers. (Of course, please don't go slamming the MM/1 because it is new. After all, if I cannot comment on your machine without having worked with it, you cannot do the same.) Also, I DO NOT think that 85% of the people do not think. You and I have talked enough for you to know that I am a respectful person. Especially of the customers. This is why IMS is doing what it is doing, and I will GLADLY discuss on the phone with you why it is ultimately an act of respect to our customers that 1) we are doing things with OSK that have never been done before, in terms of ease of use and innovative applications in the home and business, 2) we are offering a highly integrated and affordable system, 3) that I have traveled to Texas and Silicon Valley to successfully get companies to port stuff to the MM/1. When I said CM8/Multisync, I meant CM-8 or Multisync. That was a typgraphic problem, sorry if it was deceptive. About reading 80 columns on a TV -- I would be glad to send you a whole stack of articles on a hot new There is 1 Reply. #: 7487 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 22:17:47 Sb: #7486-#Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) subject called Corporate Desktop Video -- in general, desktop video will become a nice new hobby for business and pleasure alike. IMS is creating multimedia authoring tools that integrate nicely with the 66470 and our stereo sound/MIDI that should make putting natural images, voice, and music on video tape a snap. So your comment about 80 column text on a TV is exactly true, but not relevant to what I was getting at. OTOH, I recall mentioning the NTSC thing as a way of distinguishing PT's VGA output with ours -- so I was doing some marketing. VGA looks great, Ed! And personally, if I caould get VGA quality with an NTSC compatible output for cheap -- I'd do it! However, the 66470 gives results similar to VGA and still makes desktop video viable. There is 1 Reply. #: 7491 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 22:26:18 Sb: #7487-#Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) OK, the software that we include has been in our brochures and on Compuserve for months, Ed. Here is a list. Included at no extra charge with the MM/1: OSK 2.3 (2.4 when it stabilizes), but also with the prerelease version of variable sector size RBF. C compiler, Basic, Assembler, two telecom packages, uucp, Network File Manager, PC File Manager, Sequential Block File Manager, graphics editor, text editor, print spooling, network mail system, full utilities set, and demos. Also included will be discount coupons on some software by members in our Interactive Media Systems Developer's Assocation. I actually refrained from competition bashing for months, Ed, until I got sick and tired of being bashed myself. It is VERY frustrating keeping absolutely silent while competitors lie and make faces. However, please note that NOTHING I said about your machine was actually bad. I even said that VGA looks great in that original note! And also note that when I mentioned the flaky OSK on the K2, it was based on first hand experience with a productionboard. That doesn't mean that the K4 will be flaky at all. Yes, I have delivered hype. However, hype with performance. Signetics was significantly impressed that they asked IMS to send our system to California for an applications engineers conference in Silicon Valley. And we will be offering QuickBasic. And we will be offering a GUI -- and so on. Not everything happens at once, and if we kept quiet about what we were working on, IMS and all the rest would risk losing a market that is very unique. There is 1 Reply. #: 7494 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 22:33:29 Sb: #7491-#Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Ed, and while we're on it, I want to mention that the machines at the Fest were production designs. If we were to have a large stock of production mass manufactured machines sitting in a warehouse while FCC approval is still in the works, we would by tying up capital. That is bad business, as you know. I hope that clarifies that! BTW, we at IMS TRULY believe that the OSK market can and will take off. That is why we are getting our systems FCC approved, a tedious process that starts int he design phase with ferite beads on the connectors, appropriate case choice, and so on. This is not Hype, Ed. FCC approval means business. The hand assembled production design machines have been in the field for two months with no problems at all. This is why we feel great about our warranty. I am truly sorry that you think that I am not acting professionally. I think maybe I overstepped my bounds by providing some background experience with an older K2 to someone on the forum. If that offended you or your company, I am deeply sorry. Once again, I thnk everyone who knows me would disagree with your assessment that DC politics have affected me negatively. I and the other folks here are truly trying to do good honest work. If you have specific suggestions about how I can do this work better, please let me know! What is vaporware, by the way, of the things IMS has promised? Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7512 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 08:23:04 Sb: #7494-#Fest Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, Re your PT - have you contacted Peripheral Technology regarding upgrades to your system? PT has made available to its customers upgrades to the software they provided including the Operating System. Some are provided at no charge and the rest at a nominal charge. DELMAR will continue this practice for purchasers of the SYSTEM IV. Regarding my ignorance of what you are offering. On at least two occassions, in private conversations, you promised to put me on your mailing list to receive your newsletter. I have yet to receive the first one. I hope you will refrain from comments about the SYSTEM IV in the future unless you have *FACTS* including details. Please note that neither I as an individual nor DELMAR CO has ever referred to the MM/1 in public forumn prior to my message to you. Nor have we made any reference to the MM/1 in our announcements or advertising. I do not intend to in the future unless compelled to. And, I don't really remember anyone 'bashing' the MM/1 although many members of this forumn have asked you questions about your machine. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 7563 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 18:06:32 Sb: #7512-#Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, Per our excellent and production conversation on the phone today, I want to extend my unconditional apology to you, DELMAR, Fred Brown, the the and the SIGops of CompuServe for allowing a comment to come from my keyboard that 1) Made a statement about the problems experienced with K2 systems from PT without accompanyint CONSTRUCTIVE information 2) Hinted at marketing hype (although intermixed with some facts), even though I have long believed, as you do too, that the Forum is no place for marketing hype, and certainly no place for the President of one company to create uncertainty about the products of another. I am sorry I goofed. I have tried to keep the high road in the past, as many of our friends know well. They, and I, are surprises at what I did. So, in the future, I'll be more careful, and aware that the role that I play here, and that IMS plays, should be an example of gentlemanliness. And, I must say, Ed, it is a pleasure to have spoken with you, cleared this up, and made it possible for us to continue what has been a longstanding relationship based on openness and respect. Best regards, Paul Ward President Interactive Media Systems, Reformed Talk to you soon! There is 1 Reply. #: 7589 S15/Hot Topics 20-Oct-90 04:24:43 Sb: #7563-Fest Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 Paul, Apology accepted. Now, go back to work and make some MM/1s - you have customers waiting. Ed #: 7478 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 20:53:38 Sb: #7421-#Fest Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul Don't you think it's time to cut this crap and stop the lies about FHL, the Tomcat and what we are doing. You know full well that we had both a TC9 display prototype and a TC70 working prototype at the show! Your own Kevin Pease was at our booth and spent quite a bit of time examining both of them. Why do you insist on telling these kind of lies! This is not the first time you have made off the wall statements that are not true. I know that you are not technical nor a programmer and cannot be expected to be correct in matters of that kind but this does not explain your incessant use of lies when talking about FHL. For someone who has yet to deliver even one product you seem to spend a lot of time putting down those of us who have been in business and delivering product for years. Before you make any more negative comments about what I am doing I suggest you put up or shut up! Better yet... Put up AND shut up! This coming December I will start my FIFTHEENTH year in business! You're new and only in business a few months. I don't think the guys who have been around appreciate your approach to doing business. If they see you lying about your competition they will think you are lying about your own product. Seeing that you have yet to deliver on any of your many claims this could be a disaster for you. Maybe this tactic will work for awhile, but not for long. Who was it that said you could fool some of the people some of the time etc etc. Clean up your act and tell the truth or say nothing. If your MM1 is any good it will speak for itself and this kind of BS will not be necessary. Best of luck Frank Hogg There is 1 Reply. #: 7496 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 22:44:23 Sb: #7478-#Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) Frank, First, I want to apologize to you deeply. I was told by Kevin Pease and two others that you had neither machine at the Fest and working. I was told that, instead, you had your KBus systems there, and as we both know, KBus systems have been around for a while and are in good use. I personally did not have a chance to stop by your booth and examine it, and I should in fact have kept my mouth shut. However, please recall that I did have several independent sources say that you had neither system at the Fest, and it was an assumption that was further reinforced by your comment at our seminar that you were unprepared for the Fest. Once again, I am deeply sorry for the error. If anyone who was at the Fest would kindly upload a report on the TC9 and TC70 that they saw -- running or not -- at the Fest, I would read it with great interest. In the future, I know I can trust you to spot these errors on my part, and I for one am delighted that so many people got to see your machines at the Fest -- assuming of course they were there, and I have no way of knowing either way since I did not get over there. I do wonder how the other folks at the Fest were so uniformly mistaken? Can you clear this up? As for vaporware, please note that we had several demos, games, and windowed IFF and GIF viewers at our booth, thanks to the hard work of several developers, who have been using MM/1s since April. If I used the term vaporware with regard to your system (I don't think I did), I am sorry -- I certainly understand that your TC70 and TC9 are coming along, and will be ready sometime soon. I don't call works in progress vaporware. Nor should you -- we have many works in progress at IMS, including home networking, WYSIWYG library support, graphics and animation, and so on. When they are ready, they are ready! They would only be vaporware if we announced them as shipping and we were lying! Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7506 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 00:42:55 Sb: #7496-#Fest Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, I accept your apology. Now if you would just not mention FHL, the Tomcats or make any comments about same you would make me very happy. I in turn will not say anything about your MM1. Let's let them stand on their own and let the guys who use tham talk. I will upload complete information on both the TC9 and TC70 when I am ready to do so. BTW what 'other folks' are you talking about, name them please. I cannot clear up what your comment refers to unless I know what you are talking about. As far as people at the fest seeing the TC9 and TC70, I am sure not all of them did, after all I was mobbed in the booth the whole show and could not have been able to show everyone there. You, Ed I, and everyone else would be better served if we spent our time getting these machines out instead wasting time here with this BS. Please be cautious in the future to either get your facts straight or say nothing, I don't want to have to waste another evening like this. Enough said! Good luck with the MM1. Frank There is 1 Reply. #: 7580 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 23:25:34 Sb: #7506-Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) Frank, And good luck with your TC9 and TC70! I agree, this has truly been a waste of time and energy! Well, I guess it goes to show that even a courteous person like myself can be discourteous -- advertently, as I did with Ed, or inadvertently, as I did with you -- on occasion. As I said, sorry about that. I am pleased to be picking up and moving on, as you are! Paul #: 7477 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 20:53:01 Sb: #7324-#Fest Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317 To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X) Dear John In Paul Wards message #7421 to you he made statements about FHL that were lies. We had both a display TC9 and a working prototype of the TC70 at the Atlanta show. Kevin Pease, an employee of IMS and designer of the MM1 spent quite a bit of time examining both of them. Kevin even ran his benchmark on one of the running production Tomcats at the booth where it ran about 50% faster than the MM1. This is not the first time Mr Ward has made false statements about us here on CIS and other places. I don't know why he lies about us but it does show his colors. Therefore I would suggest you take that into consideration whenever he makes any claims about us, other companies, or even his own products. Remember that IMS has only been in business for a few months and so far they have not delivered anything. On the other hand their hype about their product and negative comments about us and others has been prolific. Let the buyer beware, as the saying goes. There has always been strong competition in the OS9 world. There was even a time when it was almost this raw. I would prefer to keep things on a higher level and have been quiet till now. But outright lies have to be addressed, I wish I did not have to waste my time and yours with this kind of crap. Perhaps, as a buyer of an MM1 you could suggest to Paul that this is not in his best interest nor in the best interest of the OS9 community. Best of luck to you. Frank Hogg There is 1 Reply. #: 7499 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 23:13:55 Sb: #7477-#Fest Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) Frank, As I have already said to both Ed and Paul in private mail, and now I am saying not only to you, but to all three of you in the public forum: You are hurting the OS9 community with all of this public bickering over differences in each of your systems. If each of you would stick to specifics of EXACTLY what your OWN systems do and do not support, and REFRAIN from mentioning any of the other systems, then all of us would benefit. All three of you are starting to sound like spoiled children, instead of the intelligent businessmen that I know you are. Bill There are 4 Replies. #: 7505 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 00:32:31 Sb: #7499-#Fest Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Hear Hear I agree with you on all counts and I wish that the circumstances did not occur that brought this on. However now that it has come to a head I for one hope that it is over. I do not expect to have to do this again unless forced to answer another untruth. I would prefer that the facts about what I am doing came from me rather that translated untruths from others. Perhaps now that will happen. Your message will not fall on deaf ears I am sure. BTW shouldn't this public message have been sent to Paul. Frank There are 2 Replies. #: 7510 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 07:57:43 Sb: #7505-Fest Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) Frank, It was to all three of you, look at the first sentence in the message. I was NOT picking on you, and I'm NOT taking sides, your message was the one I just happened to reply to. Bill #: 7576 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 23:01:16 Sb: #7505-Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) No need to send it to me, Frank! I responded! And I am glad, too, that we got a reminder to keep the forum clean and gentlemanly. I truly meant it when I said that I did not deliberately screw up -- but what happened, happened. Next time, I'll learn not to trust the folks who give me reports if I can't verify with my own eyes, and EVEN THEN -- as President of IMS -- I must needs keep my mouth shut, even if I am tempted to disclose something I feel strongly about. I think Ed and I patched things up nicely, BTW. It's good to be on gentlemanly terms with him. He's a great guy. Best regards, Paul #: 7507 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 02:34:11 Sb: #7499-#Fest Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) I don't think it hurts OS9 itself... just shows the (nervous :-) fervor of the various vendors. I agree, they should mention only their own system. That said, I'm now going to add my own public exasperation at all those very poorly thought out messages: To Paul (#7421) - You sure wrote a dumb message, eh? If you meant the PT68K2, you should've said so. Mentioning DELMAR in the same breath was wrong, too. And never say "but no TC9 or TC70" or "the contrast was nicer" etc... as a machine competitor you're obliged to add "I personally didn't see XXX" or "to me the contrast seemed nicer", etc, if you must say anything. To Ed (#7465-67) - A little overkill on the reply, wasn't there? Nothing like taking one sentence and turning it into a bash fest. You could, and should, have resolved this by phone or email. Also, your message noted that one OSK version was indeed flaky... which amusingly backed up his message. Lots more, but all in all you went way overboard. Oh, and "CM-8/multisync" was obvious to _everyone_ else as shorthand for "CM-8 or multisync". To Frank (#7477-78,7506) - CIS forum regulars try to assume that an honest or simple mistake was made, instead of calling someone a liar. Worse, vague accusations without backup facts is a no-no. Besides making YOU look bad, it also opens your messages for similar inspection: I saw no working TC70 prototype at the show, either. A supposedly working card which was never hooked up, yes. And sure, Pease ran his program on a 16Mhz 68000 K-Bus card; your message implied it was done on a TC70. Am I also a "liar"? Or just honestly mistaken? To all 3 - There is no need to point out that a competitor has dumped on your machine... readers are smart people. Please try to work out things behind the scenes, then post corrections in public. Even tho I work for all of you, I will not hesitate to singe the next one to step out of bounds. And by golly, my flames are hot and reach far ;-). Thanks! - kev There are 3 Replies. #: 7514 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 09:05:49 Sb: #7507-Fest Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kev and everyone, I reread my message about Kevin Pease and it said, "Kevin even ran his benchmark on one of the running production Tomcats at the booth where it ran about 50% faster than the MM1" I think the wording "running production Tomcats" made a clear distinction between it and the wording "working prototype of the TC70". I don't think this implied that they were the same and would be quite surprised if anyone could think that. I always try to be very clear about the comments I make so that there is never any misunderstanding. Perhaps this was a poor example of what you were trying to illustrate, that honest mistakes can be made. While I agree that this is the case most of the time, Paul's statement was the last in a line of things that taken together have not been taken for 'honest mistakes'. I don't think it would be a good idea to list them here so I won't, but I will in private to you or Paul if you would like, just give me a call. I certainly agree that this type of thing should be kept behind the scenes. Probably all of you feel that way. Remember that it was HIS message here in public that finally triggered the response it did. I haven't been on this forum for some time and although I may have made comments in the past, I do not believe they were as prolific nor as pointed as Paul's. It is annoying to have to be put in a position to either stay quiet and let these kind of things go or have to defend yourself against unfair attacks. I lose either way. Sometimes I think I would be better off ignoring all of the forums and just concentrate on work, it sure would be less aggravating. (continued) #: 7515 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 09:06:44 Sb: #7507-#Fest Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) (continued from last message) However perhaps this will do some good and cause Paul to think twice before making comments without thinking about how his wording will affect others. He is new to this while the rest of us have been doing this for many years and know how the game is played. If something positive comes out of this then it will have been worth it. I hope that this ends what has been an annoying waste of time for me. I do not enjoy this and hope that this message ends it. Frank There is 1 Reply. #: 7548 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 00:36:25 Sb: #7515-#Fest Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) Frank - please allow me to be plainer: As you indicated, unclear messages can appear to be intentionally misleading. So can wrong technical information, or even personal opinions. There's no debate there. It especially happens over electronic media. The problem from my forum standpoint with your and Ed's messages was that you both took a negative comment about HARDWARE, and replied not with clear corrective facts, but with PERSONAL attacks and innuendos... and I can't emphasize how petty, silly, mean and just plain off-the-point that was! I should know. I did it myself once many years back... and still regret it. In other words, if y'all want to beat up on each others' machines or opinions, I don't think most people would really mind. But there's a heckuva lot of difference between going into someone's store and saying "your merchandise doesn't work", versus telling the store owner that "you're a SOB". And worse, continuing in that vein more than once. As a businessman you should appreciate this difference a lot. thx and pax - kev There are 3 Replies. #: 7570 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 20:26:40 Sb: #7548-#Fest Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, You state that I am making personal attacks that are "petty, silly, mean and off-the-point." Isn't that the same as you saying that >I< am petty, silly, and mean. Isn't THAT a personal attack from you about ME? (heh heh) Frank There is 1 Reply. #: 7587 S15/Hot Topics 20-Oct-90 02:59:32 Sb: #7570-Fest Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) Frank - Nah, it's the same as saying that when _I_ engaged in personal attacks on this forum years ago, it was "petty, silly, mean, and off-the-point". Personal attacks didn't solve anything then... didn't help now. And that's partly the reason that tens of forums (here and elsewhere) over the past few years know this very well: a personal attack on _anyone_, friend or foe of mine, always results in me jumping on the attacker(s). Just figure it as Karma for my _own_ past mistakes . - kev #: 7571 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 20:27:13 Sb: #7548-Fest Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, You state that "you both took a negative comment about HARDWARE, and replied not with clear corrective facts, but with PERSONAL attacks and innuendos..." WRONG! His comments about me were not about hardware but his claim that I did not have two products at Atlanta when in fact I DID have them there! He said something incorrect about ME and MY COMPANY, not the hardware. His subtle inference by this statement was that because they were not there then maybe something was wrong... Why else would he even mention it? Could his intent have been to get that information out in a public forum where it might start a rumor or do some other damage? Why would he even mention it if this were not the case??? He also did the same thing in print when in his 1st newsletter he made another untrue statement that said in effect that FHL showed a computer at the Chicago Rainbowfest 'based on the discontinued GIMI chip'. As you know the GIMI is not discontinued and nobody bases a computer on a graphics chip anyway. Was his intent to discredit the Tomcat and FHL? If he wished to inform his readers then that was a very strange way to describe a competitors product. (continued) #: 7572 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 20:27:50 Sb: #7548-#Fest Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) (continued from last message) When a lawyer in court makes an incorrect statement the opposing lawyer jumps up and yells OBJECTION! OBJECTION! and the judge decides. The jury hears both sides. The lawyer who objects does not whisper his objection in the ear of the other lawyer. The 1st lawyer (Paul) said it to the jury (the forum) and because of that the 2nd lawyer (Me) had to jump up and yell so the jury (the forum) would know the truth. On this very public forum when one companies President makes a very serious statement that is untrue (a lie) then only a fool would remain silent. I jumped up and yelled LIE! LIE! because if I just quietly said something 'behind the scenes' then the lie would remain for hundreds (thousands?) to see. I regret having to use strong language like the word 'lie' but I felt I had to make sure that everyone who saw Paul's message would be SURE to know it was not true. If I felt it could have been done without that word I would have done so. I have a lot riding on this, it's not just a hobby, I hope you and everyone else understands how I feel. I have now wasted several days on this... I think it should now end, and everyone (you too Kevin) go back to work on their respective projects. Frank There is 1 Reply. #: 7588 S15/Hot Topics 20-Oct-90 02:59:55 Sb: #7572-Fest Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) Frank, Yah, it's been a fair waste of time (as we all four have talked about on the phone). A typical electronic media comedy of errors and over-reaction; something we all see now and again.... which is why I had said in my first message, that talking to the person you think has slighted you (or _has_ slighted you) by phone or email FIRST, makes a heckuva lot more sense :-). Certainly easier all around. I think that (as we talked about) a weekly phone call between you three would make even more sense... so that real and imagined grievances are taken care of immediately, instead of festering for months. You also brought up a good point when you said that Paul didn't yet realize that as a company President, he cannot afford to make the same verbal slips that anyone else can . A similar view came up when I had talked to Ed yesterday, as he was (and probably still is) convinced that my bashing on "Ed Gresick" is the same as slamming "DELMAR". Therefore I wonder if it wouldn't be better all around if all three of y'all changed your forum handles to your Company names? Or better yet , get a second CIS number? As we all have said tonight, live and learn! - kev #: 7573 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 20:59:02 Sb: #7507-#Fest Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kevin (& Paul, & Frank, & Ed) It just looks to me like some of the (previously) good-natured zaps that have been flying since the Chicago 'Fest caught a couple guys in a bad mood (bad day maybe?). When did everybody quit smiling? JohnW There is 1 Reply. #: 7577 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 23:12:19 Sb: #7573-Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X) Kevin, Oops, John, I mean (fingers are tired tonight!) I think I started this whole mess by tripping up when making a two comments right after the Fest. One was unfair to Ed, the other was an honest mistake about Frank's statements about the TC9 and TC70 being shown at the Fest. I think it is generally agreed that I, Ed, and Frank, have a responsibility to act to boost our own products and not to detract from the others. The two comments I made -- brief, and unknowingly bad form -- were a sign that I faltered from the usual high ground that I take. After reading the fallout comments that have been made bya all concerned, I have to agree that, myself included, the three of us have let some childishness slip in. So, in the spirit of picking up and moving on, I've put a smile back on my face, made up with Ed Gresick, and in general been trying to smooth things over. I think CompuServe's OS9 Forum gurus, especially Bill and Kevin, are right on the money when they take the position that we have screwed up, and I am grateful for the gentle slap. Paul #: 7511 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 08:21:19 Sb: #7499-#Fest Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill (and Kevin and Jim Jones), Yes, I was very upset by Paul Ward's statements. The costs to promote a new product are substantial. And Gentlemen, DELMAR CO is not using customer or invester money - it is coming out of my pocket! And let us not forget who made the statements in the first place. Paul Ward's statements were incomplete in the one case and totally false in the second. Over-reacted? Maybe - but with cause. I've noticed that Paul is still continuing his practice. In his response to me he stated "A friend of mine runs OSK on his own PT and his hard drive just crashed. Now, just because there are problems with some machines, does not mean that the PT line is at fault, ...". No details. Why even mention it if the PT line is not at fault unless the intent is to imply that maybe it is! I realize that you have a vested interest in IMS in one manner or another - but do remember, Paul's statements are bordering on product slander. Kevin - I've noticed that when someone has a problem, you ask for complete details to establish the cause of the problem. Wearing my marketeer hat, I feel completely justified in demanding similar details when a product I'm associated with has problems - what are the details so I can determine what is the cause and if correction is called for, do so. Paul Ward has yet to provide this information. I've had my say so let's go along with Frank's message (#7505) and get back to contructive work. Ed There are 4 Replies. #: 7530 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 17:58:33 Sb: #7511-#Fest Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Just a minor comment here, to avoid any possible misunderstanding...my interests in IMS are two: first, I have a deposit in on an MM/1; second, I wish them well, as I do *anyone* producing a computer that will run some version of OS-9. 'Nuff said--as you said, let's return to constructive work. There is 1 Reply. #: 7531 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 18:00:39 Sb: #7530-Fest Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Sigh--one last added item. (Sorry, folks.) Any and all opinions I express here are my opinions, and have no necessary correlation with those of any organization. #: 7549 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 00:37:03 Sb: #7511-Fest Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed - please see my msg #7548. BTW, one of the ads at your fest booth contained an insert containing benchmark comparisons with the older MM/1 prototypes. Where those not from your company? Or was your msg 7512 in error? I bring that up to simply point out that every one of us has skeletons and so-called "falsehoods" hanging around. I'm sure that _anyone's_ messages could be picked apart and made out to be deliberate slander: I'm also politely suggesting that correcting Paul's statement could have been done without spending three message slots dredging up every negative statement you could think of... a form of attack which not one of us on the forum could withstand or decently defend ourselves from, once started. I think most people enjoy technical and opinion arguments... it's part of what forums are for. It's the personal parts and veiled hints that people don't like. Just as you said, complete details _are_ needed. If you and Frank care to make up a list of all these previous times you've been bashed, and send it to me email, I'd be happy to read them. thx and pax - kev #: 7551 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 07:40:25 Sb: #7511-Fest Fm: Mark B. Sheffield 76247,1332 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed - Regarding the financing of our respective companies, it does cost a lot to produce and promote a new product. We both know that good business practice dictates financing such ventures with investment (whether by ourselves or other investors) and NOT from customer money other than profits from sales. IMS has NOT used customer deposits to fund our venture, as you suggested. Now let's get on with producing and promoting our nmachines, shall we? -mark #: 7578 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 23:20:55 Sb: #7511-Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, It was good to clear the air with you on the phone today. In reference to the people I mentioned, I would like to refer them to you! You were very happy to deal with PT customers who have trouble, and I would like to commend you publicly on your quick response to one K4 customer who had a little trouble. You reported to me today that this K4 customer is just fine now. I certainly did not intend to do the kind of damage that I apparently did, both to you and the OS9 Forum. I think things are settling down nicely, and I am glad that you and I have discussed and agreed upon general principles of conduct that -- sadly -- I let slip! I am not malicious at all, but if that was my effect, I certainly restate my apology. I think everyone will agree that, based on who I am and what I generally stand for, and based on who YOU are and what you generally stand for, it is a good thing that we worked out this topic privately and here. Best wishes on the K4, and with Delmar, who has been creating multiuser point of sale systems successfully for several years. Cheers! Paul #: 7575 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 22:57:22 Sb: #7499-Fest Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Bill, Thanks for the reminder. I try to take the "high road", but I did fail for a time. Now I think I can get back to normal! (once-deranged Mad Marketer, regaining dignity) Paul #: 7398 S15/Hot Topics 15-Oct-90 23:06:40 Sb: #7316-Fest Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) I daresay that yours was one of the more popular booths. Waht else can I say so that you might serve us better? Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products #: 7323 S3/Languages 13-Oct-90 05:26:15 Sb: #c_problem Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 To: pete lyall hi pete, here is the new version of the same problem(C 'getime',remember?) #include #include main() struct sgtbuf buffer; int(ti); ti=0; { getime(&buffer); ti=atoi(buffer.t_second); printf(" "%u%u,ti); } it still gives me 0 when i run it! what am i doing wrong?(besides trying to swim with cement shoes!:-) There is 1 Reply. #: 7414 S3/Languages 16-Oct-90 11:48:54 Sb: #7323-c_problem Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 Andy - Would have seen your message sooner had you included my PPN on it. Also, if trying to send a listing (or other formatted text) that you don't want CIS's editor to 'fix' for you, make sure that instead of just [s]aving it, you [s]ave [u]nformatted. A number of problems: 1. You are declaring variables after main() but before the 1st curly brace. The only thing that should be in here is those parameters that are going to be passed to main (like argv, argc, if used). You should either have declared them ABOVE main (making them global to all functions, or after the curly brace '{', making them locally known to the 'main()' procedure only. 2. You are performing an atoi() function on something that's not ASCII to begin with (atoi converts ASCII to its INTEGER equivalent). 3. Your printf() statement had no terminating quote, and contained an unusual formatting list (i.e. "u%u ... or something close). Try something along these lines: #include #include main(argc,argv) /* args optional here */ { int ti; /* a place to stuff 'minutes' */ struct sgtbug timejunk;/* a place to hold the time */ getime(&timejunk); /* tell the system to go get it */ ti = timejunk.t_minutes; /* go get a copy of the minutes */ printf("The number of minutes is: %d\n", ti); } NOTE: I'm just scratch typing at work, and haven't compiled this under os9. Also, you could omit the 'ti' stuff and just: printf("The number of minutes is: %d\n", timejunk.t_minutes); Pete #: 7329 S4/MIDI and Music 13-Oct-90 09:45:14 Sb: #UME 4.7 Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336 To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111 Mike, I'm having trouble getting UMusE 4.7 to work. I have put chars.img and allUm3.img in the SYS directory and have put all the CMDS files (except the MIDI.dddr) in /h0/CMDS. When I start UME, I get the opening screen and the main menu screen. I can build a score. When I try to read or save a score or view a non-UME directory, I get a "Diread: Can't malloc enuf!" message. I normally use Multi-Vue, but I also tried it with Multi-Vue disabled. With the Multi-Vue approach and UME working (sort of), I used Random/os9 command to check os9 status. There were 16 blocks free, but I got the Can't malloc enuf! message when I tried to view a directory or read a file. What is different with my setup? What is malloc? A module allocation command? What should I do to get 4.7 working? Ches. There is 1 Reply. #: 7339 S4/MIDI and Music 13-Oct-90 14:27:51 Sb: #7329-#UME 4.7 Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X) malloc() is the C library function that allocates memory. I bet what's running out is the routine that reads and sorts the names of the files in the current directory for display. I haven't tried running Ultimuse under MV, but I have used it (4.7, the one sold in Atlanta) with no trouble. I don't know why you're having trouble. Do you have any of the UME modules merged? I don't think they should be in this version. There is 1 Reply. #: 7342 S4/MIDI and Music 13-Oct-90 15:11:06 Sb: #7339-UME 4.7 Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Thanks for the reply - I pretty well convinced myself the problem is not related to MV since I got the same problem working out of the UME disk directly. I suspect the problem may be caused by a fully packed shell module because I have jammed a bunch of things there. Still seems strange though - no problem with any other software (including UME 4.5). No, I haven't merged any of the UME modules, although the thought did occur. The availability of almost 200k of memory after UME is operating and encountering a lack of memory is puzzling. Note it didn't give an error 207. I'm inclined to believe it is a program bug, but it must be an obscure one. Any other ideas? Ches. #: 7330 S3/Languages 13-Oct-90 09:47:12 Sb: RE: c_problem Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: 76636,2300 Andy, Try it this way. Look at the differences and if there is anything you don't understand, then ask more questions. Oh, to store a forum message unformatted enter a SU at the Post Action Menu Prompt. #include #include main() { struct sgtbuf buffer; getime(&buffer); printf("Seconds = %d",(int) buffer.t_second); } #: 7331 S4/MIDI and Music 13-Oct-90 09:48:05 Sb: #Lyra Query Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336 To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X) Les, I picked up a CoCo Midi Interface at the Atlanta CoCoFest and it appears to work fine. At that Fest, I learned you have a version of Lyra for hard disk and RBG. My latest version is 2.60 and I gather the latest for floppy is 2.7? and for hard disk is 2.8?. What features are in these versions that are not in 2.60? Please give me upgrade information. Back to the Midi Interface, am I correct that Lyra recognizes when the interface is plugged in and sends the music through that instead of the bit banger? It would be nice to compare the sound first with one interface and then with the other, but either my synthesizer doesn't like quick disconnect/reconnect or Lyra is keeping only one output live. Thanks and best regards. Ches. There is 1 Reply. #: 7345 S4/MIDI and Music 13-Oct-90 15:24:05 Sb: #7331-#Lyra Query Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430 To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X) Ches, I thought you had migrated to Ultimuse! Version 2.72 of Lyra will do proper autodecting of what interface is available (2.61 was supposed to but I didn't get it quite right). If you want to force on interface or the other, then use the last command on the MIDI menu to toggle what you want. This version also has a "Page play" command which will play a page of music, stop, update the display, and continue. There is a very brief pause between pages but the command is rather useful in finding mistakes and following your music as it plays. Version 2.82 has RGB Dos capability as well as a few changes (like being able to back up in dialog boxes). There is 1 Reply. #: 7350 S4/MIDI and Music 13-Oct-90 22:13:41 Sb: #7345-#Lyra Query Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336 To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X) Hey, Les, I didn't migrate, I expanded! I like UME but I like LYRA too. Many of my favorite piano rags are in my LYRA library. And UME doesn't yet have event transmission capability so I can set up the synth for the various configurations I want that differ for each piece. I would like to upgrade to 2.82. I'm using the OWLware BASIC to load LYRA from the hard disk and would like to load the pieces from the hard disk too. Now, tell me here or eMail about the upgrade. Thanks - Ches. There is 1 Reply. #: 7371 S4/MIDI and Music 14-Oct-90 23:49:04 Sb: #7350-Lyra Query Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430 To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X) Ches, you can get the upgrade from me for $10 (2.82, that is). A little more than usual so I can pay the guy who did the HD coding. #: 7333 S7/Telecommunications 13-Oct-90 09:56:47 Sb: Thanks Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Hi Kevin, You are right Telstar is putting a LF in there. Because that is the way I set it up. I didn't know enough to turn it off when sending a hard . I learned alot of new things today. Just so much to learn. Could not do this without your help. Thank you very much, Butch #: 7336 S7/Telecommunications 13-Oct-90 13:18:26 Sb: Conference Uploads ?? Fm: Rodney Harper 75130,1321 To: All I am seeking help in learning how to upload a lecture into Conference using one of several OS9 Terminals that I use. I have been trying just an ASCii dump of a file to the conference area, (after formatting each line to 40 charaters), but CIS responded ..> You are typing too fast... Wait 6 seconds before trying again <... or something along those lines. The Terminals that I use are: STERM 1.2 STERM 1.3 OSTERM 2.08 TELSTAR Has anyone had this problem before ? Can anyone make a suggestion on how I may be able to do this ? Thanks..... Rodney Harper Conference Coordinator FISHNET (Aquarium Fish Forums) GO FISHNET #: 7351 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 13-Oct-90 23:56:42 Sb: #Atari Tape backup Fm: David George 72240,134 To: ALL To all you Atari OSK users. Has anyone hooked up a tape drive yet? I am looking for a tape drive (It now takes about 40 disks to backup my HD), but I don;'t know what tape drives SBF supports. I am running Professional OSK Ver2.2 on a Mega 2. Can I just hook up any SCSI tape drive? Also has anyone written a driver for the Mega Clock or the ICD host adapter clock? The ICD uses SCSI ID#6 for the clock. David George 72240,134 There are 2 Replies. #: 7425 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-90 17:57:11 Sb: #7351-Atari Tape backup Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: David George 72240,134 (X) YOu may wish to ask Carl Kreider or Dave Kaleita. Paul #: 7513 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Oct-90 09:02:28 Sb: #7351-Atari Tape backup Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76 To: David George 72240,134 SBF doesn't care what the tape drive is. You do need a driver, but I don't know anyone that has one. I have a tape running on the 030 but haven't gotten to the ST yet. There are Minix drivers for both tape and the clocks around that might provide an example. I used an Archive 5945C drive and Adaptec 3530 QIC to SCSI adapter. Several people use these on their ST's. The drive is available with SCSI interface (and is 60 meg). The 2150S is a 150 meg SCSI drive. These all would hook up to your ICD adapter. Carl #: 7353 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-90 06:13:54 Sb: #Will OS9 Run on a Mac Fm: C. Paul Bond 72760,2473 To: Paul Will OS9 run on a Macintosh? Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7354 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 14-Oct-90 06:58:38 Sb: #7353-Will OS9 Run on a Mac Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: C. Paul Bond 72760,2473 Yes. Call Ultrascience in Wilmette, Illinois. (I don't have their phone number at hand, or I'd include it.) #: 7356 S4/MIDI and Music 14-Oct-90 07:59:10 Sb: UME Query 2 Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336 To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111 Mike, after further experimentation, I suspect UME 4.7 may be trying to use memory that is already in use in my system. When I start os9 lv2 from the original disk and stay in floppy-land, the high end is at $7DFF and UME 4.7 loads up and works fine. When I start os9 lv2 with my OWL hard disk, the high end of memory is at $7BFF and UME 4.7 loads up and starts but gives me the can't malloc enuf stuff. Did you make the os9 sin and directly address to memory?? Ches. #: 7359 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 14-Oct-90 11:14:00 Sb: #Reduced system memory Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 To: All I have a CoCo3 with 128K of memory. Due to memory restrictions when running the C compiler, I have been trying to create a os9boot file that eliminates the overhead of the grfdrv file, (Yes I want 80 characters/line!). I have tried to set up a boot file that uses just /t2 as the primary /term and also I have tried to use ccio and co80 from level 1 version 2 to create a system with less memory requirements. None of these approaches seem to work. Does anyone have any ideas on why this fails for me? I have tried the following: 1. Reassembled Init with /t2 as the primary terminal. Didn't work. 2. Reassembled t2 device descripter renamed as term. Didn't work. The two above methods aborted with a Boot Failed 3. Replaced cc3io with ccio (level 1, version 2), eliminated grfint, and added co80, (Mike D...'s patch for 80 chars/line on level 1 version 2). Can anyone HELP?? There is 1 Reply. #: 7382 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 13:06:13 Sb: #7359-#Reduced system memory Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X) Bill - if you don't need video at all, you could do the init=/t2 and/or Term=/t2 as you did, leave out cc3io,vdgint/etc, but be sure to have aciapak... which is /t2's driver of course. Is the new Init/T2 modules' CRC correct and verified? The coco should boot up to use the terminal (make sure baud rate correct also). Does /t2 work fine with your terminal now? Do you also have Shell on the boot disk CMDS dir? There are 2 Replies. #: 7395 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 22:14:04 Sb: #7382-Reduced system memory Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, thanks for your response. BTW, I have really enjoyed the utilities you have uploaded to both Delphi and Compuserve. I used to use mverify very extensively, (primarily with level 1), and dmode has really made life easy on me when I have changed out disk drives. I have also made the level 2 patches you have provided. Not to mention scfedit, proc, dirm, etc., etc., etc... Thank You!! (and thanks for the utilities you have provided with source code. This is how people learn about their operating system and hardware. To be honest with you, my interest in the CoCo and OS9 has just begun again after a long period of disuse). Since you believe what I tried should work, I think I better go back and try it again. Initially, I thought I was very careful. In answer to your responses this is what I remember. I did an ident on the new os9boot file that I created using os9gen. All CRC checked out ok. This is not really surprising since the modified init module, (when I changed the default terminal to t2), and the device descripter, (when I changed the name to term), were modified and assembled from the disassembly of the original code. I make sure that all the source code from my disassemblies are correct by running the assembler and checking its cmd file outputs with the original module. The os9boot file was made using os9gen with its bootlist file modified to add/delete the modified or unwanted modules or device descripter. I did not try this modification by patching the modules or device descripter in memory. Since I was trying to delete the grfint, cc3io, and grfdrv, (which I presume grfint loads), it wouldn't make much sense, (to me anyway!). Message continues in the next message...... #: 7396 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 22:15:38 Sb: #7382-#Reduced system memory Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Yes, I did have a good copy of shell in the CMDS directory on the boot disk and it did have the proper attributes set correctly. Since the startup file has the line "link shell" as its first command, I also made sure that link was in the CMDS directory with the proper execution attributes set. I remember when I first got os9 level 2, (Yes, I too was anxiously awaiting its arrival, but I guess that might have been obvious from the mention of Mike D..'s fine co80 driver for level 1), and went through the OS9 Boot Failed errors caused by not having grfdrv in the CMDS directory while using grfint. It nearly drove me crazy that first night!!! As far as t2 is concerned: Yes, it does work fine, and yes, the baud rate is set up properly. No problem using a terminal or terminal emulation on my IBM clone for communcation, (with null modem cable). And modem operation is no problem either. The serial port is a home brew card hanging from a Disto Super Controller II, (I hate those Multi-paks!), running your cc3disk.irq driver. ACIAPAK was in the boot file and modified using your patch from the the SCII driver and documentation disk. The CoCo3 was modified with the IRQ diode hack described by Marty Goodman in the Nov '89 issue of Rainbow, however, I DID NOT, make the tie ins as described in the Rainbow text. A little PC tracing can make the wire run much shorter and it is easier and cleaner to solder to a PC trace making the transition to the other side of the board, (the hole and solder pad is already provided for you ). This problem will not make any significant difference in the long run since I really need to upgrade my memory! But, you know how it is, I want to know why it didn't work. Any comments on the ccio/co80 combination? I also need to buy your book, "Inside OS9 Level 2". Do you have any preferred distributer? I will let you know what I come up with. To be honest, I have quite a few questions concerning OS9 level 2 but I don't think it is fair of me to ask them without first reading your book on the subject. There is 1 Reply. #: 7406 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 16-Oct-90 00:20:35 Sb: #7396-#Reduced system memory Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X) Bill - First, thanks for the thanks! And absolutely all questions are welcomed... there's a lot not in my book's weird reference tables . So ask away! Second, thanks for the detailed background on what you've done/tried. I in return must ask the required question: Did you use "fcs" on the name change in your Init/T2 source code, to set the high bit on the end of the descriptor name? Practical suggestion: make a custom CC3GO which changes the border color of the coco screen when it is executed, so that you can see if OS9 even gets to cc3go. If it doesn't, then see previous paragraph. I don't think CO80 etc will work at all under L-II... all of us who wrote things like that simply went out and grabbed some extra memory (which would have to be coordinated under L-II natch)... under L-I this was possible with impunity on a 128K coco, but not L-II. CCIO itself relied on L-I system variables, which again won't work under L-II. Yah, you really need the 512K... what a diff it makes! In any even tho, booting to a different /term should be quite possible. Something simple (isn't it always??) is screwing you up. We'll laugh when you find it . Keep us posted. best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7453 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 16-Oct-90 23:06:28 Sb: #7406-#Reduced system memory Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kev - Ok, I tried to boot up with t2 as the primary terminal again without any success. Yes, the primary terminal in Init is defined with the fcs as: term fcs "/t2" I guess I should have written this down before I asked the question instead of relying on my memory. I do not get a OS9 BOOT FAILED message, the initial OS9 BOOT comes up on the Coco3 screen but the disk drive just keeps running and never boots up and never stops! Could it have anything to do with defining the immortal shell as "i=/1" in the CC3Go module? Init's redefinition of the default/primary terminal should still work with this statement. Shouldn't it? If this doesn't give you any Ah-ha, then I will try to figure out how to add several statments in CC3Go to change border color on my composite monochrome monitor. I suppose some absolute direct writes to the GIME should do this since it's memory space is never mapped out and always reside above $FF00, Right? I also presume you have tried doing this with your coco. Since I think you said that IOMan doesn't use Init to determine the number of entries in the device table, (you wrote this in your os9 lvl2 patch file as I recall), Microware/Tandy didn't pull any fast ones by ignoring the default terminal in Init. Did they? Also, could it be the dreaded bootlist problem?? There is 1 Reply. #: 7459 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 03:47:00 Sb: #7453-#Reduced system memory Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X) Bill - yah, I use color cues etc to debug things on boot. Oh, you can also write to $0000-001F, which isn't cleared on boots. Write some info there, then boot with a good disk and check out what went there (in the system map of course). I think it's something REALLY simple that's killing you. Like, does the Shell in CMDS have execution permissions? Is it a good shell? Are the disk drive descriptors set up correctly? Etc. It's important to not take anything like that for granted. I've done it quite often myself , and spent days overlooking the most obvious ommissions from my bootfile, etc. Also peer at your normal startup file (maybe you do something there?) Is there anything special about your serial port which must be set up before use, that might only happen on a normal bootdisk? I suppose it could be the dreaded BLOB, but I haven't seen too many of those lately. Still, shuffle around your bootlist and check. Hmm. I would do this (if you haven't already): create a normal video bootdisk, and boot. Try /t2. Work okay? Now take the same disk and use dEd to modify the os9boot Init module to say /t2 instead of /term. Write the change, reverify and reboot. If it doesn't work I don't know what to say! Luck - kev There are 3 Replies. #: 7476 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 20:44:10 Sb: #7459-Reduced system memory Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Ok, Kev. I took part of your suggestion in the last message and got an interesting result. I know where you are coming from when you say it must be something simple, (compared to your knowledge of OS9 you would rightfully consider me a neophyte). Be that as it may, I generated a new system boot using os9gen but replaced the init module with the init=/t2 module in the bootfile. I know the system did get to cc3go since it did run part of my startup file. My startup file has the following: link shell echo A string setime ? Well, the mystery of the copyright notice is solved. I have a copy of CC3Go which I eliminated the copyright notice from. You guessed it, that is what I had in my bootlist file for os9gen, (BTW If you have ever eaten crow, it doesn't taste so good). Well I edited the bootlist file which successfully ran the init=/t2 file. I eliminated the cc3io, grfint, and all of the window descripters (w..w7) from the bootlist file and did another os9gen. Guess what? It didn't work! Same results that I had previously. The OS9 BOOT message came on my coco3 screen and the disk drive just continued to run. I'm going back and adding the "w" device descripter and try this thing again. I haven't gone crazy yet, but it looks like the system doesn't like the above modules to be deleted. Think I will take them selectively out, one at a time, and see where I run into trouble.... There is 1 Reply. #: 7509 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 02:45:30 Sb: #7485-#Reduced system memory Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X) Bill - Well, sounds like you're getting closer, all right. Still using that custom cc3go, or did you dig out an old one? When you managed to get it to boot to init=/t2 (with the window modules in the boot), what did a procs and ddir (if you have that) show for active processes and devices? Bound to be a clue there, methinks. Sorry that I haven't had the chance to try this out here yet... will as soon as possible (except I think you'll figure something out very soon - fingers crossed ;-). Thx for updates. best - kev There are 2 Replies. #: 7534 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 18:49:14 Sb: #7509-#Reduced system memory Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kev - I worked on it until late last night. I have been able to get it to boot with init=/t2 with all of the window descripters missing, the term descripter missing and grfint module missing. Whenever I removed cc3io, it failed to boot up on /t2? Why, I am not yet sure. Maybe it is the BLOB. You must remember that I bought my machine when they first came out and have not upgraded the GIME or memory. I did dumps on all the system modules that I could think of searching for the ASCII text of cc3io to see if some module was calling for this module. The coco3 text screen does get some garbage on it when cc3io is not present. I will not give up. I am going to figure out why! Does the iniz t2 command make any sense to you? That is one of the questions I was going to ask. I am also running shell ver 1.2. I have not scanned that to see if it is in someone looking for cc3io. I was able to gain another 2 8k blocks by eliminating what I have done so far. I will keep you posted and I am going to learn about the operating system one way or another..... Thanks for the help. Oh, forgot to tell you about iniz t2. Before I started this crusade to boot up on /t2 and eliminate all unecessary system modules I could put the iniz t2 into the startup file and only have 40k left, (as reported by mfree). If I then did a deiniz t2 followed by an iniz t2, I could get the memory back up to 48k. I have procs and ddir. Procs should what you would expect, (ie t2 is the primary paths for the immortal shell). ddir, ( in dutil3), doesn't show any extraneous devices. Just CC3disk with its device descriptors and t2 with its aciapak driver. The ddir upgraded by (?) does have extraneous info at the end.. Will snatch copies and let you see. There is 1 Reply. #: 7555 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 12:14:24 Sb: #7534-#Reduced system memory Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X) Reaching WAAAAAYY back, Kent Meyers did what you're doing to his Dragon (CC2 clone) computer. I think what he found was that there were interrupt hooks pointing into (then) CCio to allow for interrupt based scan for keyboard input (i.e. key down checking). This was required because the keyboard had no interrupt ability on its own. Perhaps things are the same here, and if you could find a way to stub off the interrupt nesting, you'd be home free.. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7566 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 18:46:52 Sb: #7555-#Reduced system memory Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Thanks Pete. Guess I will have to disassemble all of the code if I can't stumble on to the answer. There are 2 Replies. #: 7596 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 09:51:38 Sb: #7566-Reduced system memory Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X) That'd probably help, or maybe just start by using some of the available tools in DL9/DL10 to peek at the interrupt vectors, and see where they're all headed. I hate to through any more weight on Kevin, but I know that he's _intimate_ with the code, as is Kent Meyers. Perhaps on or t'other can flesh out this issue. Steve Wegert was funneling OS9 Forum info to Kent, so perhaps a note to Steve will get Kent's attention. Pete #: 7617 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 22:54:16 Sb: #7566-Reduced system memory Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 Bill - Pete/Kent/others had a good notion about the cc3io driver being in line for interrupts, but as far as I can recall offhand, it only inserts a replacement vector for one which normally points back to a "rts" in the Clock module (which handles all interrupts on the coco). Also, without it being iniz'd, it wouldn't do that anyway (cc3io, that is). Therefore I kinda tend towards your BLOB theory for the moment. I'm sure Kent will come up with something tho >! #: 7538 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 20:06:01 Sb: #7509-Reduced system memory Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Just read my last message. I hope you can understand it. I must be tired since some of the words were not what I wanted to type. I forgot to respond to your question on CC3Go. Yes, I dug out the original version and it did write the copyright message to the /t2 terminal like it is supposed to do. I will concentrate on trying to determine what the problem is. If you find out that cc3io is needed for some esoteric reason, please pass it along to the forum. Seems like I have been jumping to conclusions about the cause for this or that. The conclusions I have reached so far are: 1) it seems like I need the statement iniz t2 in the startup file 2) it seems like I need to keep cc3io in the os9boot file. 3) I'm not sure my conclusion are right, but they are what I have observed. I will be making the assumption that I have a blob problem and start to rearrange the order of the modules in the bootlist file in the hopes of deleting the cc3io module. I will also be experimenting with adding back the term descripter, except it will have aciapak as its driver. Then I will sit back and THINK about the results I have obtained. If you get the time, I would be interested in hearing about the results you obtained with your hardware, however, I know that you are busy and I am not expecting you to do this for me. Sometimes it is frustrating to track down problems when you don't know how the system is supposed to work ...... Thanks for your time. Regards, Bill #: 7362 S15/Hot Topics 14-Oct-90 16:33:41 Sb: #SYSTEM IV System Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: ALL I want to thank everyone who attended the Atlanta CoCoFest for the response we received to the new SYSTEM IV Computer System. We have no doubts as to the success of our efforts. For those unable to attend the fest, I've posted our full announcement in Library 15. Remember, the SYSTEM IV is available for immediate delivery. Ed Gresick Delmar Co 302-378-2555 There is 1 Reply. #: 7426 S15/Hot Topics 16-Oct-90 17:59:33 Sb: #7362-#SYSTEM IV System Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, Does PT generally put their stuff through FCC approval? Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7464 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 15:52:54 Sb: #7426-#SYSTEM IV System Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Paul, As far as I know, I've asked for a list of the approved machines. BTW, as I understand it, your design has been revised since you submitted your machine for FCC approval. How is re-submitting the new design for approval going to affect your deliveries? Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 7483 S15/Hot Topics 17-Oct-90 21:48:23 Sb: #7464-SYSTEM IV System Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, The design at the FCC is the latest. No changes! Thanks for asking, though. Paul #: 7363 S7/Telecommunications 14-Oct-90 18:19:26 Sb: #VT-TERM/ANSI GRAPHICS Fm: John Ranck 73540,246 To: ALL Does anyone know of a terminal program preferably that can run under Wizor Wiz-Pro but must run under OS9 L-II that can inteert ANSI graphics codes to the format understood by CC3IO window driver. Thank You Mike Ranck. There is 1 Reply. #: 7385 S7/Telecommunications 15-Oct-90 13:10:21 Sb: #7363-VT-TERM/ANSI GRAPHICS Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: John Ranck 73540,246 Mike - there's a coupla ANSI gfx filter programs in Lib 10... I haven't used them but others have. Guys?? Look for ANSI* and see what you find. ANSIFI.??? maybe? #: 7364 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 14-Oct-90 19:10:13 Sb: #CoCo on sale Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: All Looks like some messages I've seen here and there are true. Today I wandered by a local Radio Shack, and the CoCo was on sale for $99.95, and CM-8s for under $200. There are 2 Replies. #: 7367 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 14-Oct-90 21:38:29 Sb: #7364-CoCo on sale Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Yep, and drive 0 is on the disco'd list since last August altho drive 1 is still on the active list. -ph- #: 7373 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 00:23:29 Sb: #7364-#CoCo on sale Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Hmmm... Would this be a good inexpensive way to try out OS-9? How much hardware/software would I need to add to the $99 machine before I'd have a usable OS-9 system with a hard disk? There is 1 Reply. #: 7377 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 06:45:13 Sb: #7373-#CoCo on sale Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Let's see...I'd seriously recommend 512K; those are going for not much $$$ these days. I think that the Disto hardware is probably the least expensive way to get the I/O--someone who knows more about Disto hardware than I do will have to fill in the gaps in my information, I fear. (BTW, are you David Betz as in Xlisp/Xscheme?) There is 1 Reply. #: 7378 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 08:20:09 Sb: #7377-#CoCo on sale Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Thanks for your comments. Would it be reasonable to go the CoCo route or would I be better off (and cheaper off) trying one of the new systems like the MM/1 or the TOMCAT? (And, yes, I am the author of XLISP/XScheme/AdvSys/...) There are 3 Replies. #: 7386 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 13:15:01 Sb: #7378-#CoCo on sale Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) David - there's also a number of CoCo systems for sale these days... often at very good prices including everything you need to get going. There might be some over in COCO forum... also, I think CoCoPRO! buys and sells used Coco systems. (guys? what's their phone/BBS number??) Wait. I think their BBS # is 313-663-6207. Some ads there. I'll also keep an eye out. I've seen some great deals lately but ignored them. There are 2 Replies. #: 7387 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 13:23:11 Sb: #7386-CoCo on sale Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Thanks. I'll try the BBS and the COCO forum. #: 7401 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 23:12:39 Sb: #7386-CoCo on sale Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Our phone is 313-481-DAVE (3283). Thanks for the referral, Kev! Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products #: 7389 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 19:39:32 Sb: #7378-#CoCo on sale Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Well...I'd give serious thought to an MM/1. (In this case, particularly because starting at maybe 1.4, XLisp really doesn't fit too well in a single 64K address space. :-) There is 1 Reply. #: 7392 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 21:16:31 Sb: #7389-#CoCo on sale Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Actually, I'd be more likely to try to port XScheme. It might be possible to make it fit by removing a bunch of its internal functions. On the other hand, the 68K address space would be much nicer. I've always sort of liked the 6809 though (ever since I bought a 6809 board for my old SWTP-6800). Unfortunately, I've never had a chance to do much programming on it. You might be interested to know that the first LISP interpreter that I wrote was written in 6800 assembly language for the SWTP-6800. There is 1 Reply. #: 7394 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 22:11:43 Sb: #7392-#CoCo on sale Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) No kidding? That's neat. I agree, the 6809's design is quite nice. (Too bad folks at BYTE never seemed to notice that...but that's another story.) I ported XLisp 1.2 to OS-9/6809 (only problem was that Microware's 6809 C compiler differed from others with respect to the relative binding of type modifications on typedefs, and 1.2 has a pointer to jmp_buf); firing up XLisp on the 68020 I have Kermit talking to in another window shows that it claims to be version 1.6, and I think someone may have ported some version of XScheme to OS-9/68000. SIOD (Scheme In One DEFUN) came right up on the 68000, and compiled right up on the 6809, but barfs immediately when I tried to run it on my CoCo for reasons I have yet to discover. There is 1 Reply. #: 7412 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 16-Oct-90 08:07:38 Sb: #7394-#CoCo on sale Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) I think that SIOD trys to allocate lots of memory when it starts up. You might try giving it a command line switch to tell it to use a smaller heap. Sorry, but I'm not sure what the syntax for the switch is, but I think there is such a thing. There is 1 Reply. #: 7432 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 16-Oct-90 18:28:11 Sb: #7412-CoCo on sale Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) No problem--the hint is enough of a place to start. Thanks! #: 7427 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 16-Oct-90 18:01:38 Sb: #7378-#CoCo on sale Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Well, if you want to go the CoCo route, you can get a 512k upgrade from us at IMS for darn cheap. If you go MM/1, then we can offer financing and a screaming, FCC certified machine (in about two weeks). Either way, you should have some fun! Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7454 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 16-Oct-90 23:19:45 Sb: #7427-CoCo on sale Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Well, of course I'd rather go the MM/1 route (or maybe the TOMCAT). I'll decide once I get your literature in the mail. I didn't know you offered financing. That's a nice option, although your prices seem pretty affordable anyway. #: 7365 S7/Telecommunications 14-Oct-90 21:05:22 Sb: #UUCP frustrations Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: all FLAME ON. After spending over an hour transfering UUCP.AR from dl 7, I was extremly frustrated to find that it was 6809 executable: 100% worthless to me. FLAME ON HIGH: If you absolutly MUST distribute binary executeables for one of the os9 arcitectures, please mark it as such in ALL annoncements of it. Source code is much more likely to be usable, fixable, and much less likely to contain viruses. (Yes, writing an os9 virus would be quite simple. If I though it would get people to distribute source rather than executable, I probably would write one.) The self-conflicting copyright notice (apperently based on the gnu public licence, with modifacations trying to make it so the author can make money on the code) makes it so I can't even give what I've downloaded away without having source code, which is not included and apperently only given to those who ask special for it. Even if I do get ahold of the sources for the 6809 and modify them to work on my 68k machine, I can't give, sell, or otherwise distribute the changes without more special permission. I'm getting pretty desperate for a uucp I can use on my qt20x and include with my distribution of C-news and rn. If I can't get the needed special dispensation, it looks like I'll have to port one of the freely available uucps myself. The main reason I haven't started doing so already is hearing about this one and not wanting to duplicate effort. If I sound frustrated, I am. I did get a good nights sleep before composing this message in order to calm myself down a bit. (compuserve sets a new record low for kermit througput: 561 cps on a 2400 baud modem. I thought my link to a machine over an overloaded eathernet that likes to take breaks of several minutes of no data transfered was horid, I regularly get 1500-2000 cps on it. I get in excess of 3000 cps on a mnp5 connection to a fast machine.) There are 7 Replies. #: 7368 S7/Telecommunications 14-Oct-90 21:59:56 Sb: #7365-UUCP frustrations Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) The author of what ytyou downloaded is working on an OSK version of UUCP. Does your qt20x run OSK? #: 7370 S7/Telecommunications 14-Oct-90 23:48:17 Sb: #7365-UUCP frustrations Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) Ummm... Robert The header for UUCP.AR states in no fewer than 3 places that it's for OS-9/6809. I don't see what the problem is??? ...Jim #: 7374 S7/Telecommunications 15-Oct-90 04:12:53 Sb: #7365-#UUCP frustrations Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) Lester! UUCP for OS9/68000 is available in Library 12 - TOP4 and TOP5. This port was done by the guys in Munich. No source, though. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 7375 S7/Telecommunications 15-Oct-90 04:13:53 Sb: #7374-UUCP frustrations Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Robert! Sorry about the salutation - wrong name. My apologies. Ed #: 7384 S7/Telecommunications 15-Oct-90 13:08:40 Sb: #7365-#UUCP frustrations Fm: William Phelps 75100,265 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) Even if there were OS-9 viruses circulating, how would a virus get into UUCP.AR? The only people who can alter the file are Mark and the Sysops. Don't you trust THEM? Do you think that authors should be able to profit from their hard work? If you really need QT specific software call FHL. How did you measure the speed of file transfers from CompuServe? The figures you give as "slow" exceed the maximum possible. William There is 1 Reply. #: 7429 S7/Telecommunications 16-Oct-90 18:05:22 Sb: #7384-#UUCP frustrations Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: William Phelps 75100,265 (X) Hi William! Sorry you could not make it to the Fest. The IMS team was looking forward to meeting one of our most revered customers! Mark sends along his howdies. Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7533 S7/Telecommunications 18-Oct-90 18:43:53 Sb: #7429-#UUCP frustrations Fm: William Phelps 75100,265 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) Well if the next Fest is not on the third or fourth weekend of the month, I might be able to make it. What is your estimated shipping date now? William There is 1 Reply. #: 7583 S7/Telecommunications 19-Oct-90 23:38:49 Sb: #7533-UUCP frustrations Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: William Phelps 75100,265 (X) William, You know, I was so busy this week, that I did not check with the lab in Texas! Concerning the FCC testing, that is -weeks, but not much longer, my friend. Boy, it's gonna feel good to see those circuit boards rolling off the line. The manufacturer has his production design boards in hand and is programming his pick-and-place machines. Take care. Paul #: 7428 S7/Telecommunications 16-Oct-90 18:03:41 Sb: #7365-UUCP frustrations Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) UUCP for the MM/1 is working now under OSK. Paul #: 7431 S7/Telecommunications 16-Oct-90 18:22:02 Sb: #7365-UUCP frustrations Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) Robert: I STRONGLY suggest that you download STERM from the OSK database here. It uses the Compuserve B protocol for downloading. I believe that the B protocol is a streaming type protocol that does not require an ACK after every block transmitted, this greatly increases throughput. When I download files from CIS this way, the RD light on my modem stays on solid until the file is completely downloaded. -J #: 7598 S7/Telecommunications 20-Oct-90 10:01:15 Sb: #7365-UUCP frustrations Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) Robert, I'm sorry you found the UUCP port not to your liking. I believe I did mention a couple times that this was the OS9/6809 port. As for the lack of source code....I thought about this a lot and decided that the need to keep some control over the source and the port outweighed the desire to upload them. I think this is resonable given the year I spent doing the port and the time and money spent testing, talking to beta testers, etc. As I mentioned in the docs, anyone wanting the source code just needs to drop me a line and include $5 for the cost of the disk and postage. If that still doesn't seem resonable to you, then I can send it to you with no charge if you will send me a letter with your address. I also question your mentioning viruses. Since I nor anyone I know has seen or heard of an OS9 virus, I think it kinda unresonable for you to suggest that I might put one in the upload. If I were that smart, I'd have figured out a way to do it in less than a 250K file (grin). In any case, I do not expect this port to pass the detailed scrutiney (sp?) of a UseNet guru or any other experienced net hacker. It is as simple an implementation as I thought possible while still giving as much functionality as possible. It does work and hopefully will bring OS9 users that much closer to the real world. If you have any more questions, please feel free to call me since I am no longer available on CIS (at least for the next few months). Mark #: 7366 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 14-Oct-90 21:09:30 Sb: Hard Drive Wanted Fm: Rodney Harper 75130,1321 To: All Wanted: (In a really big way ) Hard Drive and controller for COCO 3. 10-20 meg, name your price. >>Rod<< Leave me mail, call, or write..... Rodney Harper 202 N. Seaman Avenue Bayou La Batre, Alabama 36509 (205) 824-2495 after 5pm CST #: 7388 S1/General Interest 15-Oct-90 19:31:00 Sb: One Meg Problems Fm: DENNIS SKALA 73177,2365 To: 73467,403 (X) Paul, Sorry about the problems you're having with the one Meg. But I can help with one part - the ramdisk is my stuff. Originally sold by (holding nose here, hand on wallet) Spectrum Projects, currently by Microcom. As it happens I just finished an upgrad to handle the one Meg. Check your mailbox later on in the week. ***** Dennis ***** #: 7393 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 15-Oct-90 22:10:16 Sb: #TERMINAL PROGRAM HELP Fm: BRUCE BAKER 73747,3137 To: SYSOP (X) I am an extremely new OS-9 user. I have no terminal program that I can get to work under OS-9. My access to compuserve is under RS-Dos with Mikeyterm as a terminal program. I don't have a true RS232 port. My modem and Mikeyterm work through the bitbanger serial I/O. I found a program in the COCO forum that lets me read RS-DOS files under OS-9. I have downloaded several files from both the COCO forum and this forum, but althoug I can read the files, I can't get the modules to load and run under OS-9. I suspect that Mikeyterm inserts line feeds at the end of each line. Could that be part of my problem? My other question is, is there a device driver/descriptor (T1?) that will work with level 1 if I can get a terminal program up and running? Also, what would be the best terminal program in this database to use with level 1? Any and all help will be greatly appreciated! Bruce There is 1 Reply. #: 7407 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 16-Oct-90 00:20:59 Sb: #7393-TERMINAL PROGRAM HELP Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: BRUCE BAKER 73747,3137 Hi Bruce - new users always welcome! I think you'll find /t1 drivers to be rather unpleasant under OS-9. There may still be a partial solution around... I'll look... which was called a "FIRQ-driven" modification. Requires one wire jumpered on your bitbanger connector. But otherwise a real serial port is almost a must. Regarding the files you downloaded... tell us what they were. If you could actually read them (as in "list" them), then they were likely to be source code and can't be executed without first assembling them into 6809 binary. If they were binary files (unreadable junk), then they may have also been AR'd (archived - if the filename here ended in .ar, then they were). We'll get to that if/when need be. If they were binary files but simply OS9 commands ready to run, then you need to do two things: 1. Copy the file from the RSDOS/"OS9" disk to a real OS9 disk. 2. Set the execution permissions on the file: attr filename e pe w That way, OS9 will allow you to load (and delete) the file. Substitute the pathname of the file for "filename" above, of course. Like: "attr /d1/dmode e pe w", for example. Don't worry, you'll find all this quite natural sooner than you think. Just tell us the filenames for now. best - kev #: 7397 S7/Telecommunications 15-Oct-90 22:43:30 Sb: #UUCP in DL7 Fm: Steve Sampson N5OWK 75136,626 To: 76070,41 I'm curious what you used for the basic port, and if the DL7 upload contains source also? As on old uucp tinkerer who never gets time for it anymore :-) There is 1 Reply. #: 7599 S7/Telecommunications 20-Oct-90 10:01:22 Sb: #7397-#UUCP in DL7 Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Steve Sampson N5OWK 75136,626 (X) Steve, I used your Flex port as a starting point and changed much and added much. I must say, I would never have been able to do it if you had not posted your version of DCP by Richard Lamb. I found his coding style (or lack thereof) to be very hard to follow, while your code was simple, elegant, and much easier to trace through. Thanks. I would be happy to send you the sources if you'll just drop me a note. My address is: Mark Griffith 953 W. Wisconsin Ave. DeLand FL 32720 or Mark Griffith Stetson University Campus Box 8347 DeLand FL 32720 I can do 720K or 360K CoCo disks, MM/1 or Atari ST OSK 3.5 disks. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 7602 S7/Telecommunications 20-Oct-90 11:38:01 Sb: #7599-UUCP in DL7 Fm: Steve Sampson 75136,626 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Well I'm glad someone found an use for it. I never did get my send-expect dialer code right. I had it half-ass on my flex-box, but it only worked long distance (timing) and not local. You probably fixed a ton of bent code to get where you are :-) #: 7402 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-90 23:26:47 Sb: #Help with PT68-K4 OS9 Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: All I've been having a little trouble getting set up with OS9 on the PT68-K4. I'm hoping one of you old hands can help me figure out what's going on. Actually, I got started with OS9 by accident. When I upgraded from the -K2 to a -K4, Peripheral Tech was under the impression that I already had OS9, so they sent me a set of OS9 disks as an upgrade. Being the honest person that I am (and also ready to try OS9), rather than sending the disks back I called and asked that they charge me the price for OS9, and send the manuals. The manuals came with a second, more official-looking set of disks. When I tried to boot, I discovered that the first set of disks (the upgrade set) booted just fine, but the "legal" set has serious problems. It wouldn't boot at all. No problem, says I, I'll use the first set. Everything seemed to go fine at first. The system came up, all the dir, chd, chs, and the obvious stuff worked. Natch, the first step seemed to be to back up the distribution disks. I found that format worked fine, but backup doesn't: I get error 000:232, which indicates a bad CRC. Ironically, I did a cmp of the copy of backup on the first and second sets. The OS9Boot program on the two disks showed beaucoup differences (which I suppose explains why one will boot and the other won't!), but cmp says that the two backups are identical. I called PT, and they sent a replacement set of disks, which arrived today. Got the same problem as the first set. It boots, but backup shows a bad CRC. [More] There is 1 Reply. #: 7403 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 15-Oct-90 23:26:54 Sb: #7402-#Help with PT68-K4 OS9 Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) [Continued] Tonight I called Microware to see what's going on. He showed me how to use "ident" to look at the info on the file. Sure enough, it shows a bad CRC on backup. He also told me that I could back the disks up the hard way, using dsave, so I am not dead in the water, and can go ahead with installation. In the meantime, though, I guess I'd like to know: (a) What's the easiest way to get a copy of backup that works. He suggested having PT send me a copy on a separate disk, but it appears that PT's Master copy is bad. Can I get one from Microware. (b) I saw something in the manual that implied there's a program to recalculate the CRC, I guess for patches. Is this a safe thing to do? (c) Wonder how come the two copies of OS9Boot are different???? Anybody got any thoughts/advice/similar experiences to help me? Thanks. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 7409 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-90 01:09:55 Sb: #7403-Help with PT68-K4 OS9 Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hi Jack (btw, where do you live? might be some help nearby) - The OS9boots are probably different because they added something to one or the other. Do an "ident -q /d0/os9boot" and see what modules are in each disk's os9boot file. Yah, "fixmod -u filename" will update a CRC if you changed the module. However, if you yourself didn't change it on purpose , using fixmod is a bad idea... the CRC being bad indicates that surely something in the module is hosed, and fixmod can't fix that. The CRC is there just to prevent loading such a bad module. Backup - did you get Basic? You could use it or C or asm to write a quick and dirty backup util. The first 3 bytes on any OS9 disk give the number of sectors on that disk. So a simple backup program in Basic would be: PROCEDURE backup DIM count(3),sector(256):BYTE DIM path1,path2,total,x:INTEGER INPUT "from drive name ",source$ INPUT "to drive name ",dest$ OPEN #path1,source$+"@":READ OPEN #path2,dest$+"@":WRITE GET #path1,count total=count(1)*65536.+count(2)*256+count(3) SEEK #path1,0 FOR x=1 TO total GET #path1,sector PUT #path2,sector NEXT x END All that does it to open each disk in raw (full disk) mode (the "@" does that special - like "/d0@")... then go through and copy each sector. Lots of ways to speed this up of course, like doing more bytes at a time. You can also get fancy and get the drive names from the parameter line, etc. Did PT know how much RAM you had, btw? The Init module needs to know that. Does "mfree -e" jibe with your system? best - kev #: 7410 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 16-Oct-90 05:01:11 Sb: #TC09 "virtual machine" Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) Hiya! It was nice to actually see you in person at CoCoFest. I have to ask, though, about the new "virtual machine" stuff that is intended to let the TC09 run non-OS-9 CoCo software. I was happy to hear that OS-9 device drivers wouldn't have to go through that rigamarole, but trying to infer what a CoCo *would have* read from a particular memory-mapped I/O address sounds like it would take some time to puzzle out, and it's kind of a bummer to me to see the TC09 delayed (will it be made more expensive by the added code or hardware needed to do this?) by something I will never use. Any chance you could upload an updated description of the TC09? There is 1 Reply. #: 7452 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 16-Oct-90 22:38:33 Sb: #7410-#TC09 "virtual machine" Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) The virtual machine part of the TC9 in its simplest form actually saves us money because we can now boot stock OS9 and then modify it after. Without this capability we would have had to somehow provided a way for you to get up and running OS9. This would be no problem for those with a CoCo3 that they could use but what about those without. Anyway the virtual machine hardware was swapped in essence for the 25% speedup. The cost to the user is carried by FHL. The other advantage is that the virtual machine can be used to test hardware that doesn't exist yet. ie: you could use the VM to test possible hardware etc. I'm getting lost trying to explane this online so I will refrain from doing so for now. I plan to upload a series of tech notes on this and other developments as soon as both machines (TC9 and TC70) are fully up and running. I think that there has been too much said about hardware that does not exist in production form and that that may confuse the readers. So... when, in a week or so, we have both machines fully up and in production I will upload lots of detailed info and all specs. (PS Just reread your note and I forgot to answer these questions. No it will not delay the TC9. The VM is disabled on reset and would not interfere with any software. (Stock Apps. would use it until/if modified for the TC9 hardware) Hope that holds you for now, please be patient for the rest of the info. BTW it was nice to see you and all the other guys that I have only talked to on the phone before. It was also nice to renew old friendships. I think that is the thing I like most about these shows, we should do them for that if for no other reason. Frank There is 1 Reply. #: 7458 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 03:25:43 Sb: #7452-TC09 "virtual machine" Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X) Thanks for the info. I guess the only thing that I wonder about is your mentioning the swap for the speedup--but I will hold off pending your upload; goodness knows you are pretty busy these days. Big 10-4 about meeting new and old faces. #: 7413 S1/General Interest 16-Oct-90 09:04:34 Sb: #OS/9000 Fm: James O. Jones 76166,3110 To: sysop (X) l Hi, I've a question on OS/9000...where can more info and first hand description of how this 386 OS functions? Is there a "sub-forum" on the 9000 vers Appreciate any info There are 2 Replies. #: 7416 S1/General Interest 16-Oct-90 12:01:48 Sb: #7413-OS/9000 Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: James O. Jones 76166,3110 (X) James - Microware has their own forum here on CIS. You might like to have a gander over there. Try GO MSC. Pete #: 7433 S1/General Interest 16-Oct-90 18:30:15 Sb: #7413-#OS/9000 Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: James O. Jones 76166,3110 (X) I expect you'll get some first-hand answers; you should also give Microware a call and ask for a copy of *The OS-9000 Catalog*, which is free and gives a pretty good overview of the operating system. (GO MSC may have a menu that lets you request a copy, too; I haven't looked for that yet, so I don't know.) There is 1 Reply. #: 7463 S1/General Interest 17-Oct-90 08:53:50 Sb: #7433-OS/9000 Fm: James O. Jones 76166,3110 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Thanks for replies, Pete and ??...I will sign on the Microware forun...JJ #: 7415 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-90 11:50:19 Sb: #OSK BACKUP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hi Jack! If you haven't checked your mail, please do so. I uploaded 'backup' for you per Fred. He did have a bad copy on his distribution disk. Any more problems, let me know. Ed There are 2 Replies. #: 7442 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-90 20:22:43 Sb: #7415-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Thanks, Ed. I did get the file. Unfortunately, it was downloaded (automatically) by TAPCIS, so is now residing happily on my PC! All I have to do now is to figure out how to get it from PC to OS9. Even more unfortunately, my PC and the PT68 have incompatible disk formats (40-track vs 80), so I can't just copy the file, even if I could read/write DOS disks. I'll try to figure out something. In the meantime, I've been checking the other files and found one more bad one: dcheck. The test hasn't been exhaustive, tho. Let me suggest that I go through all the disks, and make sure there are no more bad ones. Once that's been decided, I can try to copy the files from PC to PT68. Even simpler, it might be best if you would be willing to put them on a disk, if I send you a disk with mailer. Would that be too much trouble? Thanks very much for your help. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 7460 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 04:21:05 Sb: #7442-OSK BACKUP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack! No problem ed #: 7473 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 18:49:08 Sb: #7415-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X) Ed, I checked all my files from Fred. There are only the two, backup and dcheck, that are bad. If there's some way you could help me get copies, I'd appreciate it. The problem with TAPCIS is that when it sees a message "You have mail," it automatically goes over, gets the mail, and the deletes the message. So I now have backup firmly emplanted on my PC, with no simple way to get it onto an OS9 disk. I can pipe it over via RS-232, except that I haven't installed the cables from Fred yet (of course, that shouldn't take more than 30 minutes or so). Not sure exactly what to do after that. Is there a modem program that comes with OS9, or can you just pipe a file from the serial port? Simplest thing, still, if you have an 80-track drive, may be just to put the darned things on disk. I'll reimburse you for the disk, natch. Thanks very much for your help. As long as I have your attention, I plan to install OS9 on my HD along with SK*DOS and Minix, and perhaps partitions for CP/M-68K and K-OS, as well. Any suggestions as to how best to organize this? I talked to Fred, but he doesn't know of anyone who's tried more than the two OS's (SK*DOS and OS9). Best, Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 7492 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 22:30:46 Sb: #7473-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Jack, You should be able to disable any forum in TAPCIS (including mail which is a special kind of forum.) Then you can log on directly or from OS9 and download the file. Check out STERM for a really good, simple (the S in Sterm stands for simple) terminal program with the best file trasfer protocol on CompuServe, B-protocol. There should be an OSK version in LIB 12. Bill There is 1 Reply. #: 7535 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Oct-90 19:15:23 Sb: #7492-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X) Yeah, I know, Bill. It's just that I didn't know that Ed's binary file was coming until it came. So by the time I knew about it, TAPCIS had downloaded the binary into my PC, and then deleted the file from CIS. Actually, even if it hadn't, it wouldn't do me much good without a modem program like the STERM program you mention. I think the best deal is to see if I can talk Ed into sending me a hard (as in vinyl) copy. Thanks for the lead on STERM, tho. I'll definitely be needing something like that soon. Jack There is 1 Reply. #: 7590 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 20-Oct-90 05:44:37 Sb: #7535-#OSK BACKUP Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X) Hi Jack! Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. I didn't have your address, so when I was talking to Carol (at PT), I told her of your problem - she said they will send you replacements - you should receive them shortly. It turned out that the disk they were using to copy from was damaged. They went back to the master and made new copies. Any more problems, just yell. Ed There is 1 Reply. #: 7623 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 21-Oct-90 05:25:04 Sb: #7590-OSK BACKUP Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 Thanks very much, Ed. I'll be looking for the (fourth!) disk from PT. I've talked to Carol many times, and she's always very helpful. I think they don't quite know what to make of me. It seems that if Murphy's law ever shows its ugly head, it's always with _MY_ orders. Anyhow, thanks again for your help. I see by reading some of the msgs between Paul, Frank, Kevin, and you re the Fest that you seem to have become the de facto PT spokesman, or chairman of the PT User's group, or something. Is that reasonably accurate? If so, have you ever considered making it official? We have an SK*DOS User's Group, and Peter Stark's BBS. But Peter's BBS is, naturally, devoted mainly to SK*DOS, although he has very kindly allowed us a section to talk about Minix and other OS's in general. As for the User's Group, the president, Sidney Thompson, seems to have disappeared into that black hole called Minix, and may never be seen again. (I'm semi-kidding .. I understand that Sidney's on reserve duty at the moment, which I reckon is a pretty fair excuse, but prior to that his involvement with SK*DOS had tapered off once Minix showed up.) Anyhow, a PT User's Group would be a nice thing to have around. Do you know Ron Anderson? He and I, and a few other PT users, get together by mail once in awhile. Other than that, and Peter's occassional newsletter, it's tough to get much info as to what the other guys are doing. Jack #: 7419 S8/BBS Systems/TSMon 16-Oct-90 16:17:15 Sb: New CoCo3 BBS! Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: ALL Announcing the newest CoCo3 BBS, The BBS by the Sea! Hosted by myself, Zack Sessions, ColorSystems. Access time is currently limited to: 8AM until 5PM and \___Sunday thru Thursday 5PM until 11PM (limited access) / 24 hr Friday and Saturday (full 24 hr/7 day support in the not to distant future) 2400/1200/300 8N1 (919) 675-1847 (using "The Astral Plane" BBS Software for OS9 Level 2 by Mike Guzzi) #: 7435 S7/Telecommunications 16-Oct-90 18:59:27 Sb: #UUCP Fm: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 Although I have not yet been able to use UUCP, for reasons following, I am very impressed with your Docs. They are such a pleasure to read. Are you a language buff? I have searched all over and have been unable to locate Cron or Go, can you advise where they are? Do you have a net directory showing a node for area 705, specifically Orillia, Ontario, Canada? There is 1 Reply. #: 7447 S7/Telecommunications 16-Oct-90 21:41:25 Sb: #7435-UUCP Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106 Mark is, for a while, not going to be on CIS--I fear that your message to him will have scrolled off by the time he returns. Give DL9 a shot in search of cron and go. Probably the simplest way to find out what systems one might connect to is by inquiring at local universities or companies that are likely to use Unix. Past that, I don't know of anyone in particular in that area. #: 7436 S9/Utilities 16-Oct-90 19:02:42 Sb: #Rssave Fm: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106 To: Zack C. Sessions 76407,1524 (X) I appreciate what you have done with rssave.ar, but why can't the device names be passed as parameters. Also why assume that RSDOS is located in There is 1 Reply. #: 7451 S9/Utilities 16-Oct-90 22:15:20 Sb: #7436-Rssave Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106 Some of your message got cut off. I figured only one device would ever be specified, that being the device which has the RSDOS disk in it. I mention in the docs that this characterstring constant was located in only one place and how to patch it for something other than /d0. Was that not enough? Zack #: 7437 S9/Utilities 16-Oct-90 19:08:23 Sb: #Cron Fm: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106 To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 I have found cron only. There is 1 Reply. #: 7445 S9/Utilities 16-Oct-90 20:55:31 Sb: #7437-Cron Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106 Kevin - GO was in the UGLIB database (DL5). If not there presently, ask Mike Ward (76703,2013) to pull it from the archives for you. Another tool you may like is 'dispatch.ar' in DL9. Enjoy... Pete #: 7439 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 16-Oct-90 20:05:52 Sb: #Disk ID change Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: all I have a bunch of binary floppy disk images out on my hard disk. I can use FHL's "fu" program to write one of these disk images out to a floppy disk - this works just fine. I then changed my ramdisk to be the same size as the floppy disk. I then used "fu" to copy the floppy image out to the ramdisk. When I attempt a dir or chd to the ramdisk I get this nifty message: "Error #000:251 (E$DIDC) Disk ID change. RBF copies the disk ID number (from sector zero) into the path descriptor of each path when it is opened. If this does not agree with the driver's current disk ID, this error is returned. The driver updates the current disk ID only when sector zero is read; it is therefore possible to swap disks without RBF noticing. This check helps to prevent that possibility." This is ok, but I just wrote a new image to the ramdisk on purpose! How do I get RBF to temporarily ignore this "disk ID change?" There is 1 Reply. #: 7456 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 02:00:49 Sb: #7439-#Disk ID change Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Jay - that IS strange... as a new chd/chx should open its own temp path and take the new ID number in stride. Do you give a full pathname (/r0?). kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7461 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 06:01:30 Sb: #7456-#Disk ID change Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Yes. "dir /r0" and "chd /r0" both failed. I can "fu" the disk image to the ramdisk in about two seconds versus the gizillion seconds it takes to fu the image to floppy although I think I can reduce the floppy time by messing with the interleave a bit but it won't get anywhere close to the two seconds! There are 2 Replies. #: 7474 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 19:55:13 Sb: #7461-Disk ID change Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Hmm. I wonder if that ramdisk always makes up a hardcoded disk id or something along those lines? It must, or you'd be okay. Well, the only thing I can think of to do is this: read and save the original ramdisk ID, then do the fu, then rewrite the disk ID in LSN 0 (if you can). The ID is at offset $0E-0F in LSN 0. May not work even tho opening a disk raw (@) bypasses some checks, but it's worth a shot! #: 7484 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 22:01:50 Sb: #7461-#Disk ID change Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Kevin, I just happened to have a couple of BASIC programs that save and restore LSN0. Disk ID of the virgin ramdisk was zero, disk ID of the "new" ramdisk image wasn't. I wrote a very short procedure file that calls "dmp" (from the UG disks or here, I forget where I got it) to set the ramdisk's ID back to zero. Works like a champ and takes a mere four seconds or so! Thanks for the help, I was just curious why the ramdisk returned the error and the floppy didn't! -J There is 1 Reply. #: 7489 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 22:25:15 Sb: #7484-#Disk ID change Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X) Jay - excellent! I was checking my flowcharts of RBF (not very clear or new ones, either) and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. But doesn't the ramdisk "self-format" itself? That was the clue, I think... and perhaps its driver also hardcodes that ID number. Time to take it apart and change it... (any volunteers? :-). Just a guess, tho. Glad it works! best - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7522 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Oct-90 13:58:18 Sb: #7489-Disk ID change Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) I believe that it does "self format" as you don't have to do anything to it other than load and link the descriptor to be able to use it. #: 7449 S7/Telecommunications 16-Oct-90 22:10:02 Sb: uucp info Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 To: all Greeting- Everyone who gets the uucp package needs to get the login package that Mark uploaded as well. This is needed for uusteup to work correctly. It gives encrypted passwords and the abaility for users to change thier own passwords. I think mark put it in the bbs dl section. If it is not there let me know and I will upload it myself. -Brett /ex #: 7455 S6/Applications 17-Oct-90 01:03:41 Sb: #SmartWatch Fm: DAVID HENSLEY 73030,3717 To: ALL Does anyone know how to access the Tandy SmartWatch from RSDOS? I have the drivers for OS9, but cant understand them when dissassembled. If Dave ZHensley Hensley There is 1 Reply. #: 7457 S6/Applications 17-Oct-90 02:06:54 Sb: #7455-SmartWatch Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: DAVID HENSLEY 73030,3717 Dave - hmm. I'd look for any section that appears to be swapping in the Basic ROMs (?) to enable access to the SmartWatch. I'm afraid I'm not much help here. Perhaps someone else can point you to some commented source code. Luck! #: 7462 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 08:36:21 Sb: #FD501 controller Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: all Will the Tandy 501 disk controller work with OS-9 Level II? For that matter, what is the difference between the 501 and the 502? It seems that I've got a 501 controller laying around that I could use with a CoCo3 and I'm wondering if that would make a decent controller for OS-9. Also, what kind of disk drives would I need to buy for it? There is 1 Reply. #: 7475 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 20:44:04 Sb: #7462-#FD501 controller Fm: Randy Wilson 71561,756 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) David, The FD-501 should work fine with the CoCo3 and OS9/L2. It can use any standard drive except the hi-cap 1.2 and 1.44s. 40 track, 80 track, single or double sided, 5.25 or 3.5; it doesn't care. Just hammer together an approperiate(sp?) cable and use the proper descriptors. The only thing to watch is that the original OS9 disks are 5.25 48tpi (formatted to 35 track, single sided), so a 360K 5.25 drive might be the best bet. BTW, the controller can handle up to three double sided drives of any mix. The major difference between the FD-501 and the FD-502 is in the drive. The 501 had a 40 track single sided, and the 502 has a double sided drive. Randy There is 1 Reply. #: 7488 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 22:23:09 Sb: #7475-#FD501 controller Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Randy Wilson 71561,756 (X) Thanks! I might even have an old 360K drive kicking around somewhere. Sounds like playing with OS-9 might not cost more that a few hundred dollars. Are there any PD languages available like C or an assembler? I assume that the standard OS-9 kit from RS doesn't include either. There is 1 Reply. #: 7490 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 22:25:43 Sb: #7488-#FD501 controller Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) CoCo OS-9/6809 Level Two doesn't include C or assembler, though it does include BASIC09. CoCo OS-9/6809 Level One does include an assembler, but not BASIC09. For that matter, Steve Childress's macro assembler for OS-9/6809 is, I think, in one of the DLs. There is 1 Reply. #: 7493 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 22:32:52 Sb: #7490-FD501 controller Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) A macro assembler would be fine. This is beginning to look like a real possiblity. Of course, I'd rather have one of the new TOMCAT boards, but the CoCo might be an interesting way to get started. Thanks for your help. #: 7468 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 16:25:27 Sb: #Hard Disk Defrag Fm: J SILLIMAN 72355,1207 To: all Hey all, got a small problem with my 20meg hd. I am running a bbs on the system and I seem to be running into a bit of a fragmentation problem. I have tried the File System Repack, and found it to corrupt files and takes WAY too long for my likeing. Is there any other programs out in the PD or commertial areas that will repack the drive faster, and more reliably? Hope to hear from someone!!! There is 1 Reply. #: 7470 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 18:41:28 Sb: #7468-Hard Disk Defrag Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: J SILLIMAN 72355,1207 J - Best bet is simple, but laborious: 1. backup the disk (use HDKIT, or equivalent) 2. format the drive again (logical is okay, but why not take the opportunity to freshly write track and sector headers). 3. restore the drive (again, HDKIT or equivalent). Pete #: 7469 S7/Telecommunications 17-Oct-90 18:19:49 Sb: #UUCP Fm: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 To: ALL Could someone explain what uucp.ar is???? There is 1 Reply. #: 7471 S7/Telecommunications 17-Oct-90 18:44:19 Sb: #7469-#UUCP Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 (X) Phil - A gross simplification is that it is a Unix-like intersystem communication tool. It is complex, a bit weird to setup, requires a hard disk, a dedicated modem line, and a lot of patience. OS9/Unix wizardry is also a plus. Basically, it mails (and receives from) other systems via the modem. It is the backbone of a multi-site (thousands) multi-system network called USENET, among other things. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7536 S7/Telecommunications 18-Oct-90 19:43:02 Sb: #7471-#UUCP Fm: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Hi Pete-- Is it like a BBs and can you use it instead of a terminal program? What's a dedicated modem? There are 2 Replies. #: 7541 S7/Telecommunications 18-Oct-90 21:59:14 Sb: #7536-#UUCP Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 (X) By "dedicated" in this context is meant that the modem is not used for anything else. UUCP isn't like a BBS--the computers involved call one another up and trade information without direct human control or supervision. There is 1 Reply. #: 7605 S7/Telecommunications 20-Oct-90 13:22:44 Sb: #7541-UUCP Fm: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Thanks James--Then it's nothing special! #: 7554 S7/Telecommunications 19-Oct-90 11:39:36 Sb: #7536-#UUCP Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 (X) Nope - couldn't be farther from a BBS. A dedicated modem is one that people aren't trying to use as a phone line as well. I.e., a second phone line in your house. Optimally, UUCP runs best with separate dial-in and dial-out lines, although skullduggery (sp?) can be used to 'flip' the line's roles. I believe Bob Larson uploaded some definition files describing some of the UUCP (and other) concepts... why not have a gander there first... Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7606 S7/Telecommunications 20-Oct-90 13:24:18 Sb: #7554-UUCP Fm: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Thanks for the info Pete--it sounds like an interesting project!! #: 7472 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 18:46:00 Sb: #Visit Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 To: Paul K. Ward Paul, (or maybe Kevin Darling) I'll be in Raleigh this weekend visiting a friend. Would it be possible for me to drop by and see an MM1 in person on Saturday? Hugo Bueno There is 1 Reply. #: 7497 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 17-Oct-90 22:47:09 Sb: #7472-#Visit Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 (X) Hugo, Sure! Paul There is 1 Reply. #: 7532 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 18-Oct-90 18:21:39 Sb: #7497-#Visit Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X) OK, how do we go about this? Just show up? I'd need an address (and time if necessary). Thanks, I much appreciate the opportunity! Hugo There is 1 Reply. #: 7564 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK) 19-Oct-90 18:07:05 Sb: #7532-Visit Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 (X) Leave Kev a note! After 1:00 pm would be best! Paul #: 7480 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 17-Oct-90 21:45:15 Sb: #1 Meg Upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, Well, I jumped from partial success with DM3 right over to MV, rechecked everything and got the same results- lockup or OS9 boot failed after the Microware logo. Then I remembered your suggestion as to why DM3 was locking up (btw. that's R22). I removed the jumper and replaced it with a 150ohm resistor (in parallel with r22 gives about 66ohms). voila. MV is running! but with one problem... I found out what changing MEM= to 1024: you can key to the first OS9 shell you make but you can't go anywhere else; yer stuck. So back to MEM=512 and all seems to be well. I'll bet DM3 doesn't lock up any more either when I can get back to it. Btw. had to add RS's 12dc fan to keep the new chips from freaking out from overheating. Located it against the rf modulator with some foam tape and modelers' support struts. Seems to be doing the job altho it hasn't had a really good work out yet. Thanks to all on the forum for enough support to keep me going. Looks like the main problem was not putting both new patches into the software straightaway instead of experimenting around. Well, I did learn from it and that's what it's all about. -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7508 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 02:40:03 Sb: #7480-1 Meg Upgrade Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Good news so far! Kudos for not giving up . Hope you're rolling along fine now. best - kev #: 7498 S3/Languages 17-Oct-90 23:12:16 Sb: #strftime() Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: all Does anyone know what the correct format for digit conversion in the function strftime() is? I've just ported a version of this to MW-6809, but I'm not completely happy with it. The version I snarfed has all the different values being displayed as 2 digits (eg. 01, 09, 31, etc.). I'm not sure that the leading '0' should appear on most of the options. My reference does not specify the number of digits to display (just that day of week is 0 to 6 and day of month is 1 to 31, etc.). Anyone got a better text than mine? Once I get this working properly I'll post it.... There is 1 Reply. #: 7519 S3/Languages 18-Oct-90 12:11:11 Sb: #7498-#strftime() Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X) Bob - I don't recognize that function.... Where did it come from? Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7574 S3/Languages 19-Oct-90 21:23:57 Sb: #7519-#strftime() Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) Pete, strftime() is an ANSI C function which converts time to a formatted stirng. Lots of options, similar to printf(), let you set the format just as you need. I got the docs from "C: The Complete Reference", Schil and "stole" the source from the Mix C complier for the IBM. Schildt's book does not talk about precision, the Mix C stuff left pads all the numbers with 0's. Does this help? There is 1 Reply. #: 7597 S3/Languages 20-Oct-90 09:53:00 Sb: #7574-strftime() Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 Bob - That explains my ignorance... I'm largely ANSI C ignorant (blush), except for function prototyping. Well, that 'fessed up, how can I help you make your code work? Pete #: 7500 S7/Telecommunications 18-Oct-90 00:02:40 Sb: Net definitions uploaded Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: all I've uploaded my definitions of a number of network and related terms in the file "nets" in dl7. (It's longer than compuserve allows in a message.) If you are wondering what usenet, uucp, and the Internet are you might want to take a look at it. #: 7501 S7/Telecommunications 18-Oct-90 00:19:21 Sb: reply to message 7370 Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: sdf Upon rereading my own article, apperently one nights sleep wasn't enough time to calm down properly. Apologies to all for the tone of the message. I am a usenet junky who grabs the messages form compuserve around once a week. Their software is very different from what I am used to and like, and I only continue because of the limited number of os9 people on usenet. Considering how little I use it, I consider $7/month high priced. (I try to minimize interaction with compuserves software, and now use rn to read the messages I've downloaded.) Compuserves funky extra headers associated with files are not something I am realy used to, although I knew they existed. #: 7502 S7/Telecommunications 18-Oct-90 00:20:30 Sb: reply to message 7374 Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: all Complied code is always inferior to source, and I never distribute it. My system has my own customizations that have a high likelyhood of interaction with packages like uucp, so there is a good chance that a uucp set up for a vanila osk system would work sub-optimaly. From what I have seen and heard of TOPS, they make different changes, and much of their software won't work without those changes. Because of my disagreement with the copyright on it, I will not be installing any TOPS software requiring "getinfo". (The TOPS authors and I have some fundamental disagreements which have been discussed at length in comp.os.os9. As with most such discussions, noone changed their mind.) I will not install any free software I do not have source to. #: 7503 S7/Telecommunications 18-Oct-90 00:21:21 Sb: #reply to 7384 Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: all Authors who are willing to distribute executable code without source are likely to be people who would run executable code from other such authors. If you do not see the problem with this, you don't understand how viruses work. Commercial messydos and mac programs have been distributed with viruses. It does appear that compuserve has made some needed improvements to their kermit. The previous bug of insisting on 8-bit quoting when it is avaialable is gone, and long packets are now supported. I did make a mistake which wound up not requesting long packets (which compuserve kermit now supports). I have not tested whether compuserve kermit supports windowing yet, c-kermit 5a (the first unix kermit that supports them) was still in alpha test not ready for porting to osk last time I checked. Obviously I meant 561 bits/second, not characters/second. The short tests I have made with long packets enabled show reasonable throuput of about 1500 bps. (Still half what I get under execelent conditions at v.22bis (2400 baud) mnp5 (compression). I'll try v.32 (9600 baud) v.42bis (better compression) when I receive the new modem I have ordered.) Speed is as reported by the status command of c-kermit. There is 1 Reply. #: 7579 S7/Telecommunications 19-Oct-90 23:22:46 Sb: #7503-reply to 7384 Fm: William Phelps 75100,265 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) The last time I checked CompuServe's modems only support MNP level 4; so, You will never get the speed you want. However B+ is a LOT faster than Kermit, so transfers using it should approach your ideal speed. William #: 7504 S7/Telecommunications 18-Oct-90 00:22:05 Sb: #reply to 7431 Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: all I cannot see downloading and supporting a compuserve-specfic protocol for the 1 file a year I download. Uploads I refused to do because of compuserves previous lowsy version of kermit and charge for uploads ($.25/hour isn't free) I consider their loss not mine. There are 2 Replies. #: 7518 S7/Telecommunications 18-Oct-90 10:26:00 Sb: #7504-reply to 7431 Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) $0.25/hour is a *LOT* cheaper than any other network, be it Telenet, Tymenet, Accunet, AT&T long distance or Sprint or MCI. Shoot, it's so much cheaper, it's almost as if they are paying *you* to upload ! If I submit to a uucp gateway in NYC, it costs me mucho more than that just in long distance charges (and I live in New Jersey). (FWIW, it really doesn't cost me a thing from work). You're right, it's our loss, not yours, though. Mark #: 7547 S7/Telecommunications 18-Oct-90 23:43:06 Sb: #7504-reply to 7431 Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X) You're right, Robert... $0.25/hour isn't free. Neither is the electricity for all those computers and network lines that provide the service to the folks that use it. If the $0.25/hour is the only stumbling block to your uploading something, let us know. We'll either send you a couple of quarters, or give you the address of a SYSOP that will be glad to upload your files for you. If you can't see using a CompuServe proprietary protocol that gives a significant improvement in throughput over any other protocol currently in use, then it would do no good to try and convince you otherwise. But you're wrong when you say it's "their" loss and not yours, Robert. If you consider yourself a member of the OS-9 community, then you share in the loss that occurs when we are unable to reach over minor stumbling blocks to exchange information that makes the system better off for all of us. Wayne Day forum manager #: 7516 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 10:10:48 Sb: #1-meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling, 76703,4227 (X) Worked with MV a bit more and found a limitation in the number of windows one can make. It seems that window memory is maxed out at 512k. This allowed up to 6 or 7 os9 shells while still having over 400k MFREE. Knowing also that we can not change the env.file's MEM= at this time, I guess we're left with regular OS9 if we need more windows, right? But I'll bet someone is working on a fix for this. (right again mebbe?) -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7528 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 16:29:34 Sb: #7516-#1-meg upgrade Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Paul - I wasn't aware of any limitation with gshell that way. The 1-meg software will use all the memory for video if need be. Hmmm. Perhaps gshell counts up window memory sizes? In any case, you should be able to open windows yourself and use up more of that memory for video, if you wish. Oh, and you have more than just w1-w7 in memory, right? (that is, you also have w8-15?) Not having more descs would certainly stop gshell. There is 1 Reply. #: 7552 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 07:55:08 Sb: #7528-#1-meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Yes, descriptors 1 thru 12 get loaded in booting up but I'm not able to use more than 6 or 7 with either MV or OS9. Now I'm getting error 237 a lot, sometimes can't even do DIR. When using MV to put more than one small window on the same screen, sometimes it works, most often the cursor skips over the screen where the smaller one was created and you don't get a choice. (?). -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7556 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 13:28:18 Sb: #7552-1-meg upgrade Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) If an aif indicates a certain minimum size which is too big to fit anywhere else, then gshell would skip screens where it wouldn't fit. Might be that. Yes, error 237 (system 64K map full) will probably hit you long before an error 207 (all ram blocks used up everywhere). Path and process descriptors along with device memory usage, will fill up the system map when you get many things going at once. My util SMap will show you this going on. That is caused partly also by the size of our system map gfx modules: cc3io and windint... along with all the other drivers/etc we all usually boot up with. Hard to get around without leaving some out. #: 7517 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 18-Oct-90 10:15:13 Sb: #Source Code Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: all I want to come to the defense Robert Larson (not counting his tone for which he already apologized) as I feel the same way he does about source. I have on my machine (in its own directory) a previous release of TOP utilities that I received from Microware (for a copying fee only). There are many programs which will not run at all on my machine because they attempt to use memory which has not been allocated to them. These programs WILL run on (and possibly corrupt) systems which do not have memory protection. On the other hand, I have downloaded Stevie with source and Kermit with source from here. I think kermit was originally ported by Robert. Neither one of them worked on my system "out of the box", but I was able to fix several bugs in them only because I had SOURCE CODE. While I have not downloaded Mark's uucp package, I appreciate anyone willing to upload code for other people to use as it represents humongous effort. Uucp probably required more effort than any other package in the libraries. Source code would still be nice. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 7544 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 18-Oct-90 22:24:23 Sb: #7517-#Source Code Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X) Mark, I'm really confused over all this fuss. Mark is not declining to release the source to UUCP. He's only declined to post it in an effort to maintain some degree of control over his efforts. Last time I discussed this issue with him, he was willing to send the source to anyone that asked and included a small fee to cover media, postage and handling. Is there some problem with this arrangement? Steve There are 2 Replies. #: 7546 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 18-Oct-90 23:08:05 Sb: #7544-#Source Code Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Well...I certainly understand Mark's position--goodness knows that in the past people have had the experience of writing a program, posting the source, and then being taken to task for bugs in version that have been drastically modified by some random person. On the other hand, I certainly understand Mr. Larson's position, and indeed have taken a similar position myself in a similar situation. UUCP, by its nature, potentially sends one's files off to another system, and without considerable care is a major potential security hole. If login is part of the package--well, login is the first line of defense for security, and any sort of back door in it is a major calamity. I'm certainly not implying anything about the package that Mark Griffith has spent so much time on. In fact, my inclination, by virtue of knowing how long Mark has been around, and how many programs that Mark has worked on to the benefit of the OS-9 community, is to trust the package. Mr. Larson, though, may not know Mark, and considering the potential for calamity, is understandably leery about installing something without source code to examine and compile. (The similar situation alluded to above was the (first) TOP release, which did not include code. TOP appears to be doing a lot for OS-9, too, but without knowing a lot more about them, I couldn't bring myself to trust their replacement login for OS-9/68000, for example. My understanding is that the later TOP releases included source, so my concerns aren't necessarily applicable any longer.) So...oops, that should read "did not include source code" above. Anyway, that's what I think is happening. There is 1 Reply. #: 7569 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 19-Oct-90 20:24:29 Sb: #7546-Source Code Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) JJ, I don't disagree with anything you've said. As I've mentioned to Mark W. in another reply, perhaps Mark would agree to allowing folks to download the source from his system. This way ... folks still have to ask, and he still maintains some degree of control. I'll have to ask. Steve #: 7553 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 19-Oct-90 09:00:29 Sb: #7544-#Source Code Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Steve, No, I have no problem with the arrangement, except that having it up here is so much nicer. The only removeable media I have left on one system is a 150mb streaming tape that few other os9ers have (my problem). Compuserve is something we all have in common (although some D**phi'ers don't even agree with that) and so it is just more convenient. I'm not complaining, but I just understand Robert's feelings on the matter. I appreciate Mark's effort (is use the fool out of sterm) as much as anybody, I believe. Mark There is 1 Reply. #: 7568 S14/misc/info/Soapbox 19-Oct-90 20:21:57 Sb: #7553-Source Code Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 Mark, No ... I do see both sides of the issue. As Mark is willing to release the source, perhaps he would also allow it to be downloaded from his system. (He does keep his system up on a dial up basis). I'm in contact with him almost daily. I'll check and see. Steve #: 7520 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 12:26:10 Sb: #CoCo disk drivers, etc. Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: all Well, I'm now the proud owner of OS-9 Level II for the CoCo3! Unfortunately, I don't own a machine to run it on yet. I've been looking through the manual though and have a few questions. The section on "Customizing Your System" describes the various devices that you can configure into your system. It seems to allow either a 35 track single sided D0 or a 40 track double sided one, but not an 80 track double sided one. Is it possible to make D0 a 720K 3.5 inch drive? I know that I'd have to have a 5.25 inch drive to start with in order to read the distribution disks, but is there a way to switch over to a 720K drive as D0? Also, there isn't an entry for D3_80D. Can I have four 720K drives on my system? I've got the FD501 disk controller from RS. How many drives will it support? Will it support 720K drives? One last question. I've got a 9 inch monochrome composite monitor. Will that produce an acceptable 80 column display? Thanks in advance for any answers. David Betz There is 1 Reply. #: 7524 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 16:05:56 Sb: #7520-#CoCo disk drivers, etc. Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) You can create device descriptors pretty easily by copying a similar one and changing it as necessary with a disk zapper program like dEd. You can have /d0 as a 3.5" 720K. You cannot have four ds devices with the 501. You can use 720K DS drives with the 501. The 501 can only support up to 3 DS drives any mix, 40-5.25, 80-5.25, 80-3.5. The 9" should look OK, I have a 10.5(?) "Magnavox Computer Monitor 80" which looks pretty decent. Zack There is 1 Reply. #: 7526 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 16:19:46 Sb: #7524-CoCo disk drivers, etc. Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) Thanks! #: 7521 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 12:28:53 Sb: #C Compiler compatability Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: all I've got an old copy of the OS-9 C compiler that originally run under OS-9 Level 1. Will it run under Level 2? Also, will the assembler that came with OS-9 Level 1 work with Level 2? There is 1 Reply. #: 7525 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 16:07:33 Sb: #7521-#C Compiler compatability Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Yes it wil work just fine under level 2, and the c.asm will work fine, too. I am assuming the Compiler you have is the same one currently sold by Tandy, there never was a special "Level 2" version released. Zack There is 1 Reply. #: 7527 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 16:20:34 Sb: #7525-C Compiler compatability Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X) Yes, it is the Tandy compiler (shrink wrapped and everything!). Thanks! #: 7523 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 14:17:20 Sb: #SCSI interface? Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: all Does anyone know of a CoCo hard disk interface that will support SCSI drives? Ideally, I'd like to find a combination floppy/hard disk interface. There are 2 Replies. #: 7529 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 16:35:24 Sb: #7523-#SCSI interface? Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) David - Yes, there are several coco SCSI (actually, mostly SASI) interfaces. Ignoring sasi/scsi controller boards that also support floppies, there are also two coco-specific floppy/hard-disk combo paks: the Eliminator from FHL and the Disto line of floppy/add-on cards (which fit inside their floppy controller pak). I would urge you to try to find a copy of Rainbow magazine at a mag store (Dalton's, Waldenbooks too, perhaps) and check out the ads. Oh, and the Eliminator and Disto paks can be had with serial ports, clocks, parallel ports etc also... or are included. There is 1 Reply. #: 7543 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 22:23:11 Sb: #7529-#SCSI interface? Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Thanks for the advice. I looked at a copy of Rainbow that a local RS store had and found the number for a company called CRC that sells Disto controllers. Apparently, they are now running a sale. I can get their model II controller with a hard disk interface and an RS232 port for around $155. This controller claims to be able to run floppy drives at full speed without slowing down keyboard response. Sounds pretty good to me, although I may just wait and pickup one of the TC9 boards when they come out. I just wish I could get one right now (I'm not impatient, am I? :-) There is 1 Reply. #: 7545 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 18-Oct-90 22:54:39 Sb: #7543-SCSI interface? Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) There at least used to be an outfit called RGB (RGB Systems?) that sold, or sells if it's still around, SCSI interfaces for the CoCo. #: 7582 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 23:35:47 Sb: #7523-SCSI interface? Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Dave, I think a company called Performance Peripherals is still alive and kicking with what I hear is a super SCSI implementation for the CoCo! I betcha someone here knows the scoop! Let me know what you learn. Paul #: 7537 S5/OS9 Users Group 18-Oct-90 19:59:06 Sb: #Sterm_reply Fm: Stanley L. Goldsberry 72060,2720 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Thanks to you and James Jones. I have Sterm working correctly. I was pleasantly supprised at the efficiency of B+. I used xmode to change to the proper baud rate and put all elements of the program in thier proper /dd/xxx positions again Thanks Heaps for the help There is 1 Reply. #: 7542 S5/OS9 Users Group 18-Oct-90 22:16:30 Sb: #7537-Sterm_reply Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Stanley L. Goldsberry 72060,2720 Great! Nice to hear it's up and running. I'm sure you'll agree, B+ is the way to go ... at least here. Steve #: 7539 S15/Hot Topics 18-Oct-90 21:32:33 Sb: #Advertising Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: Paul Ward Paul, by now no doubt you have made several silent vows about what you will or will not say in the future! As an os9 user who likes competion but cringes at in-fighting, i think that FHL's approach of neither competitor mentioning the other is good. FWIW this is also (or has been anyway) IBM's approach. Typically you cannot get their salesmen to comment on another mfgs product. Their approach is always "I'll tell you about IBM's products. If you want to know about brand X then you'd best ask them". Even their benchmark publications typically benchmark IBM machines against each other not against the competition. I gues that they have found it gets them into less trouble in the long run, whether their comments are good, bad, or neutral - they don't make them. As Calvin coolidge might have said - If you don't say nothing they can't take offence. There is 1 Reply. #: 7584 S15/Hot Topics 19-Oct-90 23:45:56 Sb: #7539-Advertising Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X) Greg, Well, certainly I take what you say deeply to heart! I didn't intend at ALL for there to be infighting, as the mood in my heart with my two comments had no true malice. I showed poor judgment in my comment to Ed, and showed confusion about what Frank defines as as Tomcat in my message to Frank. I honestly have tried to keep OUT of saying things that respond to competitor's comments! If you look back over messages, you'll find that there were plenty of opportunities for me to join in. But I didn't -- although it was hard! But my discipline did fail, and so I failed, and now I move on and say -- Bill D., Kevin D., and Ed, thanks for keeping me honest! And thanks, too, Greg, for the kindly way you phrased your enjoinder to keep on the "high road"! Best regards, Paul #: 7557 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 13:47:37 Sb: #1 meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling I tried to expand the capacity of the ram driver ram.8k using DMODE /r0 cyl=023 ; INIZ /r0 FREE /r0 showed over 1100 sectors but DIR gave error 214 (or was it 216?) Couldn't copy anything to /r0 after increasing cylinders. -ph- Re previous message: so if I don't fill up the 64k work space, then more than 6-7 full screen windows should be possible? And up to a maximum of 15? There is 1 Reply. #: 7558 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 15:23:35 Sb: #7557-#1 meg upgrade Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Paul - not sure. Which ram driver? Also, be sure to chd/chx away from the ramdisk before messing with it. Otherwise just "dir" might be confused (as what it had been chd'd to is no longer around - chd goes by sector and device, not by names). Right, as long as the system (kernel, driver, managers, and so on) 64K doesn't get filled up, you can keep adding processes and windows. The actual maximum window count is 32, but overlay windows (menus are also oops no they're not -sorry) count towards that maximum, so 16 (term and w1-5) seems like a fair limit. PS: you're doing fine. Could I get you to keep these msgs in section 10 (coco) tho? Thanks! - kev There is 1 Reply. #: 7594 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 07:45:51 Sb: #7558-#1 meg upgrade Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Kevin, the ram driver is Ken Drexler's adaptation of your rammer developed for 4k block machines, but containing an 8k version largely untested. I believe it was called RAMDISK.AR or RAMDRIVE.AR. Forgot which library it's in. Instead of pursuing this farther, due to time contraints, I believe I'll wait for the release of Microcom's ramdrive for the 1 meg upgrade. Any way to determine unused system memory, or sys-memory used? -ph- There is 1 Reply. #: 7618 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 22:56:30 Sb: #7594-1 meg upgrade Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X) Yes, get UTIL2.BIN, UTIL3.BIN (more utils plus replacements for some in UTIL2) and UTIL2.DOC... in there is SMap, which will show you system memory space, and the other utils like PMap will help you visualize different maps. The docs are super bare, so yell if you can't figure out what you see ! #: 7559 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 15:32:56 Sb: #FD501 cable Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: all Well, it seems that I've got a working FD501 interface. Now I need a cable to attach it to my floppy drive(s). Will a straight ribbon cable with the appropriate connectors work or do I need something a little more exotic? There are 2 Replies. #: 7560 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 17:24:26 Sb: #7559-#FD501 cable Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) David - Tandy, in their questionable wisdom, used special cables. There's a workaraound though.... The Tandy drives have all the select lines set to ON. Then, they remove all but 1 drive select pin from the edge connector at each point on the ribbon cable. This way, the drive # is a function of where it is placed on the ribbon cable. Example: the drive 0 connector (on the Tandy cable) would have pin 10 hooked up, but not pin 12, 14, or (32 or 34?)... The workaround is get a cable with all 34 pins connected, and just disable the jumpers on the disk drive for drive selects that aren't wanted. Pete There is 1 Reply. #: 7561 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 17:34:17 Sb: #7560-FD501 cable Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X) That sounds pretty straight forward. Thanks for the info. David #: 7565 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 18:10:41 Sb: #7559-#FD501 cable Fm: Randy Wilson 71561,756 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) David, If I'm assuming correctly, you do NOT have the Tandy drives, just the controller. In this case, just make a ribbon cable with all the pins passed straight through, set the drive select jumpers on the drives, and go. Oh, if provided, set the motor-on and head solinoid to follow the motor-on line, not the select line. To answer some of your other (and coming) questions, you have three options that I can think of off hand. The builtin "serial" port (called the bit-banger) is useless for telcom under OS9 (details upon request). One is the Disto Super Controller 2 with the 4-in-1 board. This will give you a serial, parallel, hardware clock, SCSI port, and a "no-halt" (read sector cacheing) floppy controller. The second option is the Eliminator. This has two serials, a parallel, RTC, and interfaces to an external controller (forgot which one, check FHL's ad in Rainbow) for a floppy and 506/412 HD controller. The third is to wait for a TomCat or other to grace your desk. There are other ways to add all the needed periphrials, but most(all?) of the rest would require an external bus expansion thingie, which makes things more expensive, and a whole bunch uglier. Study the ads in a Rainbow, and ask away. Randy There is 1 Reply. #: 7567 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 19:14:01 Sb: #7565-FD501 cable Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Randy Wilson 71561,756 (X) Thanks, Randy. Right now, I think I'm going to stick with the FD501 and a 360K drive and maybe two 720K drives. I've managed to piece together a copy of OS-9 (on sale at RS), the C compiler (had that from the last time I tried to put together a CoCo system) and the FD501. All I need now is the CoCo3 itself and some drives. I've already got a PC power supply that will power the drives. The setup will be *very* ugly since the drives won't be mounted in a case, but I suppose it will work. Thanks again, David #: 7562 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 17:38:44 Sb: #software survey Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: all Now that I seem to be on my way into the CoCo3 OS-9 world, I'm starting to wonder what sorts of other people use this system. What sorts of applications do people here use OS-9 for? Are many of you developers? What sorts of software are you developing? What kinds of software are you looking for that you can't find in the stuff that's already available? Right now, I'd like to find a program that runs on the CoCo and will ready 360K MS-DOS disks to make it easier to move stuff between my 386SX machine and the CoCo. Actually, a program that ran under MS-DOS that could read/write OS-9 disks would be fine also. Has the directory structure of an CoCo OS-9 disk been published? David Betz There is 1 Reply. #: 7586 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 01:11:52 Sb: #7562-#software survey Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Well...I use my CoCo for modeming, as a terminal to my 68020 box, to edit text, and to play music. I also do some programming, though it seems that a lot of the time I wind up modifying code rather than writing it. What I'd like to see on the CoCo is a reasonable desktop publishing program, sort of what Home Publisher should have been. A program that does something like SoftCraft's Fancy Fonts would be very nice, too. As for dealing with MS-DOS format stuff, you have several alternatives. I think that at least one of them lives in DL10 here. D.P. Johnson sells what is from the OS-9 point of view the most elegant solution, namely a file manager that handles MS-DOS format disks. (It requires his device driver, SDISK3.) Another outfit, Granite Computer Systems (I may not have that name right!), sells some programs that manipulate MS-DOS disks. (It might require SDISK3, too; I'm not sure about that.) There is 1 Reply. #: 7592 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 07:02:24 Sb: #7586-software survey Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: James Jones 76257,562 (X) Thanks for your comments. I'll take a look in DL10 for the MS-DOS handling stuff. #: 7581 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 19-Oct-90 23:29:50 Sb: #hard drive Fm: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 To: 72240,304 Chris: I have decided on the hard drive. What I need to do now is decide on which one to go with. I am well aware of the popularity of your unit, and am giving it much consideration. What I would like to know from you is will the CoCo XT work with the Disto stuff I'm now using? My system as of now consists of: CoCo 3 with Disto 512K upgradec Disto Super Controller I Disto 3in1 board. (RS232,RTC,Parallel port) Bob Puppo's keyboard interface I have a Tandy MPI, but don't use it at this time. I know it will be used with the CoCo XT. BU, would there be an addressing problem in using the XT with the 3in1 board? This stuff isn't really my bag, but it appears that the 3in1 is memory mapped from $FF51 through $FF57. Maybe this stuff has already bben worked out, maybe there never was a problem, eather way, I'd sure like your input. By the way I run under OS-9 exclusivly. Also is the patch for ccheck somewhere on here? >Lute< There is 1 Reply. #: 7591 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 06:59:44 Sb: #7581-#hard drive Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 (X) Why not just trade in your 3in1 interface for a 4in1 from Disto and use a SCSI hard disk? That way you won't have to clutter up your desk with the MPI. There is 1 Reply. #: 7630 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 21-Oct-90 16:06:57 Sb: #7591-hard drive Fm: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 To: David Betz 76704,47 I would if it were only that easy. Not many coco people around here, so it's not real easy to get rid of things like a 3in1. However that was my very first idea. >Lute< #: 7585 S15/Hot Topics 20-Oct-90 00:48:46 Sb: #Atlanta Fest? Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 To: [F] Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 So, now that everybody has kissed (?) and made up, I have a question. Just what was at the 'fest? Some of us didn't make it to Atlanta. I take it there was some neat stuff from the conversation that has been going on, but would somebody please tell me what IMS, FHL, and Delmar actually had? Thanks a lot! --Colin There is 1 Reply. #: 7595 S15/Hot Topics 20-Oct-90 09:31:29 Sb: #7585-#Atlanta Fest? Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X) Colin, As I, too, came away a bit confused (is Kev's mini review in error?), maybe each of the pricipals, Frank, Ed and Paul, would post _their own_ impressions of the fest and what was going on in their booths. Nothing like getting it from the horses ....ahhh...err..hmmm.... mouth. Yeah ... that's the ticket! Steve There is 1 Reply. #: 7603 S15/Hot Topics 20-Oct-90 12:23:04 Sb: #7595-Atlanta Fest? Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X) Yeah, a report of what was going on in thier OWN booths! (Sorry, couldn't resist! Heh heh heh) ;-) --Colin #: 7593 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 07:45:08 Sb: #chips for 512K upgrades Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: all What kind of memory chips do the 512K CoCo upgrades require? I've got a bunch of 41256-12 chips laying around. Is there an upgrade that they will fit into? I assume it would be cheaper to buy just the board and plug in the chips myself. There are 2 Replies. #: 7604 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 13:22:08 Sb: #7593-chips for 512K upgrades Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Disto, and perhaps others, sell 512K boards with no RAM for those who want to supply their own. I don't know what chips would go in them, so I don't know whether the 41256-12 chips you have will work. #: 7614 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 22:45:39 Sb: #7593-#chips for 512K upgrades Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: David Betz 76704,47 (X) Dave - I'm pretty sure 41256-12's will work just fine. Sounds like the correct chip number to me (and 120ns is perfect). There is 1 Reply. #: 7620 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo) 20-Oct-90 23:34:15 Sb: #7614-chips for 512K upgrades Fm: David Betz 76704,47 To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X) Thanks. I guess I just need an unpopulated board then. I'm getting close to having a working system. Thanks for your help. #: 7600 S6/Applications 20-Oct-90 10:01:46 Sb: #cron help Fm: Ted Miller 76545,457 To: 76703,4230 (X) Hello Pete; I recently downloaded your cron utility and have experienced a problem with it. I made a simple test crontab file and put it in both /dd/sys and /r0/sys directories as per instructions. Then when I invoke cron (cron -l&) it starts fine and a proc shows it running. However when cron first wakes up to read crontab it errors out and exits. A listing of /dd/log/cronerrs shows cron error: cannot open /r0/sys/crontab. My crontab file consists of "30 * * * * list startup>/p&". What am I doing wrong? BTW I am using a Coco 3 with 512k and normally startup with gshell. Ident for cron: Header for: Cron Module size: $038D #909 Module CRC: $CAF6EF (Good) Hdr parity: $A3 Exec. off: $00A4 #164 Data Size: $0200 #512 Edition: $05 #5 Ty/La At/Rv: $11 $84 Prog mod, 6809 obj, re-en, R/O Hope you can shed some light Ted Miller There are 2 Replies. #: 7609 S6/Applications 20-Oct-90 20:03:38 Sb: #7600-#cron help Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Ted Miller 76545,457 (X) Nothing jumps out at me.... are there other problems like a shortage of system RAM? Too many open paths? Do you have the latest version of CRON from here? Also, try running with just a /dd/sys/crontab file (or just an /r0/sys/crontab)... Pete #: 7622 S6/Applications 21-Oct-90 03:21:14 Sb: #7600-#cron help Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 To: Ted Miller 76545,457 (X) Hi Ted! I'm using 'cron' on a regular basis. I did an ident on my copy and it is different from yours. Size is 0378 and the CRC is D7AB49. This is different than what you reported. Your hardware setup is similar to mine but I use shell+ rather than Gshell but I can't see that would make a difference. Hopefully, if Pete sees this, he can check to see if the correct version is posted. And Pete, I've used several of your programs and they are *GREAT*. Very happy with them. Ed #: 7601 S1/General Interest 20-Oct-90 10:15:09 Sb: weird address? Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 To: All Folks, What with all the chatter going on about Mark's UUCP port, I've passed on a few of the message to him. In turn, Mark felt compelled to reply to a couple. They're posted under my User ID, however his signature is in both. I hope this doesn't confuse anybody. Mark's efforts with the UUCP port were tremendous and deserve proper attention. It's unfortunate that it was necessary for him to temporarily leave the OS9 Forum neighborhood at this particular time, but we'll do our best keeping him posted. Steve #: 7607 S15/Hot Topics 20-Oct-90 15:51:53 Sb: #info Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 To: ALL I hope that the recent exchange of zaps, reprimands, and apologies will not put a damper on the flow of information about ALL of the new 68k machines that has appeared here. Keep writing guys. I get on here several times a week to look for ANY information about the new stuff. I saw a suggestion from Kevin that messages from company reps be identified as such - that sounds fair. As far as "damaging comments", does anybody REALLY accept what the FORD salesman says about CHEVY's as gospel? The FORD guy knows in his heart that he has the best car in the world. If you want to know about CHEVY's, you ask the CHEVY guy, right? After all, a truly objective salesman would probably starve. So, keep answering all the questions as best you can, please. I have read just about every message in this section since it started, and I'm sure a lot of others have too. HMMM, there's a thought. I wonder if CIS has a way of counting how many times a message is read (like "accesses #" in the LIB's). JohnW JohnW There is 1 Reply. #: 7619 S15/Hot Topics 20-Oct-90 23:05:16 Sb: #7607-info Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X) >I wonder if CIS has a way of counting how many times a message is read (like >"accesses #" in the LIB's). Not as far as I know, JohnW.... though it'd certainly be nice to have, sometimes. Wayne #: 7608 S3/Languages 20-Oct-90 19:55:30 Sb: #RMA woes Fm: Richard Ries 76057,3534 To: All I am trying to write a subroutine for BASIC09 using the RMA. It simply causes the screen to "BEEP". Unfortunately, it dumps me out of BASIC09 into OS-9 when I am finished. Any help would be greatly appreciated! The Listing isI$Write equ $8A F$Exit equ $06 psect beep,$21,$81,0,0,start start: leax char,pc lda #1 ldy #1 OS9 I$Write clrb OS9 F$Exit * Using RTS has the same effect char: fcb $07 endsect Thanks, Rich There are 3 Replies. #: 7611 S3/Languages 20-Oct-90 20:06:44 Sb: #7608-RMA woes Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 To: Richard Ries 76057,3534 Richard - F$EXIT would assuredly blow you back to os9... that's voluntary termination. How are you interfacing with the routine (i.e. what caling convention are you using)? There are some rules in the B09 (and C) manuals regarding interfacing to external modules... Pete #: 7621 S3/Languages 21-Oct-90 01:37:01 Sb: #7608-RMA woes Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 To: Richard Ries 76057,3534 Rich - basic09 subroutines are, well, subroutines... not programs. That's the key. Basic09/runb executes a subroutine like it was part of its own code. Therefore your F$Exit was actually run by basic09 and so basic09 exited. I know you said "rts" didn't work... dunno why. Worked here with the same program for me: psect beep,$21,$81,revs,0,0,entry I$Write equ $8A F$Exit equ $06 entry leax char,pc lda #1 ldy #1 os9 I$Write clrb rts char fcb $07 ends ******************* PROCEDURE Beeptest RUN beep END However, you'll need guidance on passing parameters when you get to that kind of thing... let me know. - kev #: 7624 S3/Languages 21-Oct-90 11:05:03 Sb: #7608-RMA woes Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 To: Richard Ries 76057,3534 Why not just use RUN gfx2("BELL")? #: 7610 S1/General Interest 20-Oct-90 20:04:20 Sb: OS9 Info Fm: Rodney Harper 75130,1321 To: all I have been fooling with OS9 now for a year, and am now using it almost 100% of time that I am on my COCO. I have a few questions that I would like to throw out in the field. I subscribe to Nine-Times magazine on Disk, I really like it, but is there any other OS9 Magazines out there ? Besides Rainbow ? What is the OS9 Users Group ? Thanks.... >>Rod<< #: 7612 S3/Languages 20-Oct-90 22:14:35 Sb: Cross Compiler Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451 To: 76703,4230 Pete - you remember Fred Fierling? He is looking for a cross compiler that would run under unix and produce code for a 68000 series chip suitable for embedded applications. I dont think the embedded applications will use OS9. could you leave me your UNIX email address (he now has a Usenet feed) or phone number or give him a call at (604) 879-8004. Tnx #: 7613 S1/General Interest 20-Oct-90 22:29:47 Sb: The Week in Review Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: All The recent discussions between various participants in the newest round of OS-9 hardware development has been, to say the least, distressing to many folks. Never before in the history of this forum have I received as many requests from forum members to "do something". If it appears as if we, the forum's SYSOPs, just sat back and waited for things to take their natural course... your perception is right. That really was the only way things would be able to work out so that everyone felt that they got a fair shake. I, or any of the SYSOPS, could have moved any or all of the messages out of public view. We could have delted the message. We could have asked everyone to hold out their hands while we got the rulers out (those of you who attended Catholic schools will know what I mean!). We didn't, and because we allowed the conversations to progress, both on the forum and (thankfully for the outcome) offline as well, everyone looks like they're friends again, or at least plan on being civil to each other in an attempt to serve the OS-9 community with factual and appropriate comments about their own hardware, leaving the OS-9 user to make up his own mind about who is, or is not, the "good guy". Now, in an effort to help prevent something like this from happening in the future, we're shuffling the sections around a little bit to provide a private section where OS-9 vendors (hardware and/or software) can talk amongst themselves. We've moved the messages and the library files from the Atari ST section into the general OS9/68000 (OSK) section, at least for the next while, and Section 13 has been assigned to OS-9 Vendors. Unlucky 13? Only if it's not used! And to all, a little reminder that we always want forum members to feel free to express themselves almost however they want. The exceptions are personal attacks on anyone which never serve any good purpose and tend to alienate so many folks (as was demonstrated again over the last few days!). Thanks to all for making and keeping this forum the OS-9 community's best foot forward! Wayne Day forum manager #: 7615 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors 20-Oct-90 22:52:06 Sb: #New Vendor's Section Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: All The OS-9 Forum has established Section 13 - OS9/OSK Vendors - as a semi-private meeting ground for both hardware and software vendors who are servicing the OS-9 community. Admission to this section is by invitation of the Forum Manager or his designated Associate SYSOP only. It is important to note that invitations to participate in this section will be extended to established companies, and not individual persons. A company may name any person they choose to represent them in this section, but should remember that the person named will be assumed to be an official spokesman for the company. Only one person per company will be allowed access to this section. That person shall act as the information dispersal point within his company, and shall funnel information from within that company into the section. Messages to and from company employees/associates who are not active in the section shall be clearly marked as such within the body of the message. An invitation to participate in this section will be issued to any established who applies for an invitation. A company will be considered to be "established" if they (a) have advertised an OS-9 based product in a nationally circulated publication within the last 6 months or (b) have an OS-9 product under development and can document to the SYSOP that the company has a business license/sales permit/tax permit for doing business in its state of domicile, and that such OS-9 product will be released to the market within 6 months. [continued in first reply] There is 1 Reply. #: 7616 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors 20-Oct-90 22:53:50 Sb: #7615-New Vendor's Section Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376 To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X) [continued from 7615] Any other company who desires to be represented in this section, but who feels that they may not meet the criteria listed above may request exemption from those requirements, presenting whatever evidence they deem appropriate. Any company who desires access to this Section shall request same in a message to *SYSOP on the forum, or through CompuServe mail to : Wayne Day 76703,376, or via the US Mail to: Wayne Day, Golden Triangle Corporation, P O Box 79074 Fort Worth, TX, 76179-0074. Telephone calls will not be accepted as requests for access! Each request shall be from the president/owner/CEO of the company and shall state that the company agrees to the rules of participation in the section, as stated above. We are instituting these rules not to keep anyone "deserving" out. It's not even to keep "new" folks out. It IS to make sure that everyone who participates in this section is a bona fide vendor! If you have any questions about the new Vendor's Section, eligibility requirements, or how to gain access, please feel free to ask me in a message here on the forum! Wayne Day forum manager PS: This new section will be available to everyone for the first two weeks, in order to get the word spread around. After that, at a date to be announced by the SYSOP, it will become accessible to only those companies who have requested access. #: 7626 S7/Telecommunications 21-Oct-90 14:53:20 Sb: upload prices Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: 74030,332 Newsgroups: compuserve.os9.comm Subject: Re: reply to 7431 References: [Appologies for the silly message titles of my previous batch of replies, I assumed that if you can upload a message, and can reply to a message, that you should be able to upload a reply to a message. Compuserve doesn't follow that logic, so this isn't a reply as far as they are conserned.] In article 74030.332@compuserve.com (Mark Wuest) writes: >$0.25/hour is a *LOT* cheaper than any other network, be it Telenet, Tymenet, >Accunet, AT&T long distance or Sprint or MCI. (Compuserve has raised their upload rates to $.30/hour.) At 1500 bps kermit long packets v.22bis mnp4, compuserve uploads are about $.55/megabyte, ignoring the time at $.21/min charged for the per file setup and the monthly account maintance fee. Compserve is designed assuming there is a human available to respond when each file is transfered, so add about $20/hour for my time. At 12000 bps uucp PEP, UUNET uploads and downloads are about $2.00/megabyte (nightime 800), ignoring per-call (not per message) setup time, monthly account maintance, and assuming you pay bills resonably promptly. If you are working with compressable files, it will be cheaper. (PEP is 14.4 kbps max before compression.) UUCP is designed for computer to computer transfers, it can be done automaticly at any convient (for the computers) time. The incramental cost of data over the NSFnet section of the Internet is virtually non-existant. (It uses fixed-cost links, enough volume will require a higher-bandwidth higher-priced link.) Since I do have such access at no cost to me via a local (no incramental cost) phone call from home, it costs me nothing to send and receive files via the Internet or usenet. I do so using v.32 mnp4, and am getting about 4500 bps on kermit. > Shoot, it's so much cheaper, it's almost as if they are paying *you* > to upload ! Somehow, this logic slips by me. #: 7627 S7/Telecommunications 21-Oct-90 14:54:43 Sb: #uploading Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: 76703,376 Newsgroups: compuserve.os9.comm Subject: Re: reply to 7431 References: In article 76703.376@compuserve.com (Wayne Day) writes: >If the $0.25/hour is the only stumbling block to your uploading >something, let us know. Not realy. It's more my time, compuserve's poor support of kermit, (which has improved sometime in the past couple of years since I last tried it), and the principal of the matter. > We'll either send you a couple of quarters, Give them to Mark Griffith, he apperently needs them more. >If you can't see using a CompuServe proprietary protocol that gives a >significant improvement in throughput over any other protocol currently in use, Kermit sliding windows long packets is about 15% slower than theoreticly possible. (Binary files, faster on ascii.) Zmodem is about 1% slower than theoreticly possible. When compuserve supports Zmodem, I'll consider porting rz and sz to osk. As far as I know, B+ is slower than Zmodem. I think compuserve is wasting it's own resorces and it's customers money inventing yet another file transfer protocol. I frequently use a kermit implementation done by one of compuserve's compeditors, who invented the sliding-window enhancement as a way around the inherent limitations of an x.25 network. v.32 (9600 baud) modems are now available under $500. Good brands that also support v.42bis compression are under $650. It is time for compuserve to plan hardware upgrades. I recomend watching the usenet newsgroup comp.os.os9 if you want access to my software as it becomes available. Small os9 specific things get posted directly there (which means they arn't archived unfortuanatle), other things are available from comp.sources.misc, comp.sources.unix, the columbia kermit archives, etc. with postings on comp.os.os9 pointing them out. I've never posted anything there with a restriction that would prevent you from uploading it to compuserve. There is 1 Reply. #: 7629 S7/Telecommunications 21-Oct-90 15:17:43 Sb: #7627-uploading Fm: James Jones 76257,562 To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 rz and sz have already been ported to OS-9/68000. I haven't looked closely at the source, but it exists. #: 7628 S7/Telecommunications 21-Oct-90 14:56:03 Sb: #uucp Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 To: all Newsgroups: compuserve.os9.comm Subject: Re: UUCP frustrations References: [I've also sent this message to Mark Griffith via Internet/bitnet gateway.] In article 76703.4255@compuserve.com (Steve Wegert) writes: >I'm sorry you found the UUCP port not to your liking. I believe I did mention >a couple times that this was the OS9/6809 port. I am quite willing to start from os9/6809 source code, and that was what I expected. The announcments on compuserve made no mention of it being 6809 specific or object code only. (The header displayed by the browse command did mention it, but I knew I wanted UUCP for my machine, so I didn't look there before downloading.) >As for the lack of source code....I thought about this a lot and decided that >the need to keep some control over the source and the port outweighed the >desire to upload them. I guess I've just never felt this "need to keep control". Modified versions should be labled as such, but that does not mean they should not be distributed. > I think this is resonable given the year I spent doing >the port and the time and money spent testing, talking to beta testers, etc. I've spent lots of time on some pretty big projects too. Beleive me, mg 2a beta testing on 8 different operating systems was non-trivial. (+1 if you count cpm/68k which was given up on fairly early, -1 if you don't count msdos which missed the release deadline and was added after.) > As I mentioned in the docs, anyone wanting the source code just needs to > drop me a line and include $5 for the cost of the disk and postage. There is no such mention in the supplied documentation. (Yes, I did read it.) If I had you would have your $5 by now. The copyright file requires such a notice, but there is none. >I also question your mentioning viruses. Since I nor anyone I know has seen or >heard of an OS9 virus, I think it kinda unresonable for you to suggest that I >might put one in the upload. I do not believe you would INTENTIONALY spread a virus. Do you believe Press !>